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Thread: Ghosting Thief 1, 2 and 3

  1. #1

    Ghosting Thief 1, 2 and 3

    So guys I want to ghost run thief 1,2,3, fraps it and post it on youtube. Now I know the basic rules of Ghost running, but I've never done it. What I want to know is if you guys would like to see something like this or not. Also what other rules do you want me to follow?

    A little about me I'm 17, male, and have been playing thief since I was about 7-8(Dad got me into it) I'm new so........




    Hi

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: The limbo region of hell
    Heh, if you have never done it, good luck. Prepare to have to skip some things in various levels.

    If you post it they will watch, at least I will.

  3. #3
    Yeah, I will start on it first thing monday. This weekend I gotta go to Indiana.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Georgia
    Good luck. I've ghosted most of Thief 2, still have to get the last couple missions done. I've done all of the missions on expert, so I'm annoyed at the "KO this many people" on the first mission.

  5. #5
    jtr7
    Guest
    It's really a training mission, that's why. Think of it that way.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Well, how strict are you going to be with your ghosting? If you're truly ghosting, then you're going to have a lot of video file. For instance, I know of one AI you must pass in Cragscleft in order to complete the stage. He is unmoving and there is no way to pass him with out interacting with the environment in such a way as to violate the rules of ghosting.

    It's been a long time since I've made the pure ghosting attempt on Cragscleft, but from what I recall You can't swim upstream in that little waterway you can use as a rapid escape. If I'm wrong about that, then I'm sure I'll be corrected. Again, my memory is a little foggy, but if that were possible it might get you past this particular AI.

    So you're left with a few dubious options. One of which is to leave your Thief game running all night to see if the AI will "twitch" his way across the room and into a position that allows you to pass. A practice I have never engaged in, as what a great way to ruin the immersion and fun of the game for me.

    I believe another solution might be through AI nudging, another practice I've not used for much the same reasons.

    Of course you could speed up the video through any sort of boring parts like this, but my point is that not all the stages are necessarily "ghost friendly". I'm sure there are people here who are way better at it than I am who could tell you ways to get past AI that normally would cause you to break rules. Even they, however, will admit that there are some cases in which you have to break the rules to complete the stage.

    I'm not at all trying to discourage you. I just want you to go into this realistically. Try a couple of stages and then make a choice. How strict are you going to be on yourself? Because let me tell you, a strict ghost run on any one stage is a really time consuming endeavor, and it will try your patience. To try all three games? You're in for a ride my friend. Prepare for the long haul.

    Good luck.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2009
    Location: Atlantis
    I'll check it out if you post it but like Jarvis said, it's gonna be a challenge so make sure you know what you're getting into before you commit to it.

    @Jarvis- Which Hammer are you having the problem with? It's been a while since I ghosted Cragscleft but, after playing through it in my head, I can't seem to remember any unghostable areas, there were a few tricky situations though.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarvis View Post
    Well, how strict are you going to be with your ghosting? If you're truly ghosting, then you're going to have a lot of video file. For instance, I know of one AI you must pass in Cragscleft in order to complete the stage. He is unmoving and there is no way to pass him with out interacting with the environment in such a way as to violate the rules of ghosting.

    It's been a long time since I've made the pure ghosting attempt on Cragscleft, but from what I recall You can't swim upstream in that little waterway you can use as a rapid escape. If I'm wrong about that, then I'm sure I'll be corrected. Again, my memory is a little foggy, but if that were possible it might get you past this particular AI.

    So you're left with a few dubious options. One of which is to leave your Thief game running all night to see if the AI will "twitch" his way across the room and into a position that allows you to pass. A practice I have never engaged in, as what a great way to ruin the immersion and fun of the game for me.

    I believe another solution might be through AI nudging, another practice I've not used for much the same reasons.

    Of course you could speed up the video through any sort of boring parts like this, but my point is that not all the stages are necessarily "ghost friendly". I'm sure there are people here who are way better at it than I am who could tell you ways to get past AI that normally would cause you to break rules. Even they, however, will admit that there are some cases in which you have to break the rules to complete the stage.

    I'm not at all trying to discourage you. I just want you to go into this realistically. Try a couple of stages and then make a choice. How strict are you going to be on yourself? Because let me tell you, a strict ghost run on any one stage is a really time consuming endeavor, and it will try your patience. To try all three games? You're in for a ride my friend. Prepare for the long haul.

    Good luck.

    Hmm good point. I might have to just tinker a bit and If I can't do a part at all, would I be allowed to use items (not arrows) to make noises in other places to draw them away?

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: England
    Yer the only bit i remember was the golden hammer loot where the hammerite is talking to the novice about someone buying shoddy knives however you don't have to get this to complete the mission. I chose to get it though - as for my personal ghosting rules I like to get all loot / disposable items without disposing of items myself. In this case, I used a noisemaker arrow to distract them so i could nab the loot and then went all the way around the block to retrieve the noisemaker to kind of "get rid of any evidence".

