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Thread: The Dark Mod

  1. #151
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: lurking somewhere
    that door does look very, very nice. I'm not really tuned into the whole texture-making process, so i can't really make "educated" comments; its just bitchin.

    I was wonderin bout the floor though, is that just a high-res texture or does have some other maps applied to it? (i wanna say bump mapping but im not sure if thats the right term)

    also i think the screen's for rGun's mod dont really do the lighting part of the engine justice; it seems as if theres only one type of shadow in those screens and its pitch black. The actual game does some pretty nice things with light and shadows.

  2. #152
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: ...and mastadons
    Quote Originally Posted by Picklocke
    I was wonderin bout the floor though, is that just a high-res texture or does have some other maps applied to it? (i wanna say bump mapping but im not sure if thats the right term)
    It has a normalmap (think bumpmap, but more complicated) and a specularmap (determines surface shininess) applied to it. You can't notice the specular because of the way the light is angled, that and I made it rather subtle since I wanted the tiles to appear a little coarse and worn.

  3. #153
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: lurking somewhere
    [after briefly reading up on how to apply -maps to textures and make them show/apply in doom3].... i gotta lotta learning to do. thanks for the quicky lesson. and keep up the good work!

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic
    Edit: Here ya go, a basic ambient light entity keeps the shadows from being fully dark.
    Cool! There is no ass large enough to prevent a kicking from this mod. And huge kudos on all the great textures being made.

  5. #155
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Between your toes!
    Who needs an editor for Thief 3 now?

    I have a few questions:

    Is this going to be like a campaign or just a recreatin of the Dark Engine?

    Is there going to be multiplayer capability? That would kick mucho ass! Like a better Thievery! If you do have multiplayer, i have a suggestion. Please don't use the Thievery style lightgem-portrayal (for lack of better term). In TUT, the more shadow you were in, the more transparent you became. I think a beter solution world be the SPlinter Cell PT technique, where if you are in shadow, it casts onto the person in hiding and you have to be the judge if you are hidden or not. But that would be hard to do in first person and the lightgem would have no purpose, where you can't see yourself. Oh Yea! Body awareness! With D3's unified lighting, you could just look down at yourself to see if you are in shadow! That would be cool!

    Oh, and something else that would be cool, is if you enable cahacter self shadowing, a la the Ultra Extreme Quality mod. Just imagine a thief emerging from shadow, with his face half shrouded in shadow cast by the hood. I don't think it would be that hard.

    Good luck and I sure hope this all comes together in the end.
    Last edited by cheese_thief; 1st Oct 2004 at 00:25.

  6. #156
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: ...and mastadons
    A Thief 3 editor would still be something nice to have, regardless of how many Thief type mods there are.

    The mod is kinda being done in 2 parts. What we're working on right now is more akin to an FM platform, that way we can release it and let people work on their own stuff without having to wait for us to finish up a multilevel campaign. There's gonna be an FM or two included with the first release, but they won't be connected storywise to the 2nd half of the mod which is...well... a multilevel campaign.

    Multiplayer? We've tossed around a few ideas but the main focus has been on singleplayer. If we end up implementing some multiplayer aspect it'll probably be different than Thievery or Nightblade...doing something similar would be redundant as hell. I'm leaning more towards co-op myself, something akin to Zelda 4-Swords where it requires a couple of people to help complete a mission...but in the end who knows what we'll do.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 1st Oct 2004 at 01:42.

  7. #157
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    We now have a moddb profile & page: http://mods.moddb.com/4000/

    Enjoy. New concepts on the website. If you can be arsed to trek to cgtalk.com, there's a thread in the game art design forum with some preliminary texture work on the thief model.

    http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=172094

  8. #158
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Europops
    The frustration I feel is that without the D3 SDK you can't know what is really possible. And the most important aspects of this mod are the AI, by a long shot, and light engine and stealth.

    I worry that all of these efforts will be for nothing if you find out that the AI implementation is not of suitable standard. Who is on AI? HAve you liased with BlackCat at all?

