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Thread: The petition for Thief 1&2 source publication

  1. #551
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian The Dog View Post
    EA most definitely hasn't forgotten about SS2 - Bioshock is its spiritual successor, and it's the most requested game on Good Old Games with >13000 requests.
    No problem. Will you try to ask EA about the SS2 source code? You see, I've tried but I've failed. Maybe you'll be more lucky.

  2. #552
    If they are even considering releasing it then I'd expect them to hold it back for a while as part of the marketing drive for Thief 4. That's also probably the best time for us to reapply pressure. They'll have the attention of the gaming press.

    I'm not above guerrilla tactics if it comes down to it.

  3. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroseTroll View Post
    Just think about it: who wants a problem? If that former LGS employee will release the source anonymously, sooner or later Eidos' lawers will recognize him and sue against him. Morethen, Eidos can state something like this: "Everyone, who is using the unofficially released source, will be sued." How about this?

    maybe in their dreams...

  4. #554
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: UK
    Well, they'd definitely know who leaked the code as the person went to their line manager and reported that they'd found the code, so (a) they'd get fired, and (b) they'd get taken to court and made to pay a fine, just like people who leak movies online.

    Even if Eidos are unlikely to actually do this, they would know who leaked it and would YOU take that kind of risk with your job? Much as I like Thief, I wouldn't get fired for it.

    MoroseTroll - EA & Eidos are extremely unlikely to take any notice of me. Which is fine, I'm just a paying customer and a Thief fan, not like supreme overlord of the universe or something

  5. #555
    well yeah,it is definitely too late for that guy to leak the code-now that eidos knows he was the one who had it,they would devour him alive..

    ok,now we need a friendly taffer who lives nearby,and is in for some special loot

  6. #556
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    ...nope...we wait....and wait....and wait...and wait.

  7. #557
    well,waiting and being patient is pretty much everything I excel at (my job requires it),so,bring it on.

  8. #558
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: ...retired.
    Quote Originally Posted by lost_soul View Post
    Well I don't know about anybody else, but I sure would be a lot more likely to buy Thief 4 if the sources to T1 and T2 are released.
    Maybe EM has something along those lines in mind.... Releasing the code with T4? It'd be a great bonus on the disc(s) when T4 is released -- and an extra selling point for the Thief community. Plus, doing so would be a way of "handing over" their intellectual property while still getting "paid" for it, thus satisfying the lawyers.

  9. #559
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Queue View Post
    Maybe EM has something along those lines in mind.... Releasing the code with T4? It'd be a great bonus on the disc(s) when T4 is released -- and an extra selling point for the Thief community. Plus, doing so would be a way of "handing over" their intellectual property while still getting "paid" for it, thus satisfying the lawyers.
    Yes, on a positive note, perhaps that's what they're thinking. Even better, would be if they released it this Christmas.

  10. #560
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    Neb: So, are you suggesting us to wait for another two-three years?

    Brian The Dog: I do like to play Thief 1&2&3 and System Shock 2. Do you? If yes, so why do you think that you are less important for Eidos and EA as a T1&T2&T3 and SS2 player (and buyer) then me? What's wrong just to ask EA: "What's about the SS2 source?"

    New Horizon: ... and this song will never end .

    Queue: Eidos to release the T1&T2 source along with Thief 4? Maybe. But when? In 2012? Or even in 2013? IMHO, it would be too late. Russians say: "A spoon is only good at dinner" (i.e. every thing has its own time). The time of T1&T2 and SS2 is running out, IMHO.
    Last edited by MoroseTroll; 12th Oct 2010 at 10:37.

  11. #561
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    It's time we put the flame torch to their keep...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdEQkRq_xrw

  12. #562
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroseTroll View Post
    Brian The Dog: I do like to play Thief 1&2&3 and System Shock 2. Do you? If yes, so why do you think that you are less important for Eidos and EA as a T1&T2&T3 and SS2 player (and buyer) then me? What's wrong just to ask EA: "What's about the SS2 source?"
    Both EA and Irrational have been asked about the source code in the past....guess what they said? Yup, they didn't know where it was and presumed it lost. lol

  13. #563
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: ...retired.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroseTroll View Post
    Queue: Eidos to release the T1&T2 source along with Thief 4? Maybe. But when? In 2012? Or even in 2013? IMHO, it would be too late. Russians say: "A spoon is only good at dinner" (i.e. every thing has its own time). The time of T1&T2 and SS2 is running out, IMHO.
    I agree. But there's always the corporate view of: "What's in it for me?" So I can see them sitting on the code (HOLY HELL, SOMEONE ACTUALLY FOUND IT!!!) until T4 comes out and packaging it with that to help bolster sales as an added incentive.