    The main thing for me was not to be seen - I felt it ok to use noise distractions, but only where deliberate and necessary. When hearing a noise, it is more likely for a guard to think he imagined it rather than if he sees an intruder. Also it's not always clear a cause of a noise, where as a shadowy figure is obviously an intruder.

    Those are just my personal ghosting rules though - strict ghosting rules would say miss out that piece and move on but i feel this causes you to miss out on fun. Oh also I didn't really care too greatly if i was spotted by burricks or zombies or spiders in down the bonehoard, baffords or whatever as these cannot obviously convey they I have been there to anyone. Any creature that could would be a different manner.

    Now i just need to get out of the habit of bunnyhopping around everywhere when i lose patience - it truly spoils the game hahaha - nothing will ever be able to catch you. That's another reason why i have no idea why people are scared of the zombies - since they are so slow. Ok, ghosting past them on cragscleft when they come within an inch of you, carrying basso and hoping they don't walk into you is rather tense, but that is about it. They aren't really much of a threat.

  10. #10
    Update:Well I tried bafford and other then 1 guard semi seeing me (He went into alert mode but didn't chase me). does that count? if not then I ghosted it. I didn't get every bit of loot, I figured, that I would get the amount needed to complete the objective and try for other loot unless it's completly out of my way. I didn't use any tools at all during the mission but I'm gonna replay it and see if I can get past the 1 pathing guard in the basement, without him even going alert.

    Edit: Nm on second run through I just skipped the spider cave entirely, the one guard in the basement is a bit tricky because I think he will always end up seeing something, BUT he didn't chase after me.
    Last edited by Deathologist; 11th Jun 2009 at 23:51.

  11. #11
    Well for a first attempt I did it but I wanna try to get past that guard more and see if I can fix it but here's something I discovered (not sure in anyone else did) while playing :P

    http://files.filefront.com/Bafford+E.../fileinfo.html

    A bit dark but

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    As for Cragscleft, bear in mind that I'm playing Thief Gold. It's been many many year since I've played TDP, but if memory serves this particular hammer wasn't there.

    I can't remember the cell block number, but it's the one with the passage leading into the upper portions of the prison where the evidence box is. The very first room right out of the cell block has a hammer priest standing with his back to you. If you KO him, he's no big deal, as he never turns or walks or anything. But because of this, you can't ghost past him.

    There's a torch in the room. You might be able to pull it off if you douse the torch, I don't know. But of course that's a violation of ghosting rules. You have to go through this room, and this guy never turns.


    But I used him as an example since he was one I remember. Even if there is a way past him that I never figured out, there are plenty of other areas in the Thief games where you are forced to break rules.

    To Deathologist:

    Perhaps you don't fully understand the ghosting rules? I know they are listed somewhere in detail, and I'm sure someone will put up the link soon. But no, by strict rules even a 1st alert is a bust. That's when they say "what was that?" "Must have been rats". If they raise their weapon I believe that's called a 2nd alert? Point is, it's a bust.

    On top of that you can't douse torches. You must shut all doors. You must replace all key before you leave. If you unlock a door, you must relock it before you leave. No Moss, no invis, no speed... nothing. Just you, the shadows, and the slick finger discount. You can't leave any sign of your passing except missing loot. It's really quite difficult.

    Baffords is completely possible even with the strictest of rules. The Throne room is pretty tricky, but with some practice I'm sure you could pull it off fine.

    *edit* for clarity, I haven't watched the file yet. I need to go to sleep and work in the morning. I'll check it out soon though and give you some feedback.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: The limbo region of hell
    Actually you are thinking of supreme Ghost mode. Regular ghosting is a bit more lax in some respects.

    Official Ghost Rules - Eidos forums

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarvis View Post
    As for Cragscleft, bear in mind that I'm playing Thief Gold. It's been many many year since I've played TDP, but if memory serves this particular hammer wasn't there.

    I can't remember the cell block number, but it's the one with the passage leading into the upper portions of the prison where the evidence box is. The very first room right out of the cell block has a hammer priest standing with his back to you. If you KO him, he's no big deal, as he never turns or walks or anything. But because of this, you can't ghost past him.

    There's a torch in the room. You might be able to pull it off if you douse the torch, I don't know. But of course that's a violation of ghosting rules. You have to go through this room, and this guy never turns.


    But I used him as an example since he was one I remember. Even if there is a way past him that I never figured out, there are plenty of other areas in the Thief games where you are forced to break rules.

    To Deathologist:

    Perhaps you don't fully understand the ghosting rules? I know they are listed somewhere in detail, and I'm sure someone will put up the link soon. But no, by strict rules even a 1st alert is a bust. That's when they say "what was that?" "Must have been rats". If they raise their weapon I believe that's called a 2nd alert? Point is, it's a bust.

