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Thread: Mapping out The City.

  1. #576
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2005
    Location: Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by Dussander
    The Cradle had a staff member called Dr. Shalebridge, I could be mistaken but I got the impression that he was the head staff Doctor ... incharge of some of the difficult patients of the White Hall (King No. 1; the woman with the stillborn; the patient with the birdhouses & the woman who takes dance recitals).

    Could be unrelated to the district of Shalebridge
    It was Dr. SANDbridge as I remember. Shalebridge Cradle ended up in Old Quarter as a result of "shrinking" the City to 5 districts, I presume.

  2. #577
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    str8g8: I figured the water flow would conflict, but I'm sure it can be explained somehow, it would have to have an outlet, maybe back into the river or even the bay.

    I also looked at the Haunted Cathedral map and noticed that in the NE where you exit the level, and blow open a gate, there is another street running N-S,could also be running E-W its hard t tell, with buildings and debris and also the sealed wall running N-S.

    As for my mission I'm not sure if it will be a long time ago with another protagonist, or more recent, like right before the section got sealed and maybe you would play as a keeper. I'm still playing around with the map to see what is possible, and I still have to find info about the catastrophe.

    HERE is the Thief Gold STR files and Goals:
    Thief Gold STR

    EDIT***************
    if item is not available it may be found here:

    http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/TG_resources_in_game_text

    ******************
    Last edited by Sxerks; 20th Jul 2008 at 20:08. Reason: file location

  3. #578
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Well, we did discuss this, though I can forgive people for not reading the whole thread. The cradle IS in Old Quarter, check the cut scene map where it is clearly labeled:

    cradle map

    We imagine the Cradle was originally intended to be in Shalebridge (as Spymaster says) but that city area got cut, and so it was relocated but kept the name. (That's just a theory, of course).

    Our explanation for the name is that the Cradle was built on Shalebridge Road, which runs from the Cradle all the way to South Quarter marketplace (where it is labeled on AMBUSH map) then north to Shalebridge district. Road names aren't on the current map, but they will be, when the general street plan is settled (soon I hope).

    The position of Shalebridge district was quite thoroughly discussed also. It is meant to be on the opposite side of the river from Newmarket (find the quote about the river being low). Also, we have come to the conclusion Shalebridge is a poor district.

    cheers
    str8g8

  4. #579
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    Well, we did discuss this, though I can forgive people for not reading the whole thread. The cradle IS in Old Quarter, check the cut scene map where it is clearly labeled:
    Yes, firsttly I'd like to say, that when the mission starts you can see from map that reads "Shalebridge".

    My theory is that Shalebridge disctict is in the area where shalebridge cradle is on that map. (There just doesn't read shalebridge district)

    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    The position of Shalebridge district was quite thoroughly discussed also. It is meant to be on the opposite side of the river from Newmarket (find the quote about the river being low).
    I did read that quote from early on, and the "at" cought my eye just as yours too, I interpretend precisely because of that that it would be on the same side as newmarket. BUT that interpretation changes by wether the place is rich or poor. If I remember correcty, it being poor was decided because of the looks of old quarter, which doesn't make much sense to me.
    Also the place would be rich based on the quote "on vacation in shalebridge". But as you say, these can be interpreted in many ways, and only Randy or some other devs could say which is right.

    I just wanted to say my opinions about that (which were based on things we find from games)

    Good work anyhow!

  5. #580
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    As a test concept for a tool in GarrettLoader I knocked up this standalone exe.
    http://www.potterdevelopments.org.uk...l?DLID=2224431

    The exe is simply str8g8's map in a scrollable window (and its far from complete or perfect).
    The idea is that it will effectively contain a kind of plan of the city that will help FM authors to decide where to base their FM's.
    The tool will allow map and screenshots to be downloaded and added in as well as upgrading the map itself.
    NOTE: the UPGRADE menu item does nothing, and the right hand side and bottom of the map get large gray areas if you resize the map after scrolling.
    Anyway its just an idea and helps put all your work to use. If you don't think its worth persuing I wont (as it will be a massive amount of work ).