    That is, if they ever release it at all.

    (P.S. In America, the saying is, "Shit or get off the pot.")

  14. #564
    Yes, I will always love and play Thief 1, but...

    One thing the higher-ups should realize is that they have some competition now. Many people are mapping for TDM these days, and Thief 1/2 can only be pushed so far without the source code. If they did release the code, it would give the T1/2 editing community a major boost in flexibility and capabilities. It is always good to keep interest in your products alive as long as possible... especially if you have a running series of games. It isn't as though any company would *pay* for the Dark Engine these days, what with all of the free and much more powerful engines already around.

    So, do what Id Software does. Release the code and keep the fans of your products happy. I doubt the DooM community would be as alive as it is without the source code.

    Say what you want about Thief 4, but I'm glad it isn't using the Unreal Engine. At least there is a ghost of a chance that they could one day release the source to that as well. Also, I shouldn't have to worry about falling through the ground, like I did in DS, or DXIW.

  15. #565
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: ...retired.
    Yeah, but sometimes you just can't get any sort of reasoning through to these types of people. It'd be like telling the banks to just lower everyone's interest-rate to avert the oncoming housing-crisis and quell the potential economic collapse. Well why on earth would they do that when they can just foreclose and re-sell the house, right? It makes sense on paper--regardless of whether it's the right or logical thing to do.

  16. #566
    Also, consider that if the sources were released in 2004, there may have never been a TDM to speak of. I'm betting that the TDM manpower would have been focused on updating the original Thief games with new models and textures, as has been done countless times for other games. End result? Thief gets updated (for free) by the community, but the original creators still have control over the project and profit from it. There would still be no other game that replicates Thief's gameplay, complete with a mission editor.

  17. #567
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    Location: underground cavern
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    You didn't read my previous post, did you. No, that's not an example...the fate of the source code is being deliberated on, the last I heard, by the Eidos legal department. We must simply wait.

    Surely you picked up at what Morose Troll had been hinting at, didn't you?

    I'm tired of waiting.
    Yeh, sorry. I had just lost track of this thread, is all.

    So, you've been in contact with this anonymous former LGS member? Am I getting that clear? This topic is just so riddled with legal arguments that no one seems to be making the current matter clear.

    I apologize for being the late-bloomer of this topic, it's just that I'm really busy these days, and it aggravates me to try and read through this thread quickly.

    Lost_soul - Wow, did they really decide not to use Unreal? This is a happy day for gamers. The unreal engine is not a universally friendly engine, these days. Bioshock can't run for crap on my more than capable system.

  18. #568
    Last I heard, they were using a Tomb Raider engine.

  19. #569
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    Yeh, sorry. I had just lost track of this thread, is all.

    So, you've been in contact with this anonymous former LGS member? Am I getting that clear?
    lol No. I said a "Community member" had been in contact with a former LGS member, not me. If it had been me, I would have just said so.

    As I said, a community member tracked down a former LGS dev who happened to have the source. This was relayed to Rene. Rene handed it to Eidos. Rene's replacement said they're still looking into the legal ramifications. That's all we know.

  20. #570
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    Both EA and Irrational have been asked about the source code in the past....guess what they said? Yup, they didn't know where it was and presumed it lost. lol
    EA is a very big corporation, so I'm not wondering that it doesn't know where is the SS2 source code. I think we need to contact some EA's higher-ups (jtr7 knows whom exactly).

    Quote Originally Posted by Queue View Post
    (P.S. In America, the saying is, "Shit or get off the pot.")


    lost_soul: A ghost chance? Maybe. But I don't know what's worse: UE3-based Thief 4 with or even without UE3-editor (in this worst case we can adapt the UDK-version of the editor), or CDE-based Thief 4 without editor at all (but with a ghost chance to see the source... after 10 years)...
    Last edited by MoroseTroll; 13th Oct 2010 at 02:11.