  9. #159
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    Judging by every other id SDK, everything we plan will be possible. Basically, they will release all code except the core renderer. Physics, AI and game system will all be there to play around with. Alright, it's still going to be a FPS, it's still going to have the same graphics (to a point), but as far as AI goes, we should be able to take it as far as is possible.

    Which means our dedicated team of programmers, led by sparhawk, will be able to cook up some really cool features. However, we will never stray from our target. We will use a system similar (if not the same as) CVS, (such as SourceSafe), so work is ordered and not duplicated. All work is being kept track of by a local database, with links to forum threads and WIPs.

    A new modeller just joined the team, Frank.

    We have not liased with Black Cat. They are using a different engine, and are aiming for different features and gameplay. Whilst I'm sure that their expertise is great, UT is not the same as D3, sadly, in any useful aspects really.
    Last edited by Fingernail; 9th Oct 2004 at 16:57.

  10. #160
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Never mind

  11. #161
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    I agree with Subjective, the AI is going to be the single most difficult challenge for you. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to get it to the level of TDP or TMA, mind you, but taking it to the TDS tier is going to be quite hard. Consider the ability to recognize changes in the environment and the huge dialogue archive necessary to vocalize accordingly.

    Best of luck, though. Like I've said before, I'm rooting for you guys, but it won't be easy.

  12. #162
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Brown
    I agree with Subjective, the AI is going to be the single most difficult challenge for you. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to get it to the level of TDP or TMA, mind you, but taking it to the TDS tier is going to be quite hard. Consider the ability to recognize changes in the environment and the huge dialogue archive necessary to vocalize accordingly.

    Best of luck, though. Like I've said before, I'm rooting for you guys, but it won't be easy.
    I'm on top of that vocal library.

  13. #163
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Europops
    That's very good news about the SDK Fingernail. I meant AI programming from BlackCat. They did it for TUT and they will be doing it for Nightblade. Most importantly it is stealth based AI. If you haven't, you should. I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

  14. #164
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    The only contact we've had is a few comments in this thread, and the fact that they didn't want us to use the name Thievery (that's fair enough).

    But, I agree that in an area so complex as AI programming, we will need all the help we can get.

  15. #165
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Europops
    Do you think they see you as competition? I've thought that as mutual Thief fans they'd have been more in contact. The Dark Mod is pretty cool name imho anyway. Better than Nightblade. Not that it will stop me mapping for MB though

  16. #166
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: ...and mastadons
    I don't think they can help much beyond giving us a few insites and hints. From what I remember Orgy saying (probably earlier in this thread), they used a few specific UT features to do the AI...features that probably don't have a parallel in D3.

    If we were working with UT then we'd all be best buds and they'd be showering us with helpful advice while paying our tab at the bar, but we're different mod teams working with different engines...there isn't a terrible amount we can do to help each other beyond lending some moral support.

    Once Uengine3 comes out, though...that'll probably change alot. I intend on harassing the hell out of em once it's released.

  17. #167
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: ...and mastadons
    Well since I'm the mods resident braggart I figured I'd post another shot of what I've been working on and a link to the site so everyone can check out Springheel's coolie awesome artwork for the Hammer-alikes.

    Direct Link to the art section

    And

    direct link to my most recent texture mockup

    See what you all think.

  18. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect
    That's very good news about the SDK Fingernail. I meant AI programming from BlackCat. They did it for TUT and they will be doing it for Nightblade. Most importantly it is stealth based AI. If you haven't, you should. I'm sure they'd be happy to help.
    I'm on the Dark Mod team and I've already brought this up with the group, when we first started. I made a thread about it on the Dark Mod forum.

    For some reason, they feel it's not that important. But I PMed oRGy , the TUT guy on this forum, asking if he could contribute, and he said he'd join the forum and offer advice whenever he can, so I guess that's all we can get.

