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Thread: General Fan Mission Review And Discussion Megathread

  1. #651
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    I don't what what else it copies because I don't have photoshop

    If you post the tutorial I can translate it for PSP.

  2. #652
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Here's a funny question: What happens when all FMs are reviewed? If you had started this insane amount of reviewing about a year or two back...

    Anyhow, thanks in advance, you help me choose which FM to play.

    Currently I'm slowly (and i mean, slowly, cause i don't have much playtime lately) playing through Mysterious Invitation V2. I gotta say, that's a nice and big mission with an interesting story. I imagine it drawing a line almost parallel to The Sword. I like it's use of advanced textures and the marble floors so far have thankfully proven pretty harmless to me.

    Does spending many hours a day on this forum or the circle (novels, stories...), which is much more than on Thief, make me have no life at all?

  3. #653
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Does spending many hours a day on this forum or the circle (novels, stories...), which is much more than on Thief, make me have no life at all?
    OF COURSE NOT!

    *answers this because he does almost the same*

  4. #654
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    Here's a funny question: What happens when all FMs are reviewed? If you had started this insane amount of reviewing about a year or two back...

    Anyhow, thanks in advance, you help me choose which FM to play.
    Then I'd just review the new ones that were released I suppose or start on a different Thief game There are still a ton of missions to go so I don't think I'll run out any time soon.

  5. #655
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    When you have reviewed all missions, you can choose which page of the thread you want to see: 1, 2, 3....or 568.

  6. #656
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Or they can just look at the first post and click on what mission they want to see or what they want to discuss.

    I figure I'll shift my focus from reviewing missions to just coming up with ideas to discuss about them at that point.

  7. #657
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Oh i dunno, on my count you + few "guests" (other reviewers) have reviewed 121 FMs. That's more than 10% already.

  8. #658
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Bad Intentions By Mirko
    Released: 2008

    What is the story?: Lord Jonstone moved into this town a few months ago. He hasn't got the biggest mansion, but he owns quite a lot of valuable things. His most precious treasure is a gem ring which he's always keeping safe in his rooms. Lord Jonstone has got many connections and influences, so he'd better not even think that I'm going to steal the ring. I'll have to make sure that nobody sees me.

    How does it play?: Not so well, I'm sorry to say. First and foremost we've got the dreaded (for me) forced ghosting objective - but instead of just making it one person you need to avoid or one group of people, you can't be seen by anyone in this mission. The author notes in the objective that "we've been playing 10 years of thief so it shouldn't be a problem". Well, for casual gamers like myself - it is a problem. In fact, it is a fun vacuum that makes the mission a chore for me to complete.

    The easiest thing to do here would be to have the ghosting objective on higher skill levels and instead use a no-kill or even a no-ko objective on the easy level. That would have given every play style the chance to have a good time - but for me this mission was just not any fun.

    The patrol routes were erratic (I don't know if this was done intentionally or just odd AI behavior) but more than once I had a guard suddenly double back his patrol route and get closer and closer to where I was - eventually discovering me (though I was completely covered in shadow.. which there is little of in most places in this mission) almost by magic. I also discovered that putting out a torch in the next room would somehow alert some of the guards or house staff and BOOM - objective failed.

    In one case on a higher level of the estate a woman stopped in the middle of a hallway - and unfortunately it was completely lit, patrolled by a guard and the only way in and out of the area. I ended up trapped, stuck and without the ability to create shadow. How is a player supposed to get around that?

    Without the ghosting objective that left you hung up if the AI patrol routes break the mission would be a great bit of classic thief fun. I just wish I could have enjoyed it.

    How does it look?: The mission looks good for the most part, lots of classic thief touches and atmosphere. The layout of the estate is simple for the most part, and it seems like everything was kept pretty basic.

    How does it sound?: I noticed a scripted conversation or two which are always welcome, and I didn't notice any spots without sound or the wrong sounds. Well done overall.