    EDIT: upgraded exe (same link) to version 0.02 (says in the programs titlebar), added a grid overlay to the map and a grid square highlighter (doesn't do much at the moment).
    Last edited by potterr; 14th Jul 2005 at 19:01. Reason: upgraded exe

  6. #581
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Ryleth
    Ooooooooh! That is so coooool!!!

  7. #582
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    Upgraded the exe again from the same link ( http://www.potterdevelopments.org.uk...l?DLID=2224431 ) to version 0.03.
    EDIT: sorry at it again, its now version 0.04 with a few more pictures and an alternative for one (thanks to an image Str8g8 posted earlier in the thread).

    There are two pictures in the zip as well now, they must be in the same location as the exe is on your PC for the time being.
    When you now move your mouse over grid ref 17,6 (grid ref currently shows in the top left of the small map at the bottom right), the grid square highlight image should change. The idea being that the image now shown is a thumbnail of a closeup of that section of map and you would then be able to click on it to bring up a screenshot (you can't at the moment though).
    Also the tool is currently hard coded for the image file names included, but will allow for any other 100x100 pixel correctly named jpg files.
    Anyway I will make the change to enable scanned image file names (as this would be the way the file upgrades get added in) and leave it for a few days to let you lot discuss its possibilities and how it could be used to improve/build on the topic of this thread.
    Last edited by potterr; 14th Jul 2005 at 20:21.

  8. #583
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    WOW! I'm speechless, that's just such an amazingly good idea! We've been discussing creating web sites, or adding to the Thief world map project, and so on, but that is pure genius.

    As a tool it could have many uses - for instance, what about launching FMs, ie clicking on a square brings up the screenshot and a list of FMs available from that location?

    It could also link in with all the encylcopeodic knowledge that has accumulated, ie display information and background, points of interest like original missions, and so on.

    Thanks porterr - this will give us more incentive to actually finish this project! Please let me know if I can help you in any way.

    cheers
    str8g8

  9. #584
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    My theory is that Shalebridge disctict is in the area where shalebridge cradle is on that map. (There just doesn't read shalebridge district)
    That's a new idea, certainly. Of course, you realise that it probably mean that the whole map would have to be redrawn, from scratch? OK, just checking.

    It would mean that the Ambush map (with the To Shalebridge note, and Shlaebridge Road), along with Garrett's apartment, would have to be down by the docks somewhere ... interestingly the guy at Shipping and Recieving who drinks at the Crippled Burrick would not have so far to walk in that case ...)

    It would also mean that Newmarket (the quote about crossing the river) is down thereabouts also, this would mean that Hightowne and Downtowne (ASSASSIN map) also would move there somewhere ...

    Well, my advice is to draw it and see how it pans out, that's really the test of any theory. I admit the present map isn't perfect (actually it's full of holes) but a perfect map, that fits all the evidence to the letter, is probably impossible.

    About Shalebridge being a poor area or a rich area ... well there are 2 contradictory pieces of evidence - firstly the guy from LotP who holidays in Shalebridge implies it is a nice district. But Garrett's words in Ambush about hiding out in Shalebridge implies the opposite - that it is a lawless area where he can lie low without drawing attention to himself. Also Garretts fence is in Taft Avenue, Shalebridge (Shipping and Recieving).

    As you say, it all boils down to interpretation ... but we'd have to have a very good reason to change things in such a fundamental way at this point.

    cheers
    str8g8

  10. #585
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    Well, my advice is to draw it and see how it pans out
    I hope I'm not stirring things up too much, but to my eye the current map just seems too huge. But that could just be me.
    Here is what I came up with based on TDS map
    Only to show where I'd put Shalebridge, nothing more
    Last edited by sysqc; 15th Jul 2005 at 11:04.

  11. #586
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    OK, that's kind of interesting.

    A few questions: Is your New Market the market place that we see in the Ambush map? What is GY? What is the area marked home?

