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Thread: General Fan Mission Review And Discussion Megathread

  1. #851
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Melan View Post
    I'll be the dissenting voice here and say I don't like that AI model at all. The models from the first two games, low poly as they were, looked like the people who would inhabit a gritty steampunk city. This girl, on the other hand, has that creepazoid Everquest-style-generic-fantasy-meets-Realdoll look. It must be the blandness. The serving maids from TDP had more personality in much fewer polygons and only 256 colours.
    I agree with Melan. I used this Barbie once, but during the game when she appeared I felt so suddenly that I'm in the Sims or something, not in Thief If all other models would be like this then maybe would be cosy, but only this one beside a lot of originals is rather deceptive .

  2. #852
    jtr7
    Guest
    Hey, at least her hair isn't translucent so you can see her skull silhouetted underneath it. But no, the higher-poly models shouldn't be mixed in, if one can help it.

  3. #853
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7 View Post
    Hey, at least her hair isn't translucent so you can see her skull silhouetted underneath it.
    And to see sometime the starry sky under her shawl . But that's it, there is some fantasy in them .

  4. #854
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensut View Post
    I agree with Melan. I used this Barbie once, but during the game when she appeared I felt so suddenly that I'm in the Sims or something, not in Thief If all other models would be like this then maybe would be cosy, but only this one beside a lot of originals is rather deceptive .
    I do agree that having all of them be the updated models would look much better than just one - perhaps thats why she stood out so much during my playthrough.. That and its been literally years since I've played Deadly Shadows so I had no idea that it was a model from there

    I think a mission with nothing but updated models would get rid of that 'sims' effect due to them not contrasting so hard from one AI to another.

  5. #855
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by SneakyJack View Post
    I think a mission with nothing but updated models would get rid of that 'sims' effect due to them not contrasting so hard from one AI to another.
    Yes, in T3 these models look well, however there the environment is much more subtle than in T2. Otherwise this lady is useful for T2 as a target AI in an important role, in this case is good if she is differs from the others.

  6. #856
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia





    This project still alive?

  7. #857
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Looks great, but does that guy have hooves for hands?

  8. #858
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by SneakyJack View Post
    Looks great, but does that guy have hooves for hands?
    ... and living? OK, seriously, what's this project ? Interests me.

  9. #859
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by SneakyJack View Post
    The problem imho is mainly her face. It isn't the same style as traditional T1/2 meshes. Especially her eyes and her neutral facial expression.

    Lets compare with original models:



    So maybe if someone redid the face of this girl, she would fit better in the fms. Of course, her clothes too are a bit atypical...

    By the way, how the heck can I convert such T3 models into T2?? I'd love to see some of the weirder T3 monsters in T2...

  10. #860
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Upps, I think we rambled here a little bit with technical things. Let me move this lady to the Guild. Maybe somebody there can help you in editing AI models, of course after the original author's permission.
    Sorry Jack for the diversion of the thread .

  11. #861
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensut View Post
    Upps, I think we rambled here a little bit with technical things. Let me move this lady to the Guild. Maybe somebody there can help you in editing AI models, of course after the original author's permission.
    Sorry Jack for the diversion of the thread .
    Not a diversion at all, we're discussing random elements of a FM Thats what we're here for I enjoy talking about even the smallest details of missions, including of course the AI and skins!

    Potatoguy - If you are still interested I'm going to try to find time within the next couple days to knock out that tutorial you've been waiting for - I havent been ignoring you my friend. I'm glad to see you've been experimenting with images on your own

    Edit: I know I've said that a time or two already, and I wont be posting anymore reviews until I get that tutorial done. Also, I realized I use way too many emoticons, haha. Just been swamped at work and had to get caught up. Too much thief can sometimes make you get behind on deadlines, but its totally worth it!
    Last edited by SneakyJack; 9th May 2009 at 02:19.

  12. #862
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Full on Kevel's mom
    Didn't get the chance to say it before, sneakyjack, but thank you for your kind, (rather generous IMO) words regarding my two humble creations: Nostalgia and Ashes and Dust.

  13. #863
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Random_Taffer View Post
    Didn't get the chance to say it before, sneakyjack, but thank you for your kind, (rather generous IMO) words regarding my two humble creations: Nostalgia and Ashes and Dust.
    I enjoyed both missions, so thank you for hard work on them.

    I really wonder why more fan missions aren't using your "Greet Garrett when he gets close" type trigger for the AI - I really liked that and would like to see it used more often.

  14. #864
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    In most missions getting close to Garrett is something the AI should only be doing if they're about to get a thump on the head.

