btw, where'd str8g8 go?
Lurkers! An answer in 20 minutes!
I didn't know so many actually followed these conversations. Wonder how many more are there.
z-vap: Hey, thanks for the help, we could use it. If you get problems, just PM me; the whole thing might get skethcy, so no question is small enough.
btw, where'd str8g8 go?
incorporated Mugla's last changes
added possible sites for gates in the outer wall
added possible site for Baron's estate: it seems likely that this would be a fortified castle of some kind, the present location would be on clifftops seperating DP from EP
sorry for the gap in posts, been busy with the editor:
(look closely at the street sign)
those cables need laundry hanging from them. otherwise, beautiful.
Very, very nice editor work str8g8. Looks very dark and twisted. Not the kind of road anybody would want to go down in the dead of night, except maybe a thief looking for a little loot
Anyways, the map seems to be coming along great. Just a question though - what's that grey island-type shape in the sea at the bottom? Is it supposed to be the Overlook Mansion?
Yay for str8g8!
Map: Wow, didn't know you were considering a few of those changes. Still, I must ask, why didn't you enlargen Dayport and move Eastport a bit separate? They seem a bit tight and small now.
Anyway, my time will be tighter as of tomorrow, not knowing at all how much spare time I will have. Still, I'll try to atleast pop in for an opinion every now and then.
Street: That colorization is spot on! And the buildings seem from real-life, save the last details like those hanging clothes or a few cracks and filthy water/trash. I wish I could had had time for this.
That Shalebridge road is closer a Thief city than any of TDS. BRICK! OH BRICK WALLS HOW I HAVE MISSED THEE!
I love the pseudo-victorian slum look of it. Seems like a sequel to TII's art.
Glad you liked the screenshot ... though it is just work in progress and needs more details, ... hmmm washing - that's a great idea! And yes, I missed a bit of good old brick, didn't realise until I made the texture and started using it everywhere. Thanks for the encouragement! I might even have the courage to post a screen in the editing forum soon
T-smith: that's overlook mansion, yes, there was a great deal of discussion about it a few pages back.
Mugla, you're right about DP and EP, they do look a bit squashed right now, I realy liked your rearrangement, but Grund's point earlier on in the thread (much earlier on) about it being unnatural for a river to open out into a promontary of land, in real life at least, it tends to form a bay around itself, and so I have tried to at least keep the coastline as flat as possible. But I will probably play around with it a little more and get the right balance.
Sorry to hear you won't be able to post as much, this project needs your astute observations, and willingness to 'get stuck in' with the map. Thanks for all your hard work up to now! I don't think we'd have got this far without you.
Well there are actually such rivers that carry sludge and sand and form a outlet at their end, but these are usually such delta-rivers as Missisippi or Amazon. Anyway, I thought we were making this thing into a hill-side, so the River exits where it is able to. You still can continue the coastline a bit and enlarge Dayport though.
As on my time, I'll see better today what happens. But there won't be graphics anymore, that's nigh certain.
Wow.. i mean wow!
When finding these forums i couldnt imagine this kind of activity!
Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Sam from Sweden. I am a long time fan of the Thief series, and a roleplayer as well. I got this idea of trying to patch up the thief world and fill out some gaps, as well as making a set of rules to roleplay in the thief world. I am currently playing through all the games again taking notes and pictures.
You guys have just made the largest part of the work for me, i am extremely grateful! A map of the city.. and from what i have seen in this thread there are other sites that have the world summarized (keeper library, was the one i found).
I will start writing seriously as soon as i have played through T3 again (in the middle of T2 currently), and when done i will post everything here for sure.
If anyone have anything else like pictures/drawings, information, locations, music (?) and such, everything from the world actually i will gladly accept it! I will stick around here to see what i can dig up.
EDIT: Im sorry i will make this a new topic..
Last edited by Snakeskin; 12th Jul 2005 at 14:34.
Just another lurker here.
I'm working on a mission of the sealed section before it was sealed and I
wanted it to make sense with the rest of the city. So I converted the T1
mission to T2 and ripped out all the debris to figure out what was under it,
and this is what I came up with, hope it helps you a little.
SEE ITEMS 1-7
Sealed Section balck and white
And also a PSD with layers:
Sealed Section photoshop zip
1. I don't think there should be large roads coming to this area, as shown on your city map.
From in game it appears that the street ends with a building that colapsed on itself.
I have a few screenshots.
Street end 1
Street end 2
2. At this location there is a waterwheel that is driven by the water moving to the west.
Also between 2 and 5 there is a drop in water level, 2 being lower.
