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Thread: ThiefPetition.com - Campaign for T:DS Editing Tools

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Thiefier Than Thou
    One would hope. But the Black Cat guys (Unreal Ed experts BTW) reckon it will be nearly impossible or far too much work.

  2. #52
    And with their other projects in the works, such as Night Blade, Alien Swarm, and working on another patch for Thievery, I doubt it.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Thiefier Than Thou
    I didn't mean that they should do it.

    But since they are in the know I asked for opinions and the no nos were all about the complexities of the task and the fact that the editor/SDK that is in use is so heavily modified as to be a quite different beast from the original UnrealEd/Warfare/whatever code.

  4. #54
    About the SDK there some legal issues that prevent then from releasing a complete SDK for free. First the studio has licensed part of the engine of Unreal2 right ? So to use it or even do some C/C++ coding with it you will have to pay a license. When you buy the game you are just buying the rights for playing not to code with it unless there is an editor and a restricted programmming language that is included in those rights. Another thing is that the SDK build for thief3 will probably be used and reused by the publisher in other games to maximize the profit and time spent building it.

    However, since they are using part of the Unreal2 engine its normal that people could use the editor that comes with it with just some little tweaks. They talk about other tools. If these have nothing about messing with licensing rights and are restricted some how to protect their interests then its possible we can have some sort of toy SDK to play with, but dont expect to be using it like a pro game developing SDK.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: tampere,finland
    umm, no
    SDK is NOT the full source
    not at all
    it's only the editor and the game scripts

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: UK

    Warren on the editor

    Just FYI, I'm just watching a live IGN stream from E3, and atm they're interviewing Warren. When asked about the editing tools for Thief: DS he said "I don't think we'll be releasing them, but I never want to say never".

    Not really anything knew, just FYI. Sounds less optimistic than I'd imagined after Digi's recent comments. After listening to Warren talk about it I really don't think we're gonna see UnrealEd for Thief.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Thiefier Than Thou
    Yeah, that does sound bad. Very bad. We shall see though. . .

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    How can I watch the interview?

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Greece
    No, nothing is bad, nothing is lost. He just stated his opinion, and even that was not concrete. Van HellSing, i think you chose the wrong name for that thread over at the ISA forum although i'm sure it was the heat of the moment.

    The reality is that Warren is just another cog in the Eidos machine. Perhaps he is a very influential guy but i don't think he is responsible about everything there, every positive or negative decision taken. Have you ever thought that maybe he's on our side trying to convince some suits higher in the ranks to release the editor only to receive an answer that it's not financially justifiable? We don't have concrete proof that he's the bad guy after all and we probably never will, that's why we should stop being critical or erroneous to him all the time because you know what? Even if it's just a bunch of offensive words written on a forum from a dude who will remain anonymous, it's targeted at a guy who's not anonymous at all and it can hurt him. And we just might be accusing him of something that he has no direct control over it.

    Basically i think it's up to us, not him. Whether we like it or not (we don't ), Eidos has provoked us and the time to respond is approaching. We can only respond one way, by buying the game. I too was initially thinking of "punishing" Eidos/ISA for that shit (3rd person, dagger, etc) marketing, for not releasing the tools and cutting out so many things from the originals but on second thought, if we don't buy the game we are definitely shooting ourselves on the foot. If you want to punish Eidos, support your favorite game now, and if it's bad, don't buy one of their future games. No one has guaranteed tremendous Xbox sales (see IW for more info, heh), history can repeat itself. I'm not saying buy the game based on glowing previews, or DN's positive feedback (which can be subjective). Buy it for all those great moments that game, and the hundreds of FM's gave you, for all those reasons that make you keep re-installing to your HD a taffing 1998/2000 release.

    If we all put aside our grief with Thief III and help the game sell well, we will get a Thief III Gold and i find it hard to believe that Eidos will only put a bunch of new levels, a theme and a making of video in it.

