Thief 1/2 & SShock 2: DDFix and Enhanced Resolution Patch - discussion

[Simplex]

Biker, I guess that when you are using 1400x1050, the image is pillarboxed (black stripes on the edges) to maintain aspect ratio - how do you achieve this? Is the aspect ratio maintained by the NEC monitor, or by video card?

I am asking because I also wanted to run thief (and other games that do not support widescreen) in the highest possible resolution for my monior (20'' LG, also 1680x1050). I added custom resolution in the nVidia control panel, but when I switch to it, the image is stretched on the whole space (no pillarboxing) so it is useless.

Perhaps if I learn how you achieved properly scaled 1400x1050 resolution on your screen, I will be able to do the same - especially that we both have 8x00 series graphics card.

Simplex

[Timeslip]

Umm, I don't seem to find either one of those locations in my exe, even in a completely original, unmodified exe.

Those addresses are in process space, not file space. You need to translate back. I'll look them up later if you don't know how.

Perhaps if I learn how you achieved properly scaled 1400x1050 resolution on your screen, I will be able to do the same - especially that we both have 8x00 series graphics card.

I can do it on mine from the 'change flat panel scaling' page in the control panel. There are options for using the monitor to scale, using the video card to scale, using the video card to scale while keeping the aspect ratio fixed, (i.e. adding in the black borders, the option you want,) and not scaling at all. (displays the image as a box in the center of the monitor.)

I assume those options only work if your monitor has some way of telling the graphics card that it is a flatpanel and what its native resolution is.

[Simplex]

I am using DVI connection so it should help. Additionally, when I run a resolution such as 1024x768 then it is properly scaled.
I set the custom res 1400x1050 with "keep aspect ratio" option but the picture was still stretched.
Which version of drivers do you use and what type of connection?
Also, how exactly did you configure the custom resolution?
Sorry for being so inquisitive, but I reall want to be able to set the 1400x1050 resolution with proper aspect ratio

EDIT: my bad, I thought biker answered my question, so the questions above were meant for biker since he has similar graphics card to ime

[Timeslip]

I am using DVI connection so it should help. Additionally, when I run a resolution such as 1024x768 then it is properly scaled.
I set the custom res 1400x1050 with "keep aspect ratio" option but the picture was still stretched.
Which version of drivers do you use and what type of connection?
Also, how exactly did you configure the custom resolution?
Sorry for being so inquisitive, but I reall want to be able to set the 1400x1050 resolution with proper aspect ratio

EDIT: my bad, I thought biker answered my question, so the questions above were meant for biker since he has similar graphics card to ime

I'm also using an 8800, so I think I can join in too.

I have two monitors, both connected by dvi, and the control panel recognises their name, model number and native resolution correctly. You add custom resolutions from the 'manage custom resolutions' page in the control panel, appropriatly enough. Dunno what driver version you need, but I'm using 169.something at the moment, and the scaling thing was in the last set of drivers I was using, which I think were the whatever came out last before 163.xx. (I don't think I ever tested it with the older drivers, so if your having trouble with it maybe it was broken and only actually works in 169.xx. )

Edit: Oh, you were using 169 already. Never mind then.

[Simplex]

Even better that you both have 8x00 card

I am using 169.21 - the last official WHQL drivers for 8x00 series (from 19th of December). I tried adding custom resolution with keep aspect ratio scaling and so far it has no effect, but I will experiment. Maybe I try to install different drivers. I just wanted to make sure that the aspect ratio scaling is done by the graphics card, not monitor. There are some monitors (like EIZO) that allow this but sadly my LG does not have this option.

[bikerdude]

Biker, I guess that when you are using 1400x1050, the image is pillarboxed (black stripes on the edges) to maintain aspect ratio - how do you achieve this? Is the aspect ratio maintained by the NEC monitor, or by video card?

Perhaps if I learn how you achieved properly scaled 1400x1050 resolution on your screen, I will be able to do the same - especially that we both have 8x00 series graphics card.Simplex

The scaling on my NEC is very good, and ive set up to fill the screen, rather than 1:1 mapping. I have tested the scalling by using the nVidia control panel and its equally as good.

