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Thread: The petition for Thief 1&2 source publication

  1. #576
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    ... and that is why they should be required to publish source along with the product. As it is now, they can get all of the benefits without ever giving anything back to the public, preventing us from ever building upon/enhancing the game in any major way. It boils down to this:

    I purchased the games... all three of them. I never downloaded them or anything like that. I kept up my side of the "contract". We've waited over ten years for the code to be released. If they cannot do something as trivial as this, then I will just completely shift over to TDM, whose source is already available... and avoid buying anything from Eidos in the future.

    and yes, copyright was supposed to serve as a contract between artists and the public. We (the public) are supposed to eventually get full access to the work. Now since some rich goons purchased the law, I will be dead long before this can occur.
    Last edited by lost_soul; 13th Oct 2010 at 15:41.

  2. #577
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    I'm not sure what "contract" you think you've entered into. I have also bought the games but didn't expect that I would be gifted with the source code. Copyright is about restricting distribution of a product - not being entitled to the original material (source code in this case) that was used to create the product. It's great when companies share the source code and I'd love it to happen in this case - I just don't think it's an automatic right.

  3. #578
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2009
    I propose a boycott of all EDIOS software from now on until the sources are released. They're clearly antagonistic towards us and have no moral right to deny whats rightfully ours.

  4. #579
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Well I bet that petition would have some more weight if it said "I won't be buying Thief 4 unless the Thief 1/2 source code is released to the public."

  5. #580
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: still retired.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. hermit View Post
    I propose a boycott of all EDIOS software from now on until the sources are released. They're clearly antagonistic towards us and have no moral right to deny whats rightfully ours.
    No its not.

    And silly statements like this give the higher-ups in a corporation no reason to pay any attention to, or give any credence toward, the cause.

  6. #581
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Queue View Post
    No its not.

    And silly statements like this give the higher-ups in a corporation no reason to pay any attention to, or give any credence toward, the cause.
    Like they were going to anyway... and of course the codes rightfully belong to the public, us.

  7. #582
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Because there is a diligent fanbase of the original Thief, of which you may or may not be a part of, the code hath been restored from its place in obscurity. Of course the company is aware of the code the fanbase and all of these things, and of course the company will give it to said fanbase. The question is when?

  8. #583
    NewDark 64³ Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    Hate to be optimistic too early, but I think they will ultimately decide to release the code. However, acting like it rightfully belongs to us is pretty strange imo.

  9. #584
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorak View Post
    Hate to be optimistic too early, but I think they will ultimately decide to release the code. However, acting like it rightfully belongs to us is pretty strange imo.
    Depends on where you stand morally on copyright. It's hard to justify keeping it secret after 12 years, and it's hard to justify keeping it secret from a person that bought the game regardless. So it's not strange at all. And by 'us' I mean the public.

  10. #585
    NewDark 64³ Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    Initially, they likely kept the source code private because they intended to produce more games with it (Thief 2 Gold), and then it just fell between the cracks afterwards when the company was sold and died etc. Probably, they didn't care at all what happened to the source code -- it wasn't anything malicious or secret. The fact that they said they would look for it while doing nothing seems proof of that.

    Doesn't really matter where I morally stand on copyright, it doesn't change anything. What you're saying is that everyone who buys a can of Coke is entitled to the secret recipe just because they purchase the product and enjoy it.

  11. #586
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Location: hehe lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    hath
    what

  12. #587
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorak View Post

    Doesn't really matter where I morally stand on copyright, it doesn't change anything. What you're saying is that everyone who buys a can of Coke is entitled to the secret recipe just because they purchase the product and enjoy it.
    Thats exactly what I'm saying, I want to know what I'm drinking. Especially coke, who knows what crazy chemicals they put in there.

  13. #588
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    ^ and many people feel the same way about software. With things like this and this happening, they're not so crazy after all.

  14. #589
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. hermit View Post
    Thats exactly what I'm saying, I want to know what I'm drinking.
    They do list the major ingredients on each can of coke. I agree that "natural flavours" could be expanded upon - but the chemicals likely to cause health problems are listed.