    So what is the verdict?:
    With the forced ghosting playstyle and many frustrating design choices, this mission just was not for me. If you enjoy a good challenge and ghosting, by all means give it a shot - but I'll have to give it a pass.

    Check this one out if you enjoy: Ghosting, challenging gameplay, quirky AI.

    Screens: (Didn't come out to well, but I think everything about this mission worked against me)


    This guard has to stand in one spot and turn every so often - poor guy must have the worst job on the staff.



    Here Garrett warns about the tile floor - perhaps if he chose a difference choice of footwear he could sneak right by!



    No time to eat - nab the candlestick and vamoose!



    This guy here... holy smokes. Don't even get me started on his inane patrol route. Try hiding int he doorway (the only bit of shadow near you) - I dare you. Watch him find you.



    Comfy and cozy.



    So here is the rub - this woman sometimes stops randomly here in this hallway - and there is a guard patroling that will come around the corner in front of her shortly. You have to get by her unnoticed but you cant put out a torch. Yeah - not for me.



    I dont even know.

  9. #659
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    The Affairs Of Wizards By Nameless Voice
    Released: 2008

    What is the story?: I was approached by a man named Havelock, who claimed to represent an eccentric "key collector", who wishes to remain anonymous. Apparently, this unknown noble prides himself in his collection of rare and unusual keys, and there are three in particular that he wishes to add to his collection. I'm generally wary of taking jobs where I don't know the employer or the fence, but the mysterious buyer managed to gain my attention with a generous up-front payment if I accepted. I didn't really have much choice; the rent is due, and I haven't had many opportunities lately. I need the money.

    How does it play?: For a contest mission given only two months - this mission is shockingly well done. Nameless Voice always excels at special effects and bending dromed to do things it was not intended to do - and this mission is no exception. From collapsing ruins to teleportation down to the less noticeable things such as a mage re-lighting torches that you put out with his magic.. there are a ton of impressive things on display in this one.

    You begin in a mansion like setting (which is always welcome to me) and after an interesting development in the rather strong plot you end up traveling to a few different locations - very inventive use of the contest parameters and it really added an epic and varied feeling to the mission. The architecture of all of the areas you visit leads to some fun gameplay aspects and overall everything is very well built. Such a high level of polish can only help the gameplay and it definitely delivers here. This mission is another example of a mission that is great on its own merit but I feel would have been even bigger and better if it was expanded on with larger areas and more to do - the excellent story could have easily lent itself to becoming a fully fleshed out multi-mission campaign. Very well done!

    How does it look?: From the high quality textures and architecture to the special effects and different locations you'll visit - everything looks fantastic. Nameless Voice builds beautiful missions, and this one has all the polish and quality that you'd expect. Definitely easy on the eyes.

    How does it sound?: From the splash of water in one location to the crackling of fire in another, everything sounds great. The voice acting for the mages in this mission was really well done and particularly stood out.

    So what is the verdict?: Another favorite of mine from the contest, I highly recommend you give this one a shot.

    Check this one out if you enjoy:
    Mages, Human enemies, interesting stories, mansion missions, adventure missions.

    A side note - upon reading the readable that came with this mission I noticed this comment from the author:

    Finally, this mission was *very* rushed, so the quality of some things is far below that of others. Plot, readables, architecture, voice acting... all could have done with more work.
    That really is a shame, though the mission still turned out excellent. This is a shining example of why sometimes a contest can be a bad thing.

    Screens:


    Inside the estate.



    Enjoying someone else's book by an open fire.



    What have we here??



    Great little details were scattered here and there like a book hanging over the edge of a desk.



    Things just got a little more interesting!



    Yo ho ho, a pirates life for me.



    So many mages - so little gas arrows.



    I thought it felt warmer in here.

  10. #660
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    I thought at this point I'd take a bit of a break for discussion so that I can prepare the next mission for Thief TIS.

