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Thread: Minimalist 1.4.1 and T3EnhancED Thread

  1. #251
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    There are holy water arrows in the MP?
    lol You know, it has been so long that I can't even remember if I managed to get holy water arrows working in MP. I thought I didn't, but maybe I did....although something tells me I was only able to do it in T3EnhancED.

    I've toyed with the idea of releasing another version of Minimalist, one based on all the T3EnhancEd changes...but the motivation has been hard to come by. Maybe some day.

  2. #252
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Thta's exactly what I thought, a T3EnhancEd thing, I cannot remember having any holy water arrows the last time I played TDS with MP.

  3. #253
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    Thta's exactly what I thought, a T3EnhancEd thing, I cannot remember having any holy water arrows the last time I played TDS with MP.
    Yep, I'm certain I could only do it as an editor enhancement. It required gamesys changes, scripting, the whole sha'bang.

  4. #254
    IronEagle
    Guest

    nice

    nice work

  5. #255
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2011

    Minimalist Mod Usertweaks

    Great work indeed!

    I "re-discovered" my copy in a dark and dusty corner behind/under my closet (I was actually looking for it since I read about a possible 4th part of the series.) Of course I had to immediately install it since my pc-specs have changed more often than I care to remember since I played it shortly after it came out.

    I knew it wasn't going to be blazing eye-candy with the slightly outdated engine but the vanilla graphics and textures were just unbearable IMO. Back then I didn't bother to look for mods or stuff but now I do because I know how much they may add gameplay/gfx-wise.

    Hmm, quite the waffle there... anyhow I have John P.'s marvelous Texture Pack plus the Minimalist-Mod 1.4.1. installed and they work quite well together. Both combined really add to immersion and visual quality. (I do buy the notion of you giving Eidos extra sales )

    Still I found the removal the MechEyeOverlay-Texture and sounds a pity since it added quite some immersion IMHO.
    No biggie, I thought and started fiddling with the mecheye-settings a bit.

    I brought back the zoom-sounds by "hexediting" the SchemaMetafile_HardDrive.csc
    in \CONTENT\T3\Sounds\. You will have to search for stringtext that says "eye" or better "echanical". The "M" that formerly belonged in front of "echanical" were replaced by underscores { _ }, just revert the underscores back to "m" and the zoom-sounds are re-enabled.
    There should be four relevant entries you need to change. Remember you are using a hexeditor, in the wrong hands it may cause quite some trouble.

    And since the standard filter-settings for the mech-eye-overlay were simply eye-cancer-inducing I had to change them to my liking, too. I tried to document the functions as well as I could but honestly my scripting/coding expertise is surpassed by yoghurt. So after I started tweaking I ended up tweaking more than i was playing.
    To change settings look for the DEFAULT.ini in your \Thief - Deadly Shadows\System folder and search for:

    Code:
    [CameraOverlays]
    EnableCameraOverlays=TRUE ;was False
    CameraOverlay_0__t=MechEyeOverlay
    
    [MechEyeOverlay] -> white, broad scan-lines running from top to bottom, medium/fine grain
    ;Texture=BotBaseOverlay.dds ;not in use/disfunctional (employs very bright backgound?)
    Texture=VisionBiomodBaseOverlay.dds ;actual filter that is applied during zoom
    Tint_R=0.96 ;colorscale in percent of red-filter
    Tint_G=1.00 ;colorscale in percent of green-filter
    Tint_B=0.98 ;colorscale in percent of blue-filter ;1.0 equals 100 percent
    Tint_Ratio=0.25 ;function not clearly visible
    
    PanRate_Y=-0.35 ;speed of vertical scan-lines ;negatives go from TOP to BOTTOM & vice versa
    ScaleMin_Y=4.5 ;defines the the minium y-scale for "scan-lines" in zoomed-mode
    ScaleMax_Y=5.5 ;defines the the maximum y-scale for "scan-lines" zoomed-mode; large thresholds equal less defined edges for scan-lines ;amount defines the size of scan-lines; smaller numbers make broader scan-lines
    
    PanRate_X=-0.5 ;couldn't specify function, neither influences noise nor scan-lines
    ScaleMin_X=4.5 ;apparently not used in {Texture=VisionBiomodBaseOverlay.dds}
    ScaleMax_X=5.5 ;apparently not used in {Texture=VisionBiomodBaseOverlay.dds} ;suspect to make scan-lines move in a horizontal manner ;doesn't activate even if PanRate_y etc. are commented out
    