    You're not just asking for that though, you're asking for the full recipe so you could produce cola yourself.

  15. #590
    NewDark 64³ Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    Quote Originally Posted by lost_soul View Post
    ^ and many people feel the same way about software. With things like this and this happening, they're not so crazy after all.
    Don't you think the bigger issue is that people still support these companies after these scams are revealed -- all we give is just a collective shrug. Too many people allow themselves to be crapped on all their lives, and then they wonder why they smell like shit. You know, if people banded together, never buying another Sony product and eventually forcing Sony to go bankrupt, it's pretty obvious nothing like that would happen again.

    Business is business, it only wants to make money and has no interest in anything else. If we give up our rights and our accountability to these businesses, then whatever happens is our fault and not theirs.

    rant over

  16. #591
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    He couldn't produce Cola himself... at least not in any way that would threaten the parent company. If the parent company releases the recipe, they can do so with strings attached (e.g. GPL) to prevent their recipe from being used against them. More over, most people don't have a factory to produce/pack/ship the drink.

    The same applies to the game. If the source code is released under GPL, someone can't take it and close it up and/or use it against the original developers. There is little chance that the community would build a completely free game based on the original source code, although this does happen from time to time. see: FreeDoom, OpenArena, etc. Even if the community *did* build a new thief-like game with the dark engine, it isn't going to compete with sales of any current game from the developer. The mass market doesn't want Freedoom, they want the authentic Doom game, with all its great music and the like. The mass market wouldn't want a game called burgle either, even if it is based on the Thief engine. They want the authentic Thief that has been raved about by critics.

    The existence of TDM makes it even less likely that the community would build a free set of resources to use with the Dark Engine.

  17. #592
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: Germany
    Its funny how some people seem to think that we have a "right" for the code. When we bought the game we bought the right for a copy of the game, fair use included. But that's it.
    Imo it is good will when a company releases the sources of its games, but I do not think that they are obligated to do it.

    When you buy a car you have no right to the construction details.
    When you buy a DVD or see a movie you don't have the right to the raw material.
    When you buy a loaf of bread you don't have a right to see the whole recipe.

  18. #593
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: not anymore :(
    Can we stop the stupid discussion here?
    This thread is about Square Enix's resolution of their "legal issues" in order to release a source code which we're not entitled to but that would benefit everyone (binary engine upgrades for both Thief 2 and DromEd for us, publicity on sites like RPS for Square Enix).
    It's not about OSS and consumer entitlement (which is directly proportional to how important the problem is felt by the majority, i.e. not at all).

  19. #594
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I agree-arguing about stuff like who has the holy right for the source code is not a smart thing to do,and is certainly not going to help anybody.

    now let's try to do something smart: I consider this (source code found,eidos thinking hard what to do with it) as quite interesting news,and anybody who is into pc gaming for the last 10 years will probably think the same.we need to get this out,we need to make it into big news,hey gaming world,the sources for 3 legendary games have been found,and anyone who even remotely considers himself a gamer should do his part and sign the petition.

    I did this a couple of hours ago,and 40 new signatures have been added already.good start,I say.


    now,everybody,get to work and spread the glory!

  20. #595
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: not anymore :(
    By the way, I'm thinking that a possible explanation for the legal delay might be due to EA trying to pressure Square Enix into giving them exclusive rights to the SS2-specific source code, so that they can do a closed GOG build.

  21. #596
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    btw,do we have any facebook crazies here? flooding fb with this might help too.

  22. #597
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Prague
    Apparently this Czech technology news site noticed this thread exists

  23. #598
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Briareos H View Post
    By the way, I'm thinking that a possible explanation for the legal delay might be due to EA trying to pressure Square Enix into giving them exclusive rights to the SS2-specific source code, so that they can do a closed GOG build.
    Selling on GOG has nothing to do with releasing the source code. The code for Duke Nukem was released forever ago, yet it has been one of GOG's best selling games. There is no good reason not to release the code. It will make the