    First thing that struck me: check out page 12 of this thread (I think) and read Mugla list of evidence. There you'll read:

    2.3. Shalebridge to NE (Ambush!, T2)
    Your map shows Shalebridge SE of ambush map, (if I am reading it correctly).

    And you're not stirring things up, a fresh perspective is always welcome.

    cheers
    str8g8

  12. #587
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    It's not the marketplace on ambush. GY is graveyard.. I just wanted to put that somewhere near fort ironwood, and also make like it look like in ambush -map.
    I did read the evidence page, and I'm desperately trying to get more space for shalesbridge, but that means old quarter gets smaller, and considering the size of sealed area... well, I'd like to think that in the northeast (in ambush) is a passageway to shalebridge road, or whatever is the name of the big road which comes from the bridge down the lowest.
    Area marked home is hometurf as in the assassins map. I'm having difficulties locating it *under* new market, and would like to know why is it evidence that it should be under new market? I only see from assassins that it's more like SE, or E.
    I like the location of downtowne in it.. It is in the middle of 4 districts, it would deserve the name (same place where in your first alternative map).

  13. #588
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Is this inactivity a vacuum-abhorring -effect?
    Nice work there new people, hope you stick around.

    str8g8: Yes, try that new alternative if you can. I do remember a part in T1 05-cutscene, where G. meets Con. You can hear seagulls, and see the 'edge', meaning the waterfront quite close in the beginning. But, that's just an irrelevant piece for you, isn't it.
    And we need an update on that evidence-page, a more filled and closer to new-people.

    sysqc: Hometurf expanded under it as the current placing required it. No real reason at all, so go ahead and try the other alternative and tell us what happens. You might also have to lower SQ to reach over the Docks-text in that map. So, where are you from Finland anyway?

    potterr: I hope you can stay and upgrade that a few times after we're finished? That's one hellova piece of a tool there.

  14. #589
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    EDIT: version 0.05 uploaded now, same link as before. This has 3 grids with images but only 2 ini files for them (read info below) this means that only 2 of the cells should be clickable.
    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    It could also link in with all the encylcopeodic knowledge that has accumulated, ie display information and background, points of interest like original missions, and so on.

    Thanks porterr - this will give us more incentive to actually finish this project! Please let me know if I can help you in any way.
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    potterr: I hope you can stay and upgrade that a few times after we're finished? That's one hellova piece of a tool there.
    You should see the next version.
    Ok just to explain:
    • The tool needs the map image to be 2244x1911 pixels, but could effectively have any image there (its hard coded at the moment though rather than picked up externally to the program)
    • It is broken down into 100x100 pixel cells (note the extra 44x11 pixels is used as padding), this means that it can have 22X19=418 sections (although the grid can be made 50x50 if be, although its set at 100x100 so that the GarrettLoader title image for FM's can be used (read the GarrettLoader Help file)).
    • The same would apply to the world map as well.
    • Its possible to do alot of things with the map, i.e. launch FM's (bit tricky to accomplish though but possible) or provide location descriptions like str8g8 said. However I have taken a slightly different approach at the moment in doing a basic 3D map of the grid ref....see below
    • The tool itself will be part of GarrettLoader so it will be able to use the zip functions for upgrades and hook into alot of the other tools as well.


    3D mapping:
    Now this is big and to be honest will probably take many months to complete...however I hope I have coded it to allow the community to build the city without needing me to do anything . This will in turn mean I can release this as a development tool long before the city is completed. Basically this allows you to build a basic wireframe model of the area (just building positions and stuff).

    As you can see its really basic, however as the objects are compiled from an ini file for each section, this means anyone can add to them over time....although how I am going to create a tool to plot the points I really have no idea, that is a task in itself

    I hope this will be a good incentive to keep going with this as I see this and GarrettLoader as very much a community project.
    Last edited by potterr; 15th Jul 2005 at 15:37.

  15. #590
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    Just thought I would explain the ini file stuff so you can have a go at building more buildings...The 10_6.ini file is the more complete one (the other does not have an info section).