3. This road should go somewhere north.
4. Both these road look like they would attach to the main map very well.
5. This small street near is a really a hole in the wall, so not really a street.
There is also a section between the red and green streets that I believe that
a building with an archway sunk. screenshot.
Street end 3
6. Auldale street should be the only one in this area the one above it is too close.
EDIT: just looked at the briefing video for M7 and it shows Auldale street as the more northern street.
7. i think the Cathedral should be smaller, but maybe not as small as the one on my map.
There is also a difference in ground levels, as with the river/canal land is higher on
the East side and lower on the West.
And here is some Thief Gold stuff:
The Mage Towers
Song of the Caverns
if images are not available they may be found here:
Last edited by Sxerks; 20th Jul 2008 at 19:06. Reason: image locations
Hallelujah! Thief Gold intel! You don't know how long I've been trying to get ahold of that stuff. Many thanks.
Sorry about my absence, gents. You remember that nasty bug that hit me awhile ago? It came back. Little blighter... Anyway, seeing as Mugla might not have as much time to contribute, I figure I better get my rear in gear and contribute more significantly. Here's hoping.
Oh, and str8g8, awesome looking FM you've got brewing there. You never said you were so multi-talented...
Sxerks: That's pretty in-depth - good work I'll go through it in more detail tonight... Your observations about the direction of the water flow is a bit of a pain not sure what to do about that.
It's funny, I also got into the map project through editor work. Your FM sounds very interesting. One question though: wasn't the sealed section walled up 100s of years ago? or at least before G was born? Are you planning on using another protagonist?
Doc_Brown: multi-talented? Jack of all trades, master of none, I'm afraid. Glad to have you back, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the latest map.
I did crawl through the first 16 pages or so, you can call me lazy bastard, but I'd like to know why Shalebridge Cradle isn't located in Shalebridge?
Also the idea didn't get much discussion that when you start cradle in T3, you actually just walk down a street, ie. G would just know where to walk to proceed on his quest, without the player needing to walk through lots of different districts. Ie. it doesn't mean cradle should be located in old quarter, only that he starts his walk to shalebridge from there.
Also how did shalebridge end up all the way up there? I somehow imagined to be on the same side of river as newmarket, and near old quarter gathering from the quotes from the game.
The rich people would be kind of facing each other (auldale and shalebridge).
Sorry for bad english.
The Cradle had a staff member called Dr. Shalebridge, I could be mistaken but I got the impression that he was the head staff Doctor ... incharge of some of the difficult patients of the White Hall (King No. 1; the woman with the stillborn; the patient with the birdhouses & the woman who takes dance recitals).
Could be unrelated to the district of Shalebridge
It was Dr. SANDbridge as I remember. Shalebridge Cradle ended up in Old Quarter as a result of "shrinking" the City to 5 districts, I presume.Originally Posted by Dussander
str8g8: I figured the water flow would conflict, but I'm sure it can be explained somehow, it would have to have an outlet, maybe back into the river or even the bay.
I also looked at the Haunted Cathedral map and noticed that in the NE where you exit the level, and blow open a gate, there is another street running N-S,could also be running E-W its hard t tell, with buildings and debris and also the sealed wall running N-S.
As for my mission I'm not sure if it will be a long time ago with another protagonist, or more recent, like right before the section got sealed and maybe you would play as a keeper. I'm still playing around with the map to see what is possible, and I still have to find info about the catastrophe.
HERE is the Thief Gold STR files and Goals:
Thief Gold STR
if item is not available it may be found here:
Last edited by Sxerks; 20th Jul 2008 at 19:08. Reason: file location
Well, we did discuss this, though I can forgive people for not reading the whole thread. The cradle IS in Old Quarter, check the cut scene map where it is clearly labeled:
We imagine the Cradle was originally intended to be in Shalebridge (as Spymaster says) but that city area got cut, and so it was relocated but kept the name. (That's just a theory, of course).
Our explanation for the name is that the Cradle was built on Shalebridge Road, which runs from the Cradle all the way to South Quarter marketplace (where it is labeled on AMBUSH map) then north to Shalebridge district. Road names aren't on the current map, but they will be, when the general street plan is settled (soon I hope).
The position of Shalebridge district was quite thoroughly discussed also. It is meant to be on the opposite side of the river from Newmarket (find the quote about the river being low). Also, we have come to the conclusion Shalebridge is a poor district.