    If you notice during my review of Bad Intentions I noted that because of my playstyle not having a difficulty where ghosting is not forced makes a mission a real chore for me personally - I was wondering how others felt about this as well. I know some folks really enjoy the thrill and challenge of a perfectly ghosted mission - and I like that the playstyle is available, just not the only style allowed.

    So what say you? Does your playstyle allow for forced ghosting? Would you rather it only be an option for missions on higher difficulty? Do you not care either way?

    I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject!

  11. #661
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    I actually liked the mission and i like ghosting as well and it was fairly easy in this mission. That wonderful background music boosted the atmosphere nicely and it happened to be one of the most atmospheric TAC missions for me.

    Dunno what upsets you so badly about ghosting, but i have no problems accepting that.

  12. #662
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    I actually liked the mission and i like ghosting as well and it was fairly easy in this mission. That wonderful background music boosted the atmosphere nicely and it happened to be one of the most atmospheric TAC missions for me.

    Dunno what upsets you so badly about ghosting, but i have no problems accepting that.
    It doesn't upset me - it just isn't my preferred play style.. Which is why I wanted to talk about it to get opinions that were different than mine

    The the same vein some folks would rather play strictly ghost or strictly ironman - I play strictly blackjacking for the most part and would rather ghosting objectives be left to higher difficulties.

  13. #663
    jtr7
    Guest
    I never noticed SneakyJack being upset about ghosting, and certainly not "so badly".

    Since it would be unreasonable to expect one reviewer to review the game with coverage of multiple playstyles, I think it would be interesting to hear from those other Masters of their preferred styles for these missions, once in awhile, if not more regularly.

  14. #664
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    I only like ghosting if:
    1. you have to ghost just in a part of the game, not the whole level. (Like The Mirror)
    2. you have a mission that is easy to ghost (Like T2x: the Redistribution Game)

    Otherwise, I prefer or an optional ghosting objective or just on higher difficulties.

    In other words, some ghosting can be fun in a while, but I don't want to be pushed too much to do it.

  15. #665
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7 View Post
    Since it would be unreasonable to expect one reviewer to review the game with coverage of multiple playstyles, I think it would be interesting to hear from those other Masters of their preferred styles for these missions, once in awhile, if not more regularly.
    Absolutely. If someone disagrees with a review of mine or disagrees with a statement I make I would very much enjoy reading a re-review of a mission by someone else from a different playstyle perspective. I say this with all sincerity. It made my day when Intruder reviewed a series of missions recently - I'm usually the one reading my own writing as I'm typing it and its instantly old to me.. I like to read reviews too so please do so!

    It is great fun for me to read "how the other side lives" so to speak due to my ghosting skills being mediocre at best. Some of you that can perfect ghost complicated missions leave me in awe at your skills and patience, and I'd like to hear what you think about missions I've reviewed in the past.

    So in short - if you are a ghoster and would like to re-review any mission I've done that has clashed with my playstyle I would very much encourage and enjoy reading it!

    I only like ghosting if:
    1. you have to ghost just in a part of the game, not the whole level. (Like The Mirror)
    2. you have a mission that is easy to ghost (Like T2x: the Redistribution Game)

    Otherwise, I prefer or an optional ghosting objective or just on higher difficulties.

    In other words, some ghosting can be fun in a while, but I don't want to be pushed too much to do it.
    I'm with you my friend. Thats pretty much my exact view on it as well. I mentioned a few times in my T2X review that the ghosting parts were painless because of how they were handled for the most part, so it sounds like you and I share similar views on it. Thanks for contributing!

    Also: 25k views!

  16. #666
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7 View Post
    I never noticed SneakyJack being upset about ghosting, and certainly not "so badly".
    Then i am a bit too paranoid. My bad.

    Where do you see views on a thread & stuff?

  17. #667
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    Then i am a bit too paranoid. My bad.

    Where do you see views on a thread & stuff?
    On the main forum index.

    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=100

    Take this one for example. To the right of thread titles you can see replies and views. 25k is no big deal being that there are a ton of threads that are just mission hint threads that get over 30-50k over time, but I'm still happy about it.