    
    NoiseMin_X=16.0 ;defines the minimum x-scale for "tv-grain" in eye-overlay
    NoiseMin_Y=16.0 ;defines the minimum y-scale for "tv-grain" in eye-overlay
    NoiseMax_X=24.0 ;defines the maximum x-scale for "tv-grain" in eye-overlay
    NoiseMax_Y=24.0 ;defines the maximum Y-scale for "tv-grain" in eye-overlay ;noisemin/max controls size as well as spread/movement of "tv-grain" ;too small thresholds equal little to no movement ;smaller numbers make for bigger grain 
    
    Fullbright=False ;true=full lightmaps on all textures ;false=environmental lightmaps are applied to textures ;doesn't seem to work properly
    
    Gamma=2.25 ;defines the gammasetting for zoomed-mode ;very high values may lead to a IMO unpleasant shift in colors to a green-ish scale
    
    ;FOV=100 ;suspect to work in conjuction with {Texture=BotBaseOverlay.dds}? ;otherwise view is locked at the given  angle
    So much for documentation... I had to do quite a lot of Trial&Error to get a result that I found pleasing. Again: backup the files you are editing or copy/paste & save the sections you edit in a adequate place like texteditor of sorts...

    Code:
    [MechEyeOverlay]
    Texture=VisionBiomodBaseOverlay.dds
    Tint_R=0.04
    Tint_G=0.92
    Tint_B=0.35
    Tint_Ratio=1.0
    PanRate_Y=-0.4
    ScaleMin_Y=16.0
    ScaleMax_Y=17.0
    PanRate_X=0.0
    ScaleMin_X=0.0
    ScaleMax_X=0.0
    NoiseMin_X=16.5
    NoiseMin_Y=16.5
    NoiseMax_X=21.5
    NoiseMax_Y=21.5
    Fullbright=False
    Gamma=2.15
    
    another optional setting i found rather nice was:
    
    [MechEyeOverlay]
    Texture=VisionBiomodBaseOverlay.dds
    Tint_R=0.04
    Tint_G=0.92
    Tint_B=0.35
    Tint_Ratio=1.0
    PanRate_Y=-0.4
    ScaleMin_Y=2.5
    ScaleMax_Y=3.5
    PanRate_X=0.0
    ScaleMin_X=0.0
    ScaleMax_X=0.0
    NoiseMin_X=15.5
    NoiseMin_Y=15.5
    NoiseMax_X=23.5
    NoiseMax_Y=23.5
    Fullbright=True
    Gamma=2.25
    That's a green tint for the zoom and I understand not everybody appreciates the same colorscheme but I trust you will manage to set up RGB in percentages somehow.

    The upper version is thin/medium scanlines, the latter one are very broad scan-lines appearing to be only a few dark scan-lines.
    Noise-Filter-Effect is displayed as fine/medium grain in both versions, though the latter one has bigger (better visible) grain that still remains fairly defined, meaning it doesn't blur out so bad it makes your eyes bleed.

    The lines I removed didn't seem to be in use by the engine, so I assume they can be deleted without any repercussions on the T3 install. Can't hurt to back up your default DEFAULT.ini in order to be able to revert to standard.

    Gamma-settings may be too high/low for some users since that pretty much depends on the user's end so altering might be in place. I altered the contrast-settings of my picture which is rather of cosmetic nature but i found it strange I couldn't adjust contrast & gamma aswell as brightness and my settings make the scenery quite more vivid at least on my old crappy 17" CRT.
    Also found in the DEFAULT.ini.

    Code:
    [GammaBrightnessContrastList]
    GammaMin=0.70
    GammaMax=2.0
    BrightnessMin=0.75
    BrightnessMax=2.0
    ContrastMin=0.5
    ContrastMax=2.25
    I think that's all... nope...

    My machine had the problem with choppy performance in some areas, too. My rig is well capable of running the Unreal 2 engine and John P.'s Texture Pack shouldn't put that much of a strain on my pc.