    Back to what our next move should be regarding the editing tools, i think it's a bit risky only sending mail to one person. We already did that and it didn't work. How about doing the opposite? It might be better sending snail mail to numerous guys in the company. You know, spread the thing, make our presence felt, make them talk to each other about it, sth like "you didn't happen to receive letters from those Thief fans too did you? They sure look determined to me"

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Thiefier Than Thou
    I think we wait until a little after the release, when there are more and new fans. Then go for more leter writing. We have no idea what effect the last effort had, and we may find someone more suitable to post to through Digi.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Exiled in sassenachland
    The bottom line is that if Eidos decide to fund the editor, there will be one released. Faceless and Jordan Thomas (lead designer) have both expressed a desire for the community to have an editor. Sadly they don't make these decisions, and I don't think Warren and/or Trey do either (though of course they can add their influence).

    The campaign alone won't get an editor released. If the sales figures are good, and Eidos see potential for the series to be continued in some shape or form, the visibility and persistence of our requests may just make the difference required to get that little extra funding.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: UK
    How can I watch the interview?
    It was live, and you had to be an IGN Insider to watch it. However Fileplanet have started putting up all IGN's E3 interviews for download now, one hours worth at a time. Just wait for the Warren Spector interview to come up.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    Thanks!

  14. #64
    I'm not the only one beginning to notice the little clues that it was more of ISA's decision not to release the editon than it was Eidos, right?

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    Right . That statement by Warren sure reads like it...

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: UK
    IGN's interview with Warren is now available on Fileplanet.

  17. #67
    Gah. They who are closest to the editor's workings (they who ripped it apart and rebuilt it) should take whatever extra time they can, here and there, to tighten things up a bit. Hey, this is a DromEd community. It doesn't need to be perfect, just usable.

    That way, if Eidos ever comes forward and says, "hey guys, how long would it take you to get the editor ready for distribution?", they can simply answer, "It's close to ready now, just give me a day or two."

    One can dream, you know...

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    What we need now is Ion or Eidos stating exactly why they don't want to release the editor.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: tampere,finland
    it's possible there is a seperate licensing fee for releasing the editor with the engine

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    an idea!

    Note: There is no licensing fee for releasing UnrealEd with your game, the (massive) $$$ you pay up-front for the engine is it, AFAIK.



    I just had this idea... how about giving EIDOS tech support a call shortly after we've installed and registered our shiny new copy of Thief: Deadly Shadows, asking where the level editing tools are?

    I suspect that the support folks have to log every call to tech support, mainly so the mothership can decide which bugs need to be fixed and which can be ignored. If they're getting a large pile of "hey, where are the level editing tools, I can't find them on the CD!" maybe it'll make them reconsider.

    I mean, if it's fairly easy to get someone at ION to ZIP up the tools and dump 'em on the FTP server, it'll save them money because they'll get fewer support calls.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: New Milford, CT
    > If they're getting a large pile of "hey, where are the level editing tools, I can't find them on the CD!" maybe it'll make them reconsider.

    brrrrrring

    brrrrrring

    brrrrrring

    [click]

    Welcome to Eido technical support!
    Press 1 for help with Hitman.
    Press 2 for help with Thief: Deadly Shadows.

    [2]

    If you are looking for the editing tools, please press 1.

    [1]

    We're sorry, we cannot process your request at this time. Goodbye.

    [click]

  22. #72
    But the calls are logged anyway, so they will notice it, if enough of them are generated.

  23. #73
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: Upper Sandusky, Oh

    I worked at a call center doing technical support for a computer company. We had to log every call. It could then be broken down by type of problem so the computer company can go back and fix them! This could work if you are actually able to talk to someone. If you do talk to someone, ask them to put in the subject/reference line: "Where is the editing tools?" Ask if this issue has an issue number. Then when we call in we can give the issue number and get off the phone quickly...Call Center Techs love this because it lowers thier talk time average....we want these techs to love us!!!

    Tafferdawg

  24. #74
    C'mon EIDOS, make us a good announcement - that the editor will get some time devoted to fix and release. You've got people on a roll now - strike when it's hot!


    *crickets*

  25. #75
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Hamburg, Germany
    The "too expensive to develop the editor" is pure nonsense. Nobody demands this from ISA/Eidos. I bet if the existing tools would be released as-is, with next to no or even no documentation, the community will still be able to deal with them somehow. It would definitely be easier than reverse-engineering the files.

    If it was a matter of extra license fees, this would be an entirely different matter, but I want to hear about this first. Until then, getting no response which is making any sense is frustrating.

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