  18. #668
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    I got a question: Can I find somewhere which contests there have been? I only know the Komag contests and I wondered if there were more...

  19. #669
    jtr7
    Guest
    Kamyk's stickied thread has the section for you:
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106781
    Last edited by jtr7; 10th Apr 2009 at 19:16. Reason: "a" silly typo

  20. #670
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7 View Post
    Kamyk's stickied thread has a the section for you:
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106781
    Thank you, I needed something like that myself for future reviews!

  21. #671
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Thank you, jtr7. That are a lot of contests...
    Last edited by PotatoGuy; 11th Apr 2009 at 06:32.

  22. #672
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I have to ask: when you talk about the voice acting for the mages being really well done, I assume you're talking about the Thief Gold mages - always one of my favourite of the Looking Glass voice sets - and not my voice acting, which I had thought was a bit muffled and hard to understand?

    And on your point about rushed missions - I don't think that mission would ever have existed if it wasn't built in a short time for a contest deadline.
    I mainly put in the "very rushed" disclaimer because I didn't have much time to test it before release, though it turned out mostly all right in the end.

    Admittedly, I had originally planned to build another area, a crypt full of undead, but I ran out of time and wasn't sure what I would have put in there anyway. Without a time limit, I might well have continued down that line of adding more and more areas and never have finished the thing!

    What I always loved about the contest missions was that they are short missions and the authors are usually more willing to experiment with them.


    As for the ghosting issue: I often ghost missions, but for some reason I also found the ghosting in Bad Intentions to be extremely unpleasant and tedious. I think it was because there weren't enough places to hide and you had to constantly wait for the right time to move in very long patrols through narrow and well-lit corridors.

    Personally, I think that forced ghosting should only be applied if it is relatively easy to ghost the mission, or the ghosting is limited to a small plot-critical section - otherwise it should be an optional objective.
    Oh, and it also bugs me when the ghosting objective doesn't warn you when it's been failed, but just quietly gets crossed off (and potentially fails the mission if it's non-optional). If you're going to add a ghosting objective, please put in a little "Ghosting failed!" warning. (I even wrote a script to allow authors to easily build such a setup...)
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 10th Apr 2009 at 21:47.

  23. #673
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quick question about the master index of missions in the first post of this thread - wouldn't it make more sense to list missions alphabetically rather than by the "last updated" date? If someone is searching for a mission, they're going to be looking for the specific name of an FM, not a date. As this thread grows over time, it's going to be more difficult to locate a specific mission.

    If someone just wants to catch up on the thread, they can just jump in and find the spot where they last read manually, and read one from there. Just doesn't seem to make much sense to list missions by their review date.

  24. #674
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Alphabetical will probably work better in the long run so I'm sure when I get some time and the list gets a bit larger I'll re-work the index.

    @ Nameless Voice: I thought the voicework for the main mage in your mission (which I assume was your voicework you mentioned? The readable from the mission downloaded from the keep didnt talk about voice actors, I looked) was rather good. It was clear to me and sounded well done - maybe you are being too hard on yourself?

    Also, if the other four mages used voices from Thief Gold that explains why I had never heard them - I never finished my playthrough of gold since discovering Thief 2 shortly after beginning Gold. At any rate, I really enjoyed the voices in your mission.
    Last edited by SneakyJack; 11th Apr 2009 at 02:32.

  25. #675
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Personally, I think that forced ghosting should only be applied if it is relatively easy to ghost the mission, or the ghosting is limited to a small plot-critical section - otherwise it should be an optional objective.
    This. Although in some missions I ghost just for fun. Depends on the mission - puzzle heavy missions I usually get handy with the blackjack, because it makes it easier to think about the puzzles, and maybe experiment with a possible solution even if it's on the other side of the map. But for simpler, traditional Thief gameplay missions, I'll generally find them too easy if I don't ghost, because by now I know all the AI exploits etc.

    Also, Brethren: what's wrong with Ctrl+F?

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