  19. #169
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Why not continue even if the y do release a T3 editor. 'Ours' could turn out to be a better editor that whatever Ion/Eidos eventually come up with, and we'll have full control of the content. There will definitely NOT be a full T3 SDK under any circumstances.
    Let's face it, T3 wasn't any good, except for one great mission.
    There's no competiton betweem NB and the Dark Mod, I'm working on both.

  20. #170
    As I understand it, work on the Dark Mod will continue regardless of the release of a T3 editor.

  21. #171
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Eshaktaar
    As I understand it, work on the Dark Mod will continue regardless of the release of a T3 editor.
    Yes. The Dark Mod has several advantages.

    It uses id's Doom 3 engine which has a really good graphics and supports everything we need
    ID is known to have a very good community support for modders.
    ID is known to release their sourcecode after some time. It's of course not guaranteed but it is a fair chance while on T3 the chance is so close to zero that it doesn't really matter.
    Doom3 already has the editor inbuilt. So we need only to build tools which are related to our mod and not to all the other stuff like level creation, lighting, texturing and such.
    ID will releas an SDK. Chances of getting a T3 SDK is so close to zero that it doesn't really matter. We must be lucky if we will get an editor at least.
    The community support for D3 is VERY big because it already has a good communit where many people know all kind of things. I don't mean to say that the Thief fanbase is not a good community, but of course if ever an editor is released the building community has to start almost from scratch while for Doom it already exists for quite some time.
    Because of the support from ID we can change practically every aspect of the game to our needs (models, AI, scripting, etc.).
    Doom 3 is released also on Linux, so I (and I guess there will be others who also appreciate this) we can play Thief then on Linux without the need of rebooting just to play a game.

    So, all in all, I think even IF (VERY BIG IF) an editor is released for T3 we will ONLY have an editor. In Worst case this means that we can create levels and nothing more. We are limited to Windows only. We can't change models, props. We can't fix certain bugs (like AI behaviours) and so on. So there is a really big advantage over continuing on the original Thief series.

    I'm really sorry about that, but it seems Edios want's to play it this way. I sure would by new releases of Thief if there will be some, but then again, I would think about buying them immediately when they are released because of how badly T3 has been done in many regards.

  22. #172
    Sound doesn't occlude.
    Gah, I can't believe how long and how many times I forgot to go and verify this. Anyway, I finally did, and although what I have to say is pretty much what I said before, it is at least good news. And the good news is, "oh, yes it does."

    There might be ways to set it up differently in the editor, with each set of individual entity properties or the like, meaning that maybe an id designer screwed up on some "room brushes" (if such things exist in some form) or forgot to set sound blocking properties on some doors, but there is no doubt about it - sound both occludes and pathfinds (for lack of a better term). Meaning, it will be stopped (partially or completely) by closed doors, AND that sound doesn't just pass full strength through walls in an expanding sphere - it does go around corners as it should. The example I mentioned that would show this truly does show it. I have only the demo at this time, but it should work the same for both. Fire up a new game, and start your trek to see sarge. Before you get to him, you will pass the kitchen on your right, right next to a doorway. When that doorway opens, you will hear the two technicians talking about something... I think they're talking about rumors of seeing things. Anyway, when the door opens and closes, you will hear and not hear them, respectively. That's the first proof. For the second proof, open the door, and then run into the kitchen. Face them through the wall. The sound of their voices will not come from in front of you (even though you are facing them directly) - it will come from your left, thus bending around the corner and through the open door.

    This holds goooooooooooood things for The Dark Mod.

  23. #173
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Between your toes!
    I'll have to go check this out...
    *Starts up D3*

  24. #174
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Between your toes!
    I confirm what is said above

  25. #175
    Note: the following is not intended to complicate matters or shake the mod development process! It's just idle curiosity.

    Have you guys considered HL2 perhaps as a superior platform for The Dark Mod? I don't personally know much about the specifics, as I haven't been following HL2 closely. However, looking at HL1 editing, it sure took off (in a huge way) for some reason...

    Sure wish Ion^H^H^H id would hurry the hell up with the SDK.

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