Anything can be justified as long as the results are cool and/or interesting. Case in point, Rocksbourg 3: not realistic at all (even within the visual context of the Thief universe), but cool and interesting.
Indeed. Realism and atmosphere can be completely seperate. I think Shadowhide missed my point. I'm not saying that the bright blue fog is bad because it's unrealistic, I'm saying it doesn't work because it appears to kill the atmosphere (at least based on what I can see in those screenies). If it was toned down and desaturated a lot, it would look better (without necessarily being any more realistic).
And if it were explained in the context of the mission. That's why my "why so blue?" question (all double meanings aside), is there a reason for the blues?
Last edited by hopper; 17th May 2010 at 21:20.
TDS has Keeper Elders carry wands on their belt, but I don't like the TDS wand design. This is my interpretation of a Keeper wand. It echos the TDS one without duplicating it.
KeeperWand..jpg
Edit: Added prongs to the bezel holding the jewel. More like the original TDS version.
KeeperWand2..jpg
Last edited by LarryG; 18th May 2010 at 19:13.
Heavy is the Hammer
Bars, Bars, and more Bars, and not the drinking, fun type !
Very nice screens Rod. Can't wait to see the prisoners
Thanks Max, If all goes well, and if Dromed remains the Pooty Tat for a while longer, it should see beta-testing soon.
I have finally reached my goal of getting the terrain brush count below 4000 and currently I have 3982 terrain brushes. I was even able to add a few interiors. I still have a number of blind windows to add, though, but I can either replace some brushes with objects, or with custom textures in some cases, or continue removing brushes as before (by rebuilding and/or simplifying).
Cool qolelis, I admire your diligence. Objects dont add to the cell count, so that is safe. I will resume work on my big Project "DITL" as soon as I release the Summer Ciontest entry.
I bit off probably more than I could chew on it. I may end up splitting it up into 2 missions yet.
The mis file was at 17.6 megs fully optimised, and I haven't added AI, or objects yet. Dromed is teaching me my limits.
Good luck on Your massive project too
Speaking of cell count, I remember fighting that once too (about two years ago (yeah, same mission...)) and had to remove all of my sewers.Originally Posted by darthsLair
I've seen mentioned 4000 as an approximate limit for the number of terrain brushes, but I never noticed any strange effects from having more than that (~4700). Nevertheless, I willmost likelyneed those 700 extra brushes for other things. Now I should finish decorating all interiors, add more objects and room brush everything (though I might keep on trying to rebuild areas to use less terrain brushes while I'm at it).
The total brush limit is around 7000-8000 IIRC. That includes terrain brushes, room brushes, objects - everything.
Digital Nightfall can probably give more detailed limits.
If you have 6900 brushes or more, you can't portalize/optimize.
So I still don't know which limit is "total" - you can add much more object/room/flow brushes without portalizing.
4000 seems total limit for terrain brushes.
4000 is total limit for objects (can be expanded more but leads to bugs), 999 - for room brushes...
Have anybody tried to reach ALL these limits at once? I count 8999 + unknown limit for flow.
I'm getting worryingly close to some of this limits already, considering how much I have left to build. Might have to split this beast into 2 or even 3 missions.
From where did you get that number?
Belboz says approximately the same:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post1249292
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post1226510
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...l=1#post214280
but the number is slightly different (4000, 4050, 4124) in each post and I don't know from where s/he got those numbers. I also have a doc stored on my computer where Belboz states 3999 or 4095, so I don't really know what to believe.
What happens if you have more than the "allowed" terrain brushes?
I had ~4700 terrain brushes and never noticed any side-effects (I hadn't yet added any room brushes, on the other hand).
Zontik is correct. I've never personally made a mission with that many brushes, so I don't know the exact limit, but I know it's roughly 7000. But that brush limit includes all brushes, not just terrain brushes. Objects count too.
And again, yes, you can keep going past the limit, you just can't portalise any more. I have no idea how far beyond the limit you can go.
Yesyes, but where does the number 4000 come from?
Last edited by qolelis; 20th May 2010 at 17:27. Reason: hmmm...
I have read in the forum, the number of missions that are scrapped for exceeding the limit. In some instances once the limit was exceeded, it was impossible to retract them. I believe the number 4000, is from trial and error. When portalization, optimization, Compute Pathfinding become impossible. Some have split their missions, others had to scrap them all together.
Looking at some of the OM's, 4,000 terrain brushes is max. Mission7. is a good example. I had to think about the difficulty I might have in editing a new story in it. It had already over 999 Room Brushes, and trying to add more terrain to it, I found it would no longer Compute Path find.
I ended up eliminating the Sewers, and many brushes that were not really needed.
After learning that, I always started saving my .gam, with .mis in a separate dated folder. Near the completion of Wicked Webs We Weave, I was able to reduce the nuimber of Room brushes, and objects, by thinning through out the whole map.
1.4000 Terrain
2.2400 objects
3. 999 Room brushes
7,399 Sub Total Other adjustments and limits not mentioned. Obj_Max can sometimes be increased.
Last edited by darthsLair; 20th May 2010 at 18:07.
I don't think 4000 comes into it anywhere.
Don't forget one very narrow limit:
The number of ambient sounds you can place is limited to 254 (I've hit this limit recently with Trail Of Blood 2 and it sucks...)
Delete the ambient sounds of the torches that won't affect the game play (like very high torches that the player won't hear anyway).
So, it would be more of a practical limit than a technical one - that makes sense.
I'm here to say that i've never heard of a terrain brush limit, and have never had any issues with one. Cell limit, yes. Object limit, yes. General Brush limit, yes. Lights limit, yes. Pathing limit, yes. Not terrain limit.
Unfortunately you can stand very close to each of them
I have to remove all sounds and go through the mission again and rework the sound. The problem is that the mission consists only of forests and swamps so there have to be a lot of different sounds (and one river running through the entire level, to 50% through caves, it has a lenght of ~900DU).
I'm trying to get around this problem using the auxiliary schemas...
Thank you, that's one less thing to worry about.
Currently I have 3957 terrain brushes and am running out of things to rebuild so the next thing is either replacing rail posts + rails with objects or moving on to the next phase (I can always return to those rail posts later).
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