    I found several suggestions about turning VSync off and I think it does work. I had horrible performance in areas with water or "moving" static objects such as the Hammerite Factory, dropping from a nice clamped 45 FPS to a sluggish 7-15 FPS in those areas.
    The thing here is, it wasn't quite enough for me to disbale VSync in-game. Open your DEFAULT.ini and look for:

    Code:
    [T3OptionsDefaults]
    VSynch__x=0
    VSynch__p=0
    I changed both values to equal zero (turning it off). I can only suspect that VSynch_x is for Xbox and VSynch_p is for PC.
    I had my VSynch disabled in-game, still crappy, laggy and not goodsies! Then I checked the values in the .ini and found the VSynch_p=1.
    I suspect the in-game options-menu only overwrites the Xbox-Vsync but leaves the PC alone.
    Seemed to do the trick for me, all is well, running smooth @ 1600x1200.

    Maybe someone will find this info useful.
    I see that the Minimalist Mod is a discontinued project, still I value it highly and found further documentation couldn't hurt too much. (Is there a full documentation for what the function of the particular line is?)

    Add: First post and I'm kinda thread-necromancing. Good thing it's stickied

    Have a good one,

    Saro

    Edit: I also changed Garret's default walkspeed to be walking instead of running. To do this look for your saved game folder: \Thief - Deadly Shadows\SaveGames\User Options and change the useroptions.ini to look like this:

    Code:
    W=MoveForwardBackward 0.550000
    S=MoveForwardBackward -0.550000
    D=StrafeRightLeft 0.450000
    A=StrafeRightLeft -0.450000
    Additionally you should change the walk/creepmutlipliers in your DEFAULT.ini...

    Code:
    WalkMultiplier=1.45
    CreepMultiplier=0.35
    ...walkmultiplier is my "sprintkey" now, creep has been downtuned a bit compared to Minimalist Mod whereas Garret should run a bit faster and still not straight outrun his enemies... also it's way more convenient with that set up to plainly walk around with the mechanical eye activated without cramping your fingers on three different keys...
    (Running is sooo uncool...)

    Another question: I turned on the 3rd-person camera on again in the T3Camera.ini, is there anything else that Minimalist Mod changes in the behaviour of the camera? since i sometimes can see Garret from 3rd person and sometimes the game just refuses to go into 3rd person when I press the corresponding button.

    Thx 4 reading ...
    Last edited by Saro; 14th Apr 2011 at 08:22. Reason: Addendum

  6. #256
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    About the last thing: 3rd person isn't available while aiming with the bow and sometimes in narrow spaces when the camera doesn't leave Garrett's head by much. Otherwise, no idea, but thanks for all the work.

  7. #257
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2011

    Minimalist Mod Usertweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    About the last thing: 3rd person isn't available while aiming with the bow and sometimes in narrow spaces when the camera doesn't leave Garrett's head by much. Otherwise, no idea, but thanks for all the work.
    You're always welcome. I actually intended to change it just for myself.
    But since I had found a tweak to get rid of the crappy FPS in places I thought it might be postworthy. Many threads that dealt with the performance issue didn't explain the process of turning off Vsynch thoroughly enough. I guess nobody really cares for an old game anymore...

    About the camera... Is it in a vanilla install of T3 the same? Are there spaces in which you cannot see Garret from a third person perspective? I don't really know since I haven't played T3 without mods so far. And I can't quite remember from back in the day when it came out, nor do I mind to reinstall it just to see whether it was true...

    Those are my T3camera.ini settings for the 3rd person:

    Code:
    CameraMode ThirdPerson
    	LookAt Actor
    	SpinWith Stick
    	AnchorOffset ActorHeight 0.50
    	Stiffness 0.80
    	PitchLimit 55 -75
    	YawLimit 0 0
    	Distance 5
    	DollySpeedForwardBackward 10 6
    EndCameraMode
    
    CameraMode WallCam
    	InheritsFrom ThirdPerson
    	YawLimit 0 0
    	Distance 5
    EndCameraMode

    Those are basically the vanilla settings I plainly copy pasted back to original values.
    It might be just that the Pagan Tunnels don't work to well with the standard settings, I'll check that later...

    Have good one,

    Saro

    Update: Camera-settings do seem to work. It might be you have to reload your map from the beginning to make it work properly. Even worked in quite narrow spaces like the starting area of "Pagan Tunnels" mission. I just gazed at Garret's (green) mechanical eye from 3rd person, looks nice.

