What's your Thief 4 DREAM?

[Subjective Effect]

Enough of this negativity! Based on what I saw with DX:HR I think it might turn out fine.

This what I'm dreaming of:

• No hub, but a mission based system, like T1 and 2 and with a linear plot, that still takes place in what seems to be a large open world. You start the mission in the streets/outside and have to get into the place that the bulk of the mission takes place. Of course city/outside missions could be there too.
• 1st person view, but if there is a 3rd person option it doesn't impact on the movement mechanics at all.
• Thief 1 and 2 movement mechanics. Tight. Oh yeah.
• The tools of T2 (at least) plus some new others. I wouldn't mind a zip line, or other potion types.
• A proper Expert mode a la Thief 1, with extra content compared to the other difficulty levels.
• Great cutscenes. I liked the leaked vid of the trailer so if the same team did them I'd be happy.
• An interesting and dark plot. I don't mind if this is a Tales of The City episodic affair actually. And I don't mind having the girl from T3 in it as long as it's handled well (and I think it can be). I'd quite like a dark romance to be in there somewhere, with someone other than the girl from T3 thanks.
• Good AI. This is pretty important. Believable AI algorithms and sensible abilities would be nice. Being able to call for help or another guard who has a missile weapon etc.
• I don't care about deep water but no death on falling in like in T3 please.
• Undead. I like the undead elements of T1 and 2, and of course the Cradle was done really, really well. More of this please. Having said that..
• A good variety of missions - mansions, streets, prisons, catacombs, mage towers, churches/monasteries.
• Music more akin to the dark dub beats in Thief 1 please. I don't mind the music in T2 and 3 but keeping to the Thief 1 style would be my preference. And I hope they get the environmental music/sounds right. Thief 1 and 2 did these so, so well

I think that's it for now. I can imagine most of this being there and I can't say what's more important.

Here's hoping!

[Dia]

Okay, I'll play. Pretty much everything you wish for SE; minus the zombies and the girl from T3. I'd like to see LARGE, explorable maps - including houses & buildings. For example: it's always frustrated me that the seemingly well-appointed home with an open door on the second floor balcony was totally inaccessible. Or other interesting looking buildings that tempt you or spark your curiosity but turn out to be inaccessible.

I've played some FMs with super-large maps and was in absolute 7th heaven! I love roaming the streets, hearing the sounds coming from the local pubs and open windows of private residences. But I'd love for those pubs and residences to be explorable as well, not like in T3 where you went from point A to point B with very little available in the area of exploring.

Oh yeah - and I want Garrett/Stephen Russell back.

[Melan]

I would like that game. Let's hope it is close to that model.

[deathshadow]

Take TDP or TMA, update the graphics, make it so clubbing someone in the foot doesn't knock them out WITHOUT making it as useless as in TDM... Pretend TDS never existed from a gameplay standpoint.

DONE! Otherwise, LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE! Think you have some brilliant new gear to add? Don't! Think some great new movement mechanic or cinematic takedowns need to be in it? Don't!

Pretty much adding anything 'new' apart from graphics and some minor AI tweaks? DON'T!!!!!

[SlyFoxx]

What I would have wanted? I say would because we're not getting it. T4 made with a shiny new updated dark engine. I want the game camera to behave EXACTLY as it does with T2. I hate having to learn how to drive a new game. I like that in Thief that Garrett took some time to learn to operate and that there are no automatic "cool moves" performed by the computer.

At the same time I like the exploits you can pull off in dark like the endless fall to stick a mantel or attach to a ladder. I like long falls where you just glance off the top brush or a door frame that's too narrow to stand upon by just wide enough to slow you down so you don't take damage. I like using the ten carrots I've collected to reach a spot no one intended to be reached. I like using 5 rope arrows to cross a huge gorge and collecting them as I go.

I've spent 12 years in training with dark and building with dark. She's my bitch and I love her. so

[BrokenArts]

My dream, and it would be a dream for Garrett. Garrett has to go back to the past. A nod to the old Thief games, where as he runs across our favorites. Bug Beast, spiders, craymen, zombies, etc. It would be a nod to the old games, he needs the past in order to deal with the present and future. THAT would make me happy.

[R Soul]

• Thief 1 and 2 movement mechanics. Tight. Oh yeah.

Agreed, plus:

• a good editor for FMs
• the ability to set lots of important variables (very little hardcoding)

I think with those three things, it won't matter if we like T4 because we could remove what we don't like and enhance what we do, like T3's Minimalist Project but with more control.

[nbohr1more]

* Backward compatibility with FMs (at least Thief 3 since it's UE based... ideally all 3 with some sort of converter process for T1/2 FMs ).

* Marketers realize that games like Amnesia have a similar appeal and thus they try to capitalize on that trend rather than trying to make Thief 4 into Assassin's Creed. Maybe some new fear based gameplay mechanics for undead areas...

* Mod support with an incentive system for FM authors, Modelers, etc akin to the Team Fortress "hat economy". Where missions and assets can become DLC if the author chooses.

* Smarter AI counter-balanced with a few "escape mechanics" like chair throwing, kicking and maybe even hand-to-hand melee ala the Chronicles of Riddick game fisticuffs (necessarily difficult and a low chance of success to discourage non-stealth gameplay styles of course).