  15. #865
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by R Soul View Post
    In most missions getting close to Garrett is something the AI should only be doing if they're about to get a thump on the head.
    Understandable, but I'm also a big fan of neutral AI populating main city areas and in areas that are just for story purposes or character development and not just for thieving. Sometimes its fun to be able to interact and feel like more is going on than just a simple 'break in, steal x item without anyone noticing you are there' type mission - there are hundreds of those out there

    I don't expect AI to be saying "Hello Dr. Freeman" over and over on a loop like in Half Life 2, but a one time greeting to me from friendly AI is pretty neat. Then again, I'm easily entertained

  16. #866
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2008
    Location: Iceland
    It's been quiet for me lately on the taffing front, but I did shovel my way through A Servant's Life, mainly because people here kept saying it was a funny mission. I'm always up for sillyness in games, Thief being no exception. But after having played this FM, the question has to be asked: Why? Why was this FM made? Why is Garrett trying to save this wretched man? Why has Garrett suddenly become a scat burglar? Why are all of those pickupables consumable?

    I went through the entire mission waiting for the funny stuff to appear. I smiled twice playing through the whole thing, the first was when I read about the manor lord's plans for Mr. Oh Dear and then saw the actual tools ready and waiting; the second time was the factory elevator. Beyond that, nothing. "Awkward silence" describes the humour factor of this mission for me rather well. This mission isn't bad in any way (in fact, I loved the basement layout) but it's not the funfest that I thought it was. (For the record, I wasn't offended by this FM at all.) The bonus missions were more fun than the main mission itself.

    Conclusion: A mixed bag. For some, it will not live up to it's infamy. For others, it will offer far more than they ever wanted. Good thing computers can't reproduce smells...

  17. #867
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinqueecclesiensis HU
    Quote Originally Posted by Unkillable Cat View Post
    Beyond that, nothing. "Awkward silence" describes the humour factor of this mission for me rather well.
    That's my opinion as well.

  18. #868
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Great. Now I can't get back in
    About a year ago, having talked Thief up to a friend of mine, I chose to demo this mission, based on such excellent stuff as The Love Story series & Bafford's Last Stand.

    Thanks to the sledgehammer "wit" involved, that plan crashed & burned...

  19. #869
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Its definitely a mission that will turn some off, that much is certain

    I found all the feces unnecessary but the 'scenes' of the guards torturing the immortal Mr. O Dear admittedly tickled my dark humor side.

  20. #870
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    To touch on another subject that is about Fog but for discussion - how does everyone feel about actual fog in missions?

    I just recently managed to get fog working again with my video card and I've found that I liked the game more without fog.

    In alot of missions the fog seeps into buildings and makes everything look dreary inside as well - I dont know if thats supposed to happen but it started causing me to really dislike it - and I started turning fog off again.

    I dont know if its due to me not having it for years, or because of the way it makes missions look (or it could even be due to it reminding me of old crappy playstation games that relied so much on fog and 'pop in' that always annoyed me) but I think i'll only be using it when I'm taking screens for a review.

    I know for some it adds atmosphere, but for me it only added annoyance. Thoughts?

  21. #871
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Depends on the mission, depends on the fog, depends on the atmosphere being conveyed and how successful the fog is at conveying it, depends on a lot of things! If I were you I'd leave it on except for missions you particularly dislike it on. If an author has put fog on, there's usually a good reason!

  22. #872
    Moderator
    Registered: Jul 2008
    Location: shalebridgecradle.co.uk
    I understand your points SneakyJack. I don't really know the technical aspects of creating fog or how it works but I think I have seen good fog and bad fog. When it is good it is really good. I love fog and I wish I could get it working in Vista. There are some missions (both OMs and FMs) that really benefit from it. It adds so much to the atmosphere and the immersion. It can really make a huge difference at times. There are some great foggy missions out there too. Turn of the Tide comes to mind but there are plenty of others. I miss it.

  23. #873
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I really think it varies per mission.

    Even in original Thief 2 missions, sometimes it worked great and sometimes... not so much. For example, I think Life of the Party looks far better without fog -- even without the fixed fog someone released. But the very next mission, Precious Cargo, just wouldn't capture the magic the author intended without that thick rich fog blanketing the lighthouse.

    I know there's at least one mission you've reviewed so far that just plain looks wrong without fog enabled - Raid On Washout Central. The author didn't intend you to have that viewing distance and thus things like the obvious border between the landscape and the skybox and the relative visibility of textures in the distance just look completely wrong.

    Sometimes authors have composed scenes in a way where they don't want you to see certain parts of the level's geometry in their visual composition. Turning fog off is then like washing a layer of oil off the canvass of an oil painting because you prefer seeing the detail of the brick behind a row of bushes the artist painted.

    For the most part, my opinion is that you should try to present the missions as the authors intended. It's your place to review their missions, not (in my view, anyways) present their missions in a manner personally customized by you.

    You could even make sloppily implemented fog a point of criticism if you find it really distracting, or at least advise readers that you believe a particular mission looks better without fog enabled.