Yes, firsttly I'd like to say, that when the mission starts you can see from map that reads "Shalebridge".Originally Posted by str8g8
My theory is that Shalebridge disctict is in the area where shalebridge cradle is on that map. (There just doesn't read shalebridge district)
I did read that quote from early on, and the "at" cought my eye just as yours too, I interpretend precisely because of that that it would be on the same side as newmarket. BUT that interpretation changes by wether the place is rich or poor. If I remember correcty, it being poor was decided because of the looks of old quarter, which doesn't make much sense to me.Originally Posted by str8g8
Also the place would be rich based on the quote "on vacation in shalebridge". But as you say, these can be interpreted in many ways, and only Randy or some other devs could say which is right.
I just wanted to say my opinions about that (which were based on things we find from games)
Good work anyhow!
As a test concept for a tool in GarrettLoader I knocked up this standalone exe.
The exe is simply str8g8's map in a scrollable window (and its far from complete or perfect).
The idea is that it will effectively contain a kind of plan of the city that will help FM authors to decide where to base their FM's.
The tool will allow map and screenshots to be downloaded and added in as well as upgrading the map itself.
NOTE: the UPGRADE menu item does nothing, and the right hand side and bottom of the map get large gray areas if you resize the map after scrolling.
Anyway its just an idea and helps put all your work to use. If you don't think its worth persuing I wont (as it will be a massive amount of work ).
EDIT: upgraded exe (same link) to version 0.02 (says in the programs titlebar), added a grid overlay to the map and a grid square highlighter (doesn't do much at the moment).
Last edited by potterr; 14th Jul 2005 at 18:01. Reason: upgraded exe
Ooooooooh! That is so coooool!!!
Upgraded the exe again from the same link ( http://www.potterdevelopments.org.uk...l?DLID=2224431 ) to version 0.03.
EDIT: sorry at it again, its now version 0.04 with a few more pictures and an alternative for one (thanks to an image Str8g8 posted earlier in the thread).
There are two pictures in the zip as well now, they must be in the same location as the exe is on your PC for the time being.
When you now move your mouse over grid ref 17,6 (grid ref currently shows in the top left of the small map at the bottom right), the grid square highlight image should change. The idea being that the image now shown is a thumbnail of a closeup of that section of map and you would then be able to click on it to bring up a screenshot (you can't at the moment though).
Also the tool is currently hard coded for the image file names included, but will allow for any other 100x100 pixel correctly named jpg files.
Anyway I will make the change to enable scanned image file names (as this would be the way the file upgrades get added in) and leave it for a few days to let you lot discuss its possibilities and how it could be used to improve/build on the topic of this thread.
Last edited by potterr; 14th Jul 2005 at 19:21.
WOW! I'm speechless, that's just such an amazingly good idea! We've been discussing creating web sites, or adding to the Thief world map project, and so on, but that is pure genius.
As a tool it could have many uses - for instance, what about launching FMs, ie clicking on a square brings up the screenshot and a list of FMs available from that location?
It could also link in with all the encylcopeodic knowledge that has accumulated, ie display information and background, points of interest like original missions, and so on.
Thanks porterr - this will give us more incentive to actually finish this project! Please let me know if I can help you in any way.
That's a new idea, certainly. Of course, you realise that it probably mean that the whole map would have to be redrawn, from scratch? OK, just checking.My theory is that Shalebridge disctict is in the area where shalebridge cradle is on that map. (There just doesn't read shalebridge district)
It would mean that the Ambush map (with the To Shalebridge note, and Shlaebridge Road), along with Garrett's apartment, would have to be down by the docks somewhere ... interestingly the guy at Shipping and Recieving who drinks at the Crippled Burrick would not have so far to walk in that case ...)
It would also mean that Newmarket (the quote about crossing the river) is down thereabouts also, this would mean that Hightowne and Downtowne (ASSASSIN map) also would move there somewhere ...
Well, my advice is to draw it and see how it pans out, that's really the test of any theory. I admit the present map isn't perfect (actually it's full of holes) but a perfect map, that fits all the evidence to the letter, is probably impossible.
About Shalebridge being a poor area or a rich area ... well there are 2 contradictory pieces of evidence - firstly the guy from LotP who holidays in Shalebridge implies it is a nice district. But Garrett's words in Ambush about hiding out in Shalebridge implies the opposite - that it is a lawless area where he can lie low without drawing attention to himself. Also Garretts fence is in Taft Avenue, Shalebridge (Shipping and Recieving).
As you say, it all boils down to interpretation ... but we'd have to have a very good reason to change things in such a fundamental way at this point.
I hope I'm not stirring things up too much, but to my eye the current map just seems too huge. But that could just be me.Originally Posted by str8g8
Here is what I came up with based on TDS map
Only to show where I'd put Shalebridge, nothing more
Last edited by sysqc; 15th Jul 2005 at 10:04.