    On top of that you can't douse torches. You must shut all doors. You must replace all key before you leave. If you unlock a door, you must relock it before you leave. No Moss, no invis, no speed... nothing. Just you, the shadows, and the slick finger discount. You can't leave any sign of your passing except missing loot. It's really quite difficult.

    Baffords is completely possible even with the strictest of rules. The Throne room is pretty tricky, but with some practice I'm sure you could pull it off fine.

    *edit* for clarity, I haven't watched the file yet. I need to go to sleep and work in the morning. I'll check it out soon though and give you some feedback.
    nm: Read the rules I'm gonna try regular ghost first. OR strict ghost except that I want to complete the missions objective wise? Is that allowed, so that I can only do something if the mission objectives state I can?

    Also ty kam

    and jarvis, that file is me basically getting on the rooftops of bafford's manor.
    Last edited by Deathologist; 12th Jun 2009 at 09:47.

  15. #15
    Welp this time I ran through it completly and other then 1 1st alert, I got through it. the 1st alert was completly my fault, so Im gonna run again and fix it. Also I think this is a bug but.... If you save your game after the guards are done talking and follow the one all the way till he gets to the metal grate, if you reload your game they start the conversation over again and the guard won't even notice you :P

    Edit: Done Bafford's Mannor completly ghosted, no bugs, no alerts, hell I even closed that gate to the street when you leave. Gonna fraps it maybe today and start upload before 12:00 after 12:00 im gonna be gone for the weekend, so I will post it up by sunday night/ monday morning.
    Last edited by Deathologist; 12th Jun 2009 at 11:03.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    You might want to check the vids of tarvis79 on Youtube, he's ghosting TDP right now and he has some pretty clever tactics. Maybe you'll learn one or two things...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoGuy View Post
    You might want to check the vids of tarvis79 on Youtube, he's ghosting TDP right now and he has some pretty clever tactics. Maybe you'll learn one or two things...


    ty. Will do I'm playing gold though, but I will definitly check them out.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathologist View Post
    ty. Will do I'm playing gold though, but I will definitly check them out.
    Yeah, he's also playing Gold. I forgot one thing: he's not ghosting it, but dealing zero damage (no blackjacking, no killing). But doing that he ghosts 90% of the AI, not everyone.

    And maybe this is also useful: http://home.online.no/~ajnilsen/hn/hn.htm

  19. #19
    Wow that guys sick.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2005
    Location: Heart of Darkness
    I finally ghosted Soulforge. I hadn't realised at first that you only need to activate 7 of the 8 towers, and you can forget about the one in "the death room". The mission wasn't too hard, but it sure was loong. 1h 49min.

    The only mission I haven't ghosted so far is "Thives' Guild"

    The one mission I will never attempt to ghost again is "Killing time" because I played it with Minimalist project, had to restart at the very start, it reseted the difficulty to one where you need to finish the objectives in 30 minutes, I ghosted prefectly the entire mission, but it failed because the time limit. Also, when you go down, you can't go up, so if you don't get enough loot, you're taffd'.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: UK Portsmouth
    After baffords, soulforge was the first level i ever ghosted. It was so long and easy which it mind numbingly boring, barely any guards etc etc.

    Soulforge was a poor final level to T2.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    The only mission I haven't ghosted so far is "Thives' Guild"
    Ghosting that level seems like hell to me. I am curious if it even si possible...
    If you ever will succeed ghosting it, I would love to see a vid of it.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2009
    Location: Atlantis
    I ghosted the Guild once, it was the most miserable Thief experience ever. I normally enjoy the thrill of avoiding detection but this mission just killed the fun, metal gratings left and right, lights in all the wrong places, and a abundance of well-positioned guards, not to mention the fact that all the entry level AIs have ridiculously good eye sight (I swear the cook in the kitchen is impassible, I had to hold the front door open to dodge her). I don't envy you trying to play through it.

  24. #24
    BANNED
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Italia
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathologist View Post
    So guys I want to ghost run thief 1,2,3, fraps it and post it on youtube. Now I know the basic rules of Ghost running, but I've never done it. What I want to know is if you guys would like to see something like this or not. Also what other rules do you want me to follow?

    A little about me I'm 17, male, and have been playing thief since I was about 7-8(Dad got me into it) I'm new so........




    Hi
    Ghosting is the best choice!

    I just watched some walkthrough there, and I was disappointed because it wasn't in ghosting.

    Do it, and I will be surely happy to watch them!

  25. #25
    jtr7
    Guest
    I asked this once before and got snobbery:
    Has anyone done any Speed-Ghosting? I know, it's contradictory, but I guess Ghosting to meet only the minimum objectives, and taking every shortcut possible without detection, would be what I'm asking about.

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