    And if you really, REALLY think a particular screenshot looks better without the fog, then hey, it's your review thread.

    Oh, and although I've already said it a couple times in this thread: Thank you so much for all the time and effort you've put into this project. This has really turned out be a fantastic resource for people seeking more Thief to savor!

  24. #874
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Depends on the mission, depends on the fog, depends on the atmosphere being conveyed and how successful the fog is at conveying it, depends on a lot of things!
    Fair enough! Thanks for posting your thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannar View Post
    I have seen good fog and bad fog. When it is good it is really good. It can really make a huge difference at times.
    I completely agree and I've recently went back and played a few missions known for their foggy atmosphere because I was never able to experience it before. I found that there was fog inside some of the houses and it caused everything to have a hazy, out of focus feel that I really didn't enjoy. I guess since I grew up on games like Goldeneye for the N 64 that I resist muddy non-sharp graphics now whenever I can. I like a clean, clear picture. On the flip side though, in some missions it was done very well and I enjoyed it, so I guess for me it is very hit and miss. I'll definitely have it on when doing reviews in the future though and may go back and re-shoot some screenshots for missions that should have fog.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    I know there's at least one mission you've reviewed so far that just plain looks wrong without fog enabled - Raid On Washout Central. The author didn't intend you to have that viewing distance and thus things like the obvious border between the landscape and the skybox and the relative visibility of textures in the distance just look completely wrong.
    I agree and it was mentioned a few times after I posted that review. I felt badly about it but couldnt do anything (At the time since I had tried nearly everything to bring fog back, it was my video card) and just told folks that there should be fog. I think one of my projects after covering as many fan missions as I can will be going back and re-doing alot of the screens for my older reviews (before I started using higher resolution pictures) and missions that were supposed to have fog.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    Sometimes authors have composed scenes in a way where they don't want you to see certain parts of the level's geometry in their visual composition. Turning fog off is then like washing a layer of oil off the canvass of an oil painting because you prefer seeing the detail of the brick behind a row of bushes the artist painted.

    For the most part, my opinion is that you should try to present the missions as the authors intended. It's your place to review their missions, not (in my view, anyways) present their missions in a manner personally customized by you.
    This is a great point. When doing reviews I very much try to put myself in the mindset of 'an average guy just playing thief', and I very much am. I've never made a mission, I probably couldn't even if I tried (I'm always complimenting the skills of authors and I'm consistently amazed at what they do) and my thief skills are very average. I always try to play missions as they were intended, and now that I have fog back I'll be using that as well during my first playthroughs for reviews. I just got so used to not having it that it was just normal at that point, so now its a big change to have it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    You could even make sloppily implemented fog a point of criticism if you find it really distracting, or at least advise readers that you believe a particular mission looks better without fog enabled.
    This is a great idea as well, and something I probably wouldn't have thought of doing until you suggested it. I'll definitely take 'with and without' into account in the future. Great idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    And if you really, REALLY think a particular screenshot looks better without the fog, then hey, it's your review thread.
    Gonna have to respectfully disagree with you there - This thread is the community's thread, and I really mean that. I may be steering the ship by posting the majority of the reviews and maintaining it, but I love with other folks post their reviews and very much wish more people would do so. I've tried to encourage it from day one but not many folks seem to want to stick their neck out to give their opinions on missions, and I can respect that stance as well - though so far no author that I've review has said anything negatively about something Ive said and often they send me a message thanking me for giving their mission more exposure. So please, if anyone wants to post a review, a topic for discussion or even just random screenshots please do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    Oh, and although I've already said it a couple times in this thread: Thank you so much for all the time and effort you've put into this project. This has really turned out be a fantastic resource for people seeking more Thief to savor!
    I really, really appreciate your kind words and I'm very glad that after all this time and all these reviews (and pages!) folks are still sticking with me on this crazy idea and hopefully enjoying it. I'm only doing this because I love the game and respect the folks in the community - so its great to see that some are digging the concept and contributing either just by reading or participating in the thread.

    Sorry that I broke your post up into multiple quotes but you covered a bunch of great points and I wanted to be able to address each one of them

  25. #875
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Gonna have to respectfully disagree with you there - This thread is the community's thread, and I really mean that. I may be steering the ship by posting the majority of the reviews and maintaining it, but I love with other folks post their reviews and very much wish more people would do so. I've tried to encourage it from day one but not many folks seem to want to stick their neck out to give their opinions on missions, and I can respect that stance as well - though so far no author that I've review has said anything negatively about something Ive said and often they send me a message thanking me for giving their mission more exposure. So please, if anyone wants to post a review, a topic for discussion or even just random screenshots please do!
    As soon as you learned me how to adjust gamma to screenshots, I would be happy to review some FM's.

    Not want to make you hurry with the tutorial, just take your time. I've got plenty of time myself.

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