TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 3 of 114 FirstFirst 12345678131823283338434853103 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 2826

Thread: The Dark Mod

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: On my bicycle \o/
    Thats some good looking work people. I guess I'm gonna have to purchase Doom 3 and help out a bit

    *jay nips off to amazon*

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    Ooh...need 3D modellers right now. We only have one who has shown any work, and he lost it all as detailed above. So we need furniture, lights, characters, you name it.

    And in Doom 3, you need to produce 2 models - a high-poly one, and a low-poly one. The high poly model is used as a bumpmap reference.

    We're fine for programmers until we get the SDK and realise that we're horrendously short-staffed. Or not.

  3. #53
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Yeah, I lost that model. Along with all 3D work I've done in the past 8 months or so. (For those of you keeping score, that even includes that goddamn JCD model from the ill-fated Deus Ex graphics overhaul =P)

    So, I'll be restarting now. On the flip side, I learned a lot even from just doing this one model - so the new version will be even more awesome.

    As for the high/low-poly issue? It's actually really awesome. Just make a nice big high-poly model, which'll take a while, then copy it and delete any and all detail. It's really easy since it needs NO detail. =D

    So, yeah, I'm definitely slightly depressed - but I know I can do better work now.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    Keep me in mind for writing when it comes time. I know it'll be a while, but I'd love to help out with books, scrolls, story, etc.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Fingernail
    The high poly model is used as a bumpmap reference.
    Normal maps.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Not quite over the rainbow
    Quote Originally Posted by Fingernail
    Well, what did you mean by propagation? In the physics sense, this is just how sound travels through air. Since computer games do not literally simulate every molecule of air, there has to be some technical approximation based on much simpler laws.

    EAX would mean, as stated, that occlusion and distance would effect the sounds. As it turns out, the current build of the Doom 3 engine does not have EAX support.

    However, the great thing about Doom 3 is it's flexibility. As with all ID engines.
    We're talking about how terrain formation affects the occlusion, and, technically, the actual render origin of the sound.

    Consider this:

    The player is in an enclosed room with a single door, no windows or anything, and a sound sources from, 'Virtual Sound'. On the render-side, for the player, the sound will need to actually be moved somewhere around the 'Render Sound' origin so it sounds like the sound is comming thru the doorway (from the outside) - instead of how Doom III probably does it by just going right thru the frickin' wall.

    Just another example so you can, hopefully, kind of see how it works:

    In this situation, you're going to have two actual render instances of the sound, because of how sound bounces off surfaces, it needs to sound like it's comming from two directions.

    Then you'd also have to calculate the occlusion (ie. volume) for each of the render sounds, depending on how distant the render origin is from the actual\virtual origin (while also calculating the original sound volume into that). Then, for the situation of the first diagram, you'd also need to take into consideration of whether the door is open or not. Now, if the door wasn't there at all, and there was no open space to that enclosed room, then the sound would be completely culled from rendering. At least.. that's about how Dark did it, while thinking on terms of "All solid surfaces are completely solid. No fucking way will sound be able to travel thru it." - which isn't very realistic really 'cause sound almost always travels thru walls a little. So, what would be best is, to add in another render instance of the sound comming from the original\virtual sound origin, then lower the volume, and muffle it (that's where EAX comes in), and let it pass normally thru the wall. It'd be best to have some shader params handeling how sound, if at all, travels thru a surface, 'cause you'd most definetly want to have some options there.

    So, to do this kind of thing, you'll need to setup somekind of pathfinding database for sound, like Dark does, or like they did in Thievery (by just using the already existing AI path data - if you want to get cheap with it ). In my project i've got Room brush support, like Dark does, for this - you'd probably want to consider the same.


    Edit:
    Err.. alright, in my arrogance, thinking that i knew what EAX's Advanced HD was, didn't read the link Domarius posted. And i'm surprised, very surprised. Especially considering that i'm working with Jedi Academy's code-base.. i had no idea it did anything like that. But then, the machine i'm working on doesn't have an Audigy card, so i never even knew... so fuck. All that time i spent putting in my sound system may have been for naught!
    I'll still have to test it out though..

    So, what exactly did you mean, Domarius.. by "sound propagation"? I'm wondering...