You can assign 1:1 pixel mapping in the nvidia control panel, but you should be able to do it via your monitors menu aswell... I dont mind having mine streched, its better than pillar boxed as most monitors have some backlight bleed which then can be very noticable when in game ruining the atmosphere - even on my pro NEC.

biker

[Hiatus]

Timeslip

just re-looked at ddfix.ini from 1.1.1 to see what's missing in 1.2/1.3 compared to that. Notably, AA setting is missing from .ini currently. AFAIR you mentioned that DX6 AA is currently broken in Nvidia drivers (wasn't aware that AA was DX version related, btw ) but could you consider re-adding this option at least for ATI users for now (maybe NV will fix it as well one day so it'll be universal)? That would be nice to be able to set it permanently in .ini, and don't have to mess (or even install) control panel apps, create profiles etc.

ps another thing that came to my mind recently: as we know Thief is DX6 app, graphics wise. Current versions of ddfix (1.2+) are also (or rather ddfixed Thief) DX6 app. But 1.0/1.1 were DX9 (again, as we know ). Do you think that the fact that ddfixed Thief still uses DX6 could potentially lead to it being broken completely by upcoming DX11 and beyond hardware from NV/ATI (and by their accompanying drivers) - or even by upcoming 2nd gen DX10 parts and their respective drivers? Because they apparently don't care about DX6 compability at all at this point and if sth from that era/using this API ver still works (as ddfixed Thief), it's probably a matter of pure luck that functions it uses are not broken or even worse - deliberately removed from the drivers (ok, maybe exaggerate a bit but DX9 is much better supported now and for the next couple of years, I assume). And in future, they'll be caring about DX6 even less (or simply not at all), I think. So in that regard/perspective, DX9 version of ddfix IMO had a much higher chance of being/staying viable for much longer for users (as DX9 is still not an obsolete API and being actively supported now and in nearer future). These are only my observations, and I'm certainly not trying to talk you into getting back to DX9 or anything of that sort (as I know that DX9->DX6 move solved many problems with ddfix), but what do you think about this whole situation (yes, I know it's hard to predict such things and so on, but still some trends can be noticed with how PC/Windows graphics industry operates and what it can lead to)? Do you think my pessimism regarding that is justified? (In closing: I wonder if/when we might need another ddfix (metaphorically) to fix ddfixed Thief .)

[Simplex]

The scaling on my NEC is very good, and ive set up to fill the screen, rather than 1:1 mapping. I have tested the scalling by using the nVidia control panel and its equally as good.

I can set it up to fill the whole screen, but personally I don't like that because aspect ratio is incorrect and everything looks "fatter".

You can assign 1:1 pixel mapping in the nvidia control panel, but you should be able to do it via your monitors menu aswell... I dont mind having mine streched, its better than pillar boxed as most monitors have some backlight bleed which then can be very noticable when in game ruining the atmosphere - even on my pro NEC.

From what I understood from user manual to my monitor I may have to switch to analog (d-sub) output in order to be able to set 4:3 proportions via my monitor setting. I'll check it this evening.
Biker, are you able to set 1400x1050 res with pillarboxing using the drivers, not the monitor settings?

[gothic251]

Those addresses are in process space, not file space. You need to translate back. I'll look them up later if you don't know how.

Wha? I though I was technologically adept. Obviously not... Yea, any help you can give is greatly appreciated.

[bikerdude]

Biker, are you able to set 1400x1050 res with pillarboxing using the drivers, not the monitor settings?

Ill check when I get home this evening

biker

[Simplex]

Thanks in advance

Do you and Timeslip both use 169.21 drivers?

And what exactly models of 8800 you have? GTX, GTS, Ultra, GT?

[poroshin]

The solution (if not given already) is to install indeo video codecs (iv5_play.exe i think) and to register lgvid.ax using regsrv32. All this can be found in the technical FAQ. If this does not work for you, then simply watch the avi files in any video player, outside thief. It's better than not seeing them at all.

Anyway, this is not a proper thread to write about your videos issue, this is the thread for DDfix.

Sorry, I'm only writing in this thread, because DDfix is supposed to fix the codec issue. For some reason, for me it doesn't, so I was just asking whether there was another way. I'll try reinstalling the codecs once again. Is there even a possibility to reencode the videos and use a modern codec to play them, or would that require work beyond DDfix?

[bikerdude]

Do you and Timeslip both use 169.21 drivers?And what exactly models of 8800 you have? GTX, GTS, Ultra, GT?

I have an EVGA 8800Ultra SuperClocked w/169.44 & 174.40beta driver

I'll try reinstalling the codecs once again. Is there even a possibility to reencode the videos and use a modern codec to play them, or would that require work beyond DDfix?

Hi Its simplier to install the appropriate codec pack, I suggest the klite codec pack. Re-coding all the videos in a different codec is not going to work as thief will be expecting it in indeo format, ddfix not withstanding.

biker

[poroshin]

I have the newest K-Lite installed actually. But I also installed the standalone Indeo package. I will try also the package off Disc Two of Thief Gold. I'll give up then.

As for reencoding, I suppose we'd need the source code to be able to change the codec Thief expects?

[Timeslip]

just re-looked at ddfix.ini from 1.1.1 to see what's missing in 1.2/1.3 compared to that. Notably, AA setting is missing from .ini currently. AFAIR you mentioned that DX6 AA is currently broken in Nvidia drivers (wasn't aware that AA was DX version related, btw ) but could you consider re-adding this option at least for ATI users for now (maybe NV will fix it as well one day so it'll be universal)? That would be nice to be able to set it permanently in .ini, and don't have to mess (or even install) control panel apps, create profiles etc.