    Can anyone maybe tell me what RGB the 3rd person perspective uses for his eye? Or where I can look for it myself?
    Last edited by Saro; 11th Apr 2011 at 20:16. Reason: Edit, Update Report

  8. #258
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Has anyone tested this with the recent widescreen patch?

  9. #259
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Assuming you mean The Minimalist Project in combination with the patch linked to below: It works for the most part, if you install it something like this:

    • Install Minimalist
    • Install the Sneaky Upgrade. This will undo the changes to the exe done by the Minimalist installer, so...
    • Use this tweak tool to change frob colour and get rid of loot percentage again. It has to be that version, you can't use the one bundled with TDS Tweaker. (But you can replace the bundled version with the new one, then it will work)
    • Make sure all the settings in the Tweaks section of the SneakyUpgrade.ini file are commented out

    Some issues remain:

    • If you play in widescreen the custom menu will be cropped, so the text will be misaligned
    • One of the Minimalist HUDs uses a custom font, which is not supported
    • At least with one of the HUDs, picked up junk items appear in a slightly strange position on the screen

    The next version of the patch (coming in a few months, hopefully) will have better support. At the very least the menu cropping will be fixed. Full support is on the to-do list, unfortunately there's a lot of stuff on that list...
    The Sneaky Upgrade - widescreen and tweaks patch for Thief 3

  10. #260
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Wouldn't it be easier to include the changes of the MP et alii into the Sneaky Upgrade than vice versa? That is, if we finally find out about the more deep changes like the tweaked movement...

  11. #261
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    I think the two projects mostly complement each other. The main purpose of the Upgrade is to make playing T3 (and FMs!) on modern computers a painless experience, the tweaks are really an afterthought.

    That said there's certainly an overlap where Minimalist features have general appeal, and I'd love to have e.g. loot glint tweaks in the Upgrade. But time is limited, and for the time being the best solution is to get the two projects to co-exist nicely.
    The Sneaky Upgrade - widescreen and tweaks patch for Thief 3

  12. #262
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2009
    Location: Turkey
    How can I revert back to default - silent creeping??..would you please tell me which files need to be configured?

  13. #263
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    It's not necessarily changeable through simple text editing, but if it is, then you can probably find the answer in the tweaks thread.
    The Sneaky Upgrade - widescreen and tweaks patch for Thief 3

  14. #264
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I'm pretty sure I changed it for my FM with ini tweaks (cannot say, though, if done manually or copied from the MP). However, I wasn't able to find it right there. Maybe New Horizon knows.

  15. #265
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2009
    Location: Turkey
    Hmm...but apparently,New Horizon doesn't seem to be visiting this topic anymore..I'll try sending a PM if that tweaks thread doesn't provide a solution..thank you folks..

  16. #266
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    When I install new version of minimalist project, the fonts in main menu are horrible, mouse look is too fast, and there is no option for changing mouse speed. Is it because I have Polish version of the game or what?

  17. #267
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I cannot give you clear instructions without having a closer look myself, but:
    1. It has nothing to do with language versions. The MP tackles the mission files (gmp/ibt) and ini files to make its changes and there should be nothing really language-related in that (language stuff is in some ini sections and mostly *.sch schema files).
    2. The fonts are made smaller to avoid the big xBox/TV look that PC gamers hate. I don't know if it looks weird with some characters used for Polish language, but otherwise it's a standard Thief font and was chosen for that.
    3. The mouse look was one of the things to compensate for the strange body awareness issues when controlling Garrett. I believe there is a ini hack for that (look for one of those huge lists of TDS ini tweaks here on the forum or via Google) so you could decrease its effect after having installed MP. Strictly speaking the fonts could be changed this way, too, but that is quite a bit of work. You'll find instructions in the ini tweaks or on this forum, though.

  18. #268
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Since I no longer have all of the source files I can't do any 'proper' updates without rebuilding the entire Minimalist Project, however I've found a way to do some minor updates and inject them into the .exe file. Been a lot of complaints about the AI difficulty with Minimalist, so I'm going to release a minor update to fix that issue. I might see if I can tweak anything else, but if not I'll have the update posted in a day or two.