  21. #571

    paranoia is a drug

    I guess the other side of the coin is the possibility that they don't want to create a competitor "within" thief-brand so to speak. And EA -> *if* they have anything to say, why would they allow any engine source to escape from their clutches, is there any history of them doing so and allowing any engine go open source?


    If Eidos releases sources after "legal problems" have been settled there is this not so remote possibility of vast enhancement of the original engine, fixing bugs and whatnot. Dark Engine could be crossplatform, state of the art fps/rpg platform, I have no doubt there is skill and will in those who are interested. -> what use there is for ThiefIV de crossplatformis which, most likely, tries once again to please and be friends with everyone, yet pleases no one. And as plus, it is likely there won't be any sources or editor for this engine anyhow. Why not make false promises and pr-bullshit, this source bs bait goes nicely with the rest of the garbage.


    And why, oh, why this *mystery* developer didn't just slip the sources somewhere instead of giving it to corporate goons who have chronic lawyeritis, how hard can it be? He/She/UFO could have just posted it on some boards as something they found on LGS bankrupcy stuff which, AFAIK was divided between who knows whom. How far fetched it is to think anybody would be any wiser? Oh, wait a moment - it is only ethical and above all legally correct to give it to those who don't give a shit and/or want to keep it to themselves. It's not like some company has a battalion of snoopy doopy the doggies who can and will find someone from teh internets, or maybe there is some sort of digital fingerprint on the sources; yeah and physicist continue to laugh while they piss in their pants. IMHO, it is already painfully clear there is something rotten in all this as it is, my paranoid mind tells me this ;-) - Just my 0,02€uro

  22. #572
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by 2Dark View Post
    And why, oh, why this *mystery* developer didn't just slip the sources somewhere instead of giving it to corporate goons who have chronic lawyeritis, how hard can it be? He/She/UFO could have just posted it on some boards as something they found on LGS bankrupcy stuff which, AFAIK was divided between who knows whom. How far fetched it is to think anybody would be any wiser? Oh, wait a moment - it is only ethical and above all legally correct to give it to those who don't give a shit and/or want to keep it to themselves. It's not like some company has a battalion of snoopy doopy the doggies who can and will find someone from teh internets, or maybe there is some sort of digital fingerprint on the sources; yeah and physicist continue to laugh while they piss in their pants. IMHO, it is already painfully clear there is something rotten in all this as it is, my paranoid mind tells me this ;-) - Just my 0,02€uro
    Why do people keep on coming back and asking for the source to be released illegally? I haven't asked but I'm betting the majority of the community doesn't want to get involved with even speculative legal issues. Eidos would find out quick, after all look at the length of this thread, there would be a shitstorm if/when we get our hands on the code. I'm guessing the he/she/UFO doesn't care / didn't expect / doesn't need to participate in the rabid interest surrounding the source code, which is why they chose to bring the source code to Eidos, the owners, and not us.

    Here's what would happen if the leaked source code hit TTLG. TPTB would kill every thread linking to it. Eidos at most might send out DMCA notices to sites with the source (more accurately to the hosting service), but not using source code illegally is more of a matter of principle than just practicality anyway. If Eidos does a legit release of the source code under an open source license, then there will be no issues and people will start getting to work on bringing OPDE to 100% and other cool stuff.

    For those saying too little too late... if you're still playing Thief 1+2 after 10 years, there is no such thing as late.

  23. #573
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by jaxa View Post
    Why do people keep on coming back and asking for the source to be released illegally?
    As much as the darker part of me would have loved for it to have been leaked, just for the relief of finally getting it out there, it would likely be an empty victory.

    It is better for all parties involved for the code to be released legally, if it's ever released at all.

  24. #574
    How about blaming the entertainment industry for making "exclusivity" last longer than any human lifetime? Companies get to control the product virtually forever, yet they don't even have to provide patches to fix bugs six years down the line. They can choose never to release the source, thus denying society the ability to fix the bugs... and I quote

    "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

    What a complete joke.

    Have a look at this graph... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...right_term.svg

    Credit: Wikipedia
    Last edited by lost_soul; 13th Oct 2010 at 13:13.

  25. #575
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Quote Originally Posted by lost_soul View Post
    They can choose never to release the source
    Yes - but that's nothing to do with copyright law.

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