AA in DX 6 is completely different to DX8 and 9. (Not sure what it's like in 7 - I've never looked.) There's no 2x, 4x, 8x mode or whatever, it's either on or off. Combined with the locking problem, and the way I can't test it to make sure it's working, I don't really want to add it, because graphics driver support is better.

(In closing: I wonder if/when we might need another ddfix (metaphorically) to fix ddfixed Thief .)

If anyone dares break thief again, I'm going to write a software rasterizer for it. We'd never have to worry about graphics drivers again.

Actually, I did already make a half hearted attempt at writing a software renderer for thief. It was running at about 5 fps on my E6600 before I'd even started on texture support, so we've got another couple of processor generations to go yet before it's feasable.

[bikerdude]

I have the newest K-Lite installed actually. But I also installed the standalone Indeo package. I will try also the package off Disc Two of Thief Gold. I'll give up then.

Remove all codecs your currently have installed and just install the k-lite pack, also make sure you tick the option for the indeo codecs (I forgot to mention that)

As for reencoding, I suppose we'd need the source code to be able to change the codec Thief expects?

No Effence dude, but it would be a wast of time.

biker

[qolelis]

Just bringing back windowed mode

Yay, that makes me a happy puppy I'll wait for version 1.4 then.

It changes the screen resolution back, but any windows you had open and maximized sometimes don't get resized to fit the screen, and stay the same size that thief was running at instead.

This is what happens to me when going into game mode from within DromEd and back again to edit mode (using ddfix 1.3.9b). I run my desktop in 1600x1200, but DromEd can only go as high as 1280x1024 and the windows I have open behaves exactly as Timeslip described.

Side notes (I thought I could at least mention them - for what it's worth):

• While waiting for 1.4 I use two versions of ddfixed DromEds, one with ddfix 1.1 for the windowed mode (no fog, but it's enough for doing especially brushwork) and one with ddfix 1.3.9b for checking out fog.
• The first time I patched DromEd with ddfix 1.3.9b I changed both occurences of "ddraw.dll". When I started DromEd I was told that I didn't have DirectX 7 or higher installed (even though I do have DirectX 9.0b installed) and DromEd didn't start. Then I replaced only the first occurrence and this time DromEd worked as intended. I later tested replacing only the second occurrence and this gave me the message about needing to install DirectX 7 or higher.

[doninss]

I decided to install T2 on the grand-kids computer hoping they might be drawn in the way I was. (You can lead a horse to water...) Installed fine, but refused to go past the menu. I tried the usual (single core, codecs, safe_texture...), but no dice. <_< I had almost given up when I happened upon ddfix.

Again, thanks.

[poroshin]

Remove all codecs your currently have installed and just install the k-lite pack, also make sure you tick the option for the indeo codecs (I forgot to mention that)

I tried that twice and no go. Finally solved my problem by uninstalling K-Lite and installing the codec off the Thief Gold CD. Now DDfixed Thief runs perfectly! I suppose when reinstalling K-Lite I'll need to make sure to check OFF anything Indeo.

[bikerdude]

Biker, are you able to set 1400x1050 res with pillarboxing using the drivers, not the monitor settings?

Hi Simplex

There are option in the nvidia control panel to adjust the scaling..



biker

[Simplex]

Yeah, I was aware of those options but the picture was stretched even if I set the scaling to "aspect ratio" - that was on WHQL 169.21 drivers. When I installed latest beta (174 something) the problem dissapeared. I am now able to enjoy thief in 1400x1050 with 1:1 pixel mapping Thanks a lot for making me realise I can use this resolution

[poroshin]

I also have a 20-inch widescreen monitor and a native resolution of 1680x1050. I have an nVidia 8800 GTX card, but I have the 169.25 drivers. I see on Guru3D there are 174.85 drivers already. Hopefully I'll also be able to run Thief in a higher resolution, because I too set the aspect ration like in that screenshot and set the 1400x1050 resolution manually in the ini files but the game was stretched...

Nope, just installed the new driver, set the scaling and no, the menu is still stretched, and trying to start a level cause the game to crash.

[Simplex]

the same resolution has to be set up in ddfix.ini and cam.cfg

also, try 174.74 it works for me. The latest driver is not always the best.

[poroshin]

Yup, entered the same resolutions into both inis. Oh well, running as it is it's very very good, flawless. I'm forcing AA/AF via the nVidia control panel, so there's no real room for improvement, unless widescreen can be worked out somehow.

[Kolya]

This is a question for Timeslip:
I would like to include the DDfix with the SS2 tool which collects several bug fixes and useful tasks specific to System Shock 2. Is this okay with you?