[nbohr1more]

make it so clubbing someone in the foot doesn't knock them out WITHOUT making it as useless as in TDM...

As of TDM v1.05, the Blackjack should be much more reliable. Have you tried a recent version of TDM?

[deathshadow]

As of TDM v1.05, the Blackjack should be much more reliable. Have you tried a recent version of TDM?

Yes, and it went from a 5% success rate to maybe 10%... twice nothing is still useless. This "aim for the sky as if that's where their head is" on a OVERHAND STRIKE is just stupid. It's a OVERHAND STRIKE... that means if you're lined up on yaw, pitch should NOT be that big a factor. Just like the useless lockpicking -- which even set for 'easy' is uselessly impossible. On "easy" it just sits there clicking and doesn't do a blasted thing... on normal I can't tell the normal delay between clicks from the 'end' delay (if there even is such a thing)...

Those two combined means as much as I want to like it, TDM is unplayable for me.

[Vivian]

Good game with some interesting new mechanics, new antagonists and a decent story please. We don't need a retread. What's the point? But, that said, what exists of the toolset doens't need screwing with, just maybe expanding a little. Rope arrows definitely a must.

Deathshadow, you have to aim at their head (seriously, I never even new this was an issue), and you just listen for the pattern (usually 'tchk... tchk... tchk... tchock) and get the timing right (it's release the key between the tchk and the tchok, isn't it?). It's tricky, but that's the point.

[deathshadow]

I'm assuming this was meant for me...

Darkshadow, you have to aim at their head (seriously, I never even new this was an issue)

If I aim at their 'head' it's a complete miss that just pisses them off -- to actually hit I have to aim about 20 degrees or more above their head... and I'd say 90% of the time, it just doesn't work even aimed at the same spot.

and you just listen for the pattern (usually 'tchk... tchk... tchk... tchock) and get the timing right (it's release the key between the tchk and the tchok, isn't it?). It's tricky, but that's the point.

I cannot hear the difference... Tricky to the point where it's useless is NOT good gameplay.

Both combined are enough to make me go screaming back to T1/2 fan missions... which on the whole appear to be better written and more enjoyable anyways... some of them (ANIR and Rose cottage) even look better.

[Vivian]

Well... I didn't have any problems with either of them. Blackjacking I literally didn't notice any difference with the dark engine games, lockpicking threw me until I went back and read the instructions. So I can assure you they do both work. But anyway, if you could make them sound a bit less hysterical, why not make some suggestions to the TDM devs about ways they could make the systems a bit more accessible?

[Subjective Effect]

The lockpicking and blackjack in TDM are fine.

[Erand]

I just hope EM will make it so that even if the game itself is not-that-appealing to the hardcore Thief -people, it can nevertheless be rigorously modded, tweaked and customized into something that is playable and enjoyable in the sense the previous titles are. I hope there's not going to be a lot of additional DLC packs that one "needs" to purchase in order to have the "full" experience. I also hope that making Fan Missions for THI4F is going to be possible.

High hopes.

[jay pettitt]

Amnesia / Frictional Games style naturalistic physical interaction with the game world.
Awesome sound design.
Support for the FM community.

[demagogue]

Big open missions (multiple routes), editor, multiplayer to play coop would be fun, focus on stealth gameplay above all, a good story, first person, & I'm not so much of a fan of cutaway takedowns or overly gratuitous violence but acknowledge they're becoming industry standards...

[Goldmoon Dawn]

Looking Glass was a bunch of people who purposely went against the grain, and consequently turned out unique classic games. Ever since the near beginning of crpg there were "industry standards". I dont see why that means that everyone has to comply. I wouldnt expect a company of today, who is trying to make a pile of money, to attempt to do this as well. If you are going to try and make a Thief game though, the hope is that you *would*. Then again, Deadly Shadow paved the way for future mediocrity.

[R Soul]

In that case perhaps our dream should be that some eccentric and very rich person buys EM and tasks them with making a fitting addition to the Thief series and to hell with profit.

[Goldmoon Dawn]

Yes, I realise my way of thinking is long obsolete.

[R Soul]

I didn't mean to sound critical. If our dreams can't be unrealistic they're not worth having! Which brings me to this one:
EM took the leaked source code and are busy revamping it so it looks good enough to compete with modern titles but feels exactly like the first two games and with more life-like AI.

[242]

I want it to be like Stalker:SoC, but in Thief environment.

[Dia]

Spoken like a true S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 242.

I just want T4 to be like TDP & TMA, only updated & upgraded.


As for SoC: I just want STALKER 2.

[demagogue]

I wish there were a game with a big medieval open countryside and some urban areas like Stalker, with some Thief-like sneaking & gameplay... Cruising around Oblivion is cool and all, but it's still just an RPG with wonky gameplay and popups everywhere. Doesn't necessarily have to actually be T4 though... There's something still to be said for individual missions.

[242]

I wish there were a game with a big medieval open countryside and some urban areas like Stalker, with some Thief-like sneaking & gameplay... Cruising around Oblivion is cool and all, but it's still just an RPG with wonky gameplay and popups everywhere. Doesn't necessarily have to actually be T4 though... There's something still to be said for individual missions.

They could be embedded in the open world, something like labs in Stalker. Actually, Deadly Shadows already did that but "the free-roaming world" was rudimentary and laughably small (as well as missions).