    The [POINTS] section
    Num = 32 'this = the number of points that are drawn (however we start from 0 so the highest number will be 31)

    'x,y,z
    0=-40,-30,40
    1=40,-30,40
    2=40,-30,-40
    3=-40,-30,-40
    4=-40,-29,40
    5=40,-29,40
    6=40,-29,-40
    7=-40,-29,-40

    This is the first object, it has 6 faces made up of 8 points, and will always be the ground in the 3d view. Most of them are minus numbers so that the floor appears to be looked down on. Starting from point 0, this is 40 left from center, 30 below center and 40 forward from center (front left corner), point 1 is front right corner, etc.

    The [PLANES] section
    Num=24 ' number of line used to make teh faces of the objects

    0=0,1,2,3
    1=7,6,5,4
    2=1,5,6,2
    3=0,4,5,1
    4=0,3,7,4
    5=3,2,6,7

    Ok, this is effectively a join the dots exercise, 0= POINT 0 connects to POINT 1, connects to POINT 2, connects to POINT 3, making the underside of the ground. point 1, is the upper side of the ground. NOTE it is important to follow the number patterns for each object otherwise you can cause a mess.

    The [OBJECTS] section
    Num=4 ' number of objects starting from 0 (0 always being the ground)
    [OBJECT0]
    Planes=0,1,2,3,4,5
    Desc=Ground
    Axis=1
    Offset=0,0,0
    Points=0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7

    Ok the object number should appear to the right of the word OBJECT (its easy to follow if you look in the ini itself). Planes = what object faces make up this object (in theory, although I havent tried yet, you should be able to make L shapped or other shaped objects rather than 2 joined together). The desc is a description of what it is (alpha numeric characters only). the Axis is what axis to turn on (these should all be the same for each object otherwise you can end up with buildings flying off the ground). Offset is how off from the center the turn rotation should be (bets to keep at 0). Points are what points are used to make the object (must match up with the way the planes are constructed).

    The [LINKS] section
    Num=4 ' this indicates what objects are joined, all objects should be joined to object 0 (after the first comma) unless you do a roof (good luck to you) in which case it should be the object its joined to.
    Angle0=0,0,-1,0
    Angle1=1,0,-1,0
    Angle2=2,0,-1,0
    Angle3=3,0,-1,0


    The [INFO] section
    Name=Shalebridge Road In ShaleBridge
    Missions=ShaleBridge Road
    Info=a bit of info about the area

    This speaks for itself really. Note, all content here should be on the same line (multilines may not work).

    Anyway give it a go and let me know what you create (you can leave the map open but not the 3d view when you edit). It is painstaking work to begin with and can be very confusing but once you get the hang of it it should be fairly quick to do stuff with (I will get round to doing some kind of editor at some point...which will be a nightmare to build).

  16. #591
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

    Notes from Mission 15

    In Mission 15, the Thieves Guild. There are a few references to other people. Most of the mission takes place down in the sewers, so actual "places" may not be directly referenced.

    spoiler:
    This note was found with one of the bosses (Donal) right hand man, Magrin. Note the 5th line down.

    NOTES TO SELF

    - Fence loot from Lord Brosius job
    - Transfer funds to foreign accounts
    - Have Fredrik killed for disloyalty
    - Feed kitty
    - Meet with Lady Vallerius for info on Lord B.
    - Hide key to Donal's Master Safe behind the secret panel in my room

    She's a blue blood that is reference heavily in the Opera mission (17). And they're talking about Brosius.


    Here's a page from the Accounts Payable from the Donal boss
    spoiler:
    768 Entertainment Exp.
    236 Info from Viktoria
    494 Cleaning
    982 Air Freshener
    245 Surveillance
    385 Bribe to Deputy Meffan
    100 Info from Court Jester Teichholtz
    150 Bribe to Capt. Pearsall
    625 Deliveries from Lesser Hrabota
    1,300 Kickback for Constable Mahk
    320 Downwinder Solus contract

    Notice the second payout.