  19. #269
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    That's great news. I wonder, though, if we can finally combine all the TDS tweaks into one (except for maybe JohnP textures, that might be difficult for reasons of size). Snobel and I already discussed whether or not to include the combined TDS levels into the Sneaky Upgrade; and this would probably require tweaking all other ibt-altering patches as well like your MP or the JohnP textures.

  20. #270
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    That's great news. I wonder, though, if we can finally combine all the TDS tweaks into one (except for maybe JohnP textures, that might be difficult for reasons of size). Snobel and I already discussed whether or not to include the combined TDS levels into the Sneaky Upgrade; and this would probably require tweaking all other ibt-altering patches as well like your MP or the JohnP textures.
    Turns out it doesn't work. The installer for Minimalist was written by John.P with NSIS installer scripting language. I would have to learn the scripting language and rebuild the entire script from scratch, adding hundreds of files to the script by hand. I've always wanted to know how to write an installer by hand, but I simply don't know if I have the time. I've got two jobs and a kid..so..

  21. #271
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    NH, how do you feel about the MP being absorbed by a 'fat' version of the Sneaky Upgrade? As Beleg mentions this would also include the 'Gold' (merged levels + classic briefing movies) mod. Each mod would get a 'middle layer', similar to NewDark's mod_path, so you can switch them on or off easily and play FMs on top of each mod. Whether they can be combined remains to be figured out, the block file format is somewhat inflexible...

    It should be relatively easy to recreate the patches by comparing a MP installation to an original installation of the game. I'd try to provide the same installer options, but some stuff, like removing the loot percentage, would be implemented as a general tweak. I could also try to make a difficulty modifier tweak, for players who find it too hard.

    In any case this is a long term project, but with your permission I can at least look into it.

    Edit: Permission obtained by PM.
    Last edited by snobel; 28th Apr 2013 at 10:22.
    The Sneaky Upgrade - widescreen and tweaks patch for Thief 3

  22. #272
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2013
    does this work with the Sneaky Upgrade or are there any problems or a specific way that I must install them to get them both to work together?

  23. #273
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    It's in the Sneaky Upgrade readme:

    Does it work with the Minimalist Project?
    Surprisingly well, as long as no GUI tweaks are in use.
    If you install the alternative menu background, then the text will be off in widescreen.
    Install Minimalist first, then the Upgrade, then use TDS Tweaker to reapply the loot percentage and frob colour tweaks
    If you want the loot percentage and frob colour tweaks, then be sure to read this post, because only the updated version of Myagi's patcher will work. (Previous versions would actually slightly corrupt the executable.) You can use it either directly or with TDS Tweaker as described.

    In about a week a new SU will be out, which will show the MP menu correctly. It also has a built-in tweak for the loot percentage - but not yet for the frob colour.

    I now have New Horizon's permission to include MP stuff, so at some point you'll hopefully just have to tick a box in the SU installer...
    The Sneaky Upgrade - widescreen and tweaks patch for Thief 3

  24. #274
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Thank you so much for making this Mod!

    This great program along with John P's texture pack has allowed me to enjoy Deadly Shadows a lot more.

    Deadly Shadows is how I got into the Thief series, and I loved it to bits, that is until I played Thief I and II....after that I couldn't bring myself to play DS again

    But this Minimalist project brings back some of the visual flair of the Looking Glass titles, and greatly improves the more flawed design choices of the game (e.g. the sluggish movement, HUD and that horrible, horrible, blue frob highlight) which must have been no small task. Hats off to New Horizon and all those involved!

    I'd highly recommend this mod to anyone considering getting it. Of course you'll have to experiment with it and fiddle around with the settings to suit your preference, but it's worth it, it made Deadly Shadows worth playing again

  25. #275
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2010
    This seems to be the thread that was posted in most recently so I figure I'd ask my question here.

    I've just installed John P's Collective Texture Pack. Will installing the Minimalist mod cause problems after having installed the high red texture pack? Both mods make changes to menus/HUD etc so will there be incompatibilities?

    One other thing. I mod games myself, i.e I make my own modifications as well as installing other peoples. Is there a guide of all the changes the minimalist mod makes and how to tweak them further or turn off or restore to defaults etc? I'm mainly referring to the changes that make the game harder such as changes to creeping.

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