    ...and for the second Edit:
    After testing on my Audigy card (and thus enabling EAX 4.0 Advanced HD), i've come to the conclusion that that Creative's claims of terrain influenced occlusion and positioning is bullshit. It really does no different on my Live! card. Maybe i'm just missing something? Has anyone 'round here done any extensive testing on this? Even Thief III didn't rely on EAX to handle that, what i've been calling "sound propagation". From the interview there on Creative's site it sounds like they were just using EAX for the acoustial effects.


    People bees quite.. i feel like i'm blabbering now.
    Last edited by Scarlett; 7th Sep 2004 at 23:12.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Between your toes!
    In that first diagram, there shouldn't be a -render sound- in the middle of the doorway, there should be one at each corner of the doorway, so it is more like Thief 1/2 AND real life.

    Look here:



    Now you can tell which way the sound is coming from, to the left or the right of the opening. Load up Thief and pay attention! You will find that this is what it sounds like, the sounds seem to come from the corners, and that is essentially what it sounds like in real life, hence you hear a sound arround the corner.
    Last edited by cheese_thief; 7th Sep 2004 at 23:34.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Not quite over the rainbow
    Ah, right makes perfect sense to do that.. thanks for pointing that out. I was also considering that Dark maybe rendered the sound from a direction, rather than a specific point - it seems like it'd be a good idea. But i don't know if that's technically even doable...

    Maybe you could accomplish that if you just keep the render sound origin aligned, in this case on the Z axis, with the view origin? Think i'll try that out..

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: tampere,finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic
    Even though Doom 3 doesn't use 2 way loading zones, ....
    yes it does
    there's countless examples of this
    huge areas of the base can be travelled back and forth
    visit a different area and return to old ones
    just like SS2

  10. #60
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: ...and mastadons
    Really? The only example I can think of is when you go out to the abandoned comm center towards the beginning of the game. The rest of the time it'd just send you down elevators or through hatchways without giving you a way back.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemebond
    Normal maps.
    Thought this might confuse you. Sorry to patronise, but 'Bumpmap' is more commonly understood.

    So just to clear up: a normal map defines the direction in which the surface is facing, to calculate real time shadows. So if a light is at one edge of a surface, the engine looks at the normal map to see which pixels are intended to be pointing (their 'normals') away from the light, and shadows them accordingly. It's a trick to make a 2D texture seem more 3D - so a flat wall can look as if little pipes, boxes and bricks stick out slightly.

    Doom 3 (the engine), from what I can tell, is mostly about visual trickery. The models are low-poly but look high-poly due to the highres textures, normalmaps and specular maps.

    Oh yeah, a specular map defines the shiny parts of a texture, so if you are facing at the correct angle between a light and the shiny part of a floor, say, then it will appear shiny. It's a cool effect, as it changes depending on position relative to the light.

    Textures have changed.

    Sorry for the long description. And probably lots is not technically accurate enough, but it's an 'all you need to know' kind of definition.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    So far I haven't really found any good explanation about what the practical difference is between bumpmapping and normalmapping. Both are used to 'cheat' surface structures, right? Bump maps define how 'elevated' a pixel is compared to the others, whereas normal maps define what the surface normal on that pixel is, but what's the practical difference?

  13. #63
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Normal maps contain more information.

    Take a big square polygon. Imagine it is 20 pixels by 20 pixels. It is on the XY plane, so the normal at each pixel is just straight up along the Z axis, yes? A bump map simple distorts the magnitude of these normal vectors. A normal map changes them in all three axes. Thus, there is more information, and you can create, say, hill-shapes instead of plateau shapes. The difference is subtle, but definitely noticeable.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Do you have a screenshot somewhere? I can understand the difference in geometry, but not in how they're actually rendered.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    Not really. Doom 3 uses normal mapping check out some of those screenshots, bearing in mind that most of the surfaces are flat geometry with clever textures.

    Bump mapping is different, not widely used. However, virtual displacement, or parallax, mapping will become more common. Instead of making the surface look bumpy within the geometry, it kinda pulls out the bumps further but without actually adding extra geometry.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Fingernail
    Thought this might confuse you. Sorry to patronise, but 'Bumpmap' is more commonly understood.
    No confusion. Bumpmap may be "more commonly understood" but it's inaccurate to use it here. Doom 3 uses normal-maps on models, not bump-maps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fingernail
    ...explaination on Doom 3's texture usage...
    I understand how Doom 3 works.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: eastern united states
    i might be interested in making some music for the mod eventually. i have been writing electronic music since about 1998 and some of the stuff i do could fit the theme. i will post some links to some sample mp3s when i have time to encode and get them online

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith
    Do you have a screenshot somewhere? I can understand the difference in geometry, but not in how they're actually rendered.
    Well you're in for a shock - download this document and prepare to be amazed;
    http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx8...WhitePaper.pdf

    The most amazing comparison is the last 2 pictures of the orange old looking man.