    Again not sure if any of it means anything for the maps

  17. #592
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

    Notes from Mission 16

    Here are several Notes from the Mages Guild mission.

    spoiler:
    To Adept Al-Hayr,

    Lt. Scarle disobeyed Capt. Regalio’s specific orders and ventured into the Tower of Fire. Needless to say he was ill prepared to deal with the trials of flame and lava that await all entrants. The charred corpse was brought to the laboratories where it will be put to good use. The fire can cleanse us, but it is not for the Commons. See to it that this incident serves as an example to others.

    -Archmage Kahmin Ramin


    I can finally get back to work, my apologies for being behind schedule on the new round of vivisection. The workmen have finally cleared out, having just finished walling up the last main entrance to those infernal sewers. The old sewers are still largely unmapped, but present too much of a security risk to be left. I find it amazing that they reach back to the city despite our distance from it. There is still the one secret entrance that we can use to traverse the sewers. The guards that patrol it will deal with anything unfortunate enough to struggle out of that muck.

    - Adept Haseki Beyzar


    Recovering the golden medallion of Saint Burringden will reward all the sweat I put into the endless hunt for those damned talismans. By selling it I will surely make some profit off of this ordeal. In all my years of service to the Hand I have never seen their efforts so thoroughly stymied. It’s almost as though one of their own had taken and hidden the talismans so completely that not even the archmages can find them.

    - Capt. E. F. Regalio


    Cellarer Abrucha,

    We urgently need the chemicals last requested. Two days hence we’ll be sending young Lucca to the city. Have one of your helpers accompany him. Also, see if you can add 3 goats, a camel, and a burrick to the animals gathered for the next round of experiments.

    - Adept Haseki Beyzar


    Kinda interesting regarding Captains. These kinda show that the mages are somewhat removed from the city but not far away enough, since they're using police guards (Capt's, Lt's) and the sewer and travel references.

  18. #593
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

    New Keepers Map

    Oops, almost forgot this one.



    Looks like they updated the keepers map with new talisman locations.

  19. #594
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Well, I was gonna do some overhead screenies of Mission 15 and 17 to show some directional observations, but it looks like my install has gone bonkers for some reason.

  20. #595
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Lots going on here at the moment, I'm trying to keep up!

    porterr: i donwloaded the latest upadate and it's looking good. Though i gotta say, plotting 3d models by hand is no fun at all, for anybody. Have you considered using the editor as your modeller? I think you can export an unreal text file (.t3d or something) which must be an open format, and it would be easy to build those simple shapes in the editor. All in all though, that's an awful lot of work where just a screenshot of the area would suffice? It does look cool though (just make sure you don't spread youself too thin! - I know how that feels ...)

    thanks to those who posted Thief Gold info but I don't see much that helps is with the map. Maybe I am missing something.

    I do remember a part in T1 05-cutscene, where G. meets Con. You can hear seagulls, and see the 'edge', meaning the waterfront quite close in the beginning. But, that's just an irrelevant piece for you, isn't it
    mugla: Do I detect a note of sarcasm? I hope not. No information is irrelevant to me. You know as well as I do that the problem is more often fragmentary and circumstantial evidence and we all have to use our judgement as best we can. Constantine's mansion is currently located by the river in North Quarter ... I don't remember gulls myself, but gulls can travel quite far inland up an estuary, so that's fine.

    sysqc: I'm still interested in what you have to say about Shalebridge, but I have little enough time to work on my map, let alone someone else's. You will have to pursue your ideas yourself until they become the accepted wisdom. But I gotta say, the Ambush map has to be SW of Shalebridge, and I don't see how that can work with your layout.

    Remember what happens in Ambush? You start out at the Crippled Burrick and have to make your way to the north of the map to the Old Gate to get to Shalebridge or whatever? None of this makes sense in your layout. That's a big hurdle to overcome.

    My advice is to keep an open mind and not get too attached to any single idea ... or you lose balance, as the Keepers might say. For instance, I still think the talisman map z-vap posted shows the main river, but ... well ... sometimes you have to let go.

    z-vap: the mages towers are a bit of a puzzle. I think they are marked on the Thief World Map about a mile from the City. I guess there are explanations: perhaps they built on the foundations of an abandoned fort that was some kind of outpost of the city, and so were connected to the sewers and so on.

    cheers
    str8g8

  21. #596
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    sysqc: I'm still interested in what you have to say about Shalebridge, but I have little enough time to work on my map, let alone someone else's. You will have to pursue your ideas yourself until they become the accepted wisdom. But I gotta say, the Ambush map has to be SW of Shalebridge, and I don't see how that can work with your layout.
    My idea was solely the placement of Shalebridge in the same area with Shalebridge cradle. After that, I just played around with the idea that not all of the "known" districts are written on the "official" thief3 map.
    But, I have to dissagree with Shalebridge not being to the NE of ambush. Maybe you haven't checked out the new map I made (I've been working on it for the past 2 days. And I do mean the past 2 days, as WHOLE! DAMN YOU PEOPLE FOR GETTING ME AN ADDICTION! )? Although I must admit it's a bit vague.
    With that arrangement, one would start from the docks district in Ambush!.
    I would be mighty glad to receive more points of errors from all about my interpretation!
    (Remember; my goal was to put every known district inside the T3 map.)
    Thanks!

  22. #597
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    My idea was solely the placement of Shalebridge in the same area with Shalebridge cradle. After that, I just played around with the idea that not all of the "known" districts are written on the "official" thief3 map.
    No, I hadn't seen the new map. I think it has thrown up some interesting things. For instance, it means Garrett lives in the Docks in T2. It also makes the map a lot smaller overall. But there's a lot to like about your new map.

    Some more things to throw at you:

    17. "Raputo, Warden of North Quarter, Shalebridge, Newmarket, New Quarter. Webster, Warden of Docks, Eastport, Dayport." (Ramirez's papers, T1)
    In our layout the warden's districts form contiguous areas, whereas in yours they spread out; for instance, Shalebridge (operated by Raputo) is right in the middle of Webster's territory (between Docks and Eastport).


    38. "I've never seen the river so low. You can almost walk across at Shalebridge.""Wouldn't New Market love that." (Baffords servants, T1)
    Also, can you explain the servants comments in light of your layout?

    But what does everyone else think?

    cheers
    str8g8

  23. #598
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2005

    Timeline

    I think this is the most ambitious and investigated fan-made project I have ever seen and thats the reason why I just joined I didn't think it was possible to recreate the city just from small maps in the games and statements of npc's!
    I don't think I'd be much help with mapping out the city, but are you planning to recreate, say, some kind of timeline for the city too? Some important events (like the fire and zombie incident of the sealed Old Quarter), landmarks, who built them, influential and other important people and so on? Placing families like Alarus and Quintus correctly into the history of the city, what they did in their lifetime and so on?
    If so, I'd be very happy to play trough the games again to find some details about the history of the city and bring some more depth into this awesome project.
    Keep up to great work!
    Greetz,
    SteffL

  24. #599
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by sysqc
    I hope I'm not stirring things up too much, but to my eye the current map just seems too huge. But that could just be me.
    Sadly, sysqc, I'm going to have to go with 'it's probably just you'. If anything, the map that str8g8 has produced is SMALLISH in comparison to the concept of the City, and the neighbourhoods listed seem much larger than they ought to be. Part of that, of course, is that we're never given all the area names in the Thief games. There may be another twenty or thirty district names that we've never heard, because Garret doesn't frequent those areas.

    To me, the City is larger than any other fantasy metropolis conceived - a mesh of Lankhmar, Sanctuary and London that sprawls out to the countryside.

  25. #600
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Just a quick note (sorry if old news): the assassins map and the keeper map fit together perfectly, even without resizing.
    So the roads can be copied pretty straight from assassins map.

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