    If you don't want a 2mb download (it's worth it, trust me, I'm on 56k too) then try this page;
    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1583549,00.asp
    Not as impressive in its examples, but better than nothing.

    Just think of it as BumpMaps, but 100 times better looking, honest to goodness fooling you into thinking your looking at a pre-rendered 3D model from like, Final Fantasy the Movie, except at the edges of the model, you can see the angular lines of the TRUE polygons, (but it hardly matters).


    Sound Propagation
    This is for everyone still confused about this.

    EAX has always been about giving developers the TOOLS to simulate realistic sounds. There's no such thing (yet) that's anything like creating some level in the Doom editor, playing a sound in it, and EAX does the rest. EAX has no idea how your level works. It's not supposed to. All game level data is different and customised to the game.

    Remember in DromEd, how you have to create "Room brushes", and tell them what effect to apply (Hall, Dead Room, etc)? It's the same thing (but a lot more complex).

    EAX can make it sound like the object is coming from around the corner, or through a wooden door, or from across the farm yard, but the game developer has to tell it all of that information - there is a door here, the player is outside, etc.

    So, for sound to PROPAGATE correctly, you have to have some system set up where the computer can decide how and when a sound can travel from room to room - a la the Room Database you have to build in DromEd before you can play the level and hear sounds correctly.

    EAX does not "automatically" work out where the holes are in your rooms, what's possibly blocking them (glass, or wood or whatever) and decide where, when and how sound can travel.

    Your sound card has no idea what the hell a "room" in your game is. Just how to make things sound pretty.

    EAX is a set of tools.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett
    ...
    After testing on my Audigy card (and thus enabling EAX 4.0 Advanced HD), i've come to the conclusion that that Creative's claims of terrain influenced occlusion and positioning is bullshit. It really does no different on my Live! card. Maybe i'm just missing something?...
    Yep.

    Remember the part on that page where it says "To fully enable EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD on Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, please download the latest patch from here."? That probably suggests that the game doesn't support it without the patch, and therefore, "the game needs to support EAX", not "EAX magically makes every game sound cool"

    And if you go to the main EAX 4.0 page
    http://www.soundblaster.com/resource...cleid=86&cat=3
    It says down the bottom "EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD games are now available.", which probably means they weren't previously, and therefore you need a game that actually supports EAX 4.0

    And at the very bottom of that page, it says;
    * The EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD driver is currently available for the Sound Blaster Audigy (Windows 2000 and XP only), Audigy 2 and Audigy 2 ZS (Windows 98SE, Me, 2000 and XP). It is not available for the Audigy LS and the USB Sound Blaster Audigy 2 NX.
    So of course it didn't make a difference on your SBLive! card.

  20. #70
    I just thought you guys would like to see a page where Thief: Deadly Shadows is reffered to as one of the "top class games"

    http://www.soundblaster.com/resource...p?articleid=97

  21. #71
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu
    Well, of course they're going to call it a "top class game"

    That's like Amazon saying the Segway is the future of transportation.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Domarius
    Well you're in for a shock - download this document and prepare to be amazed;
    http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx8...WhitePaper.pdf
    Cheers (but did there have to be so much maths? I thought I'd left maths pretty much behind when I left grammar school... ). It's definitely clearer to me now what the practical difference between the two is. Has regular bumpmapping ever really been used in games? At most I remember coming across specular bumpmapping.

  23. #73
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: ...and mastadons
    Same room as before, but now finished. Once I get more textures I'll start doing the rest of the map.

    But it really needs some furniture...


    Closeup shot, shows off some of the bumpmapping

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Greece
    Very nice. Will it be possible to place the door handles in the middle?

  25. #75
    The potential for this is just too scary. Looking great!

    Are you guys planning body awareness (if perhaps implemented a bit better)? Here's a vote FOR it.

Page 3 of 114 FirstFirst 12345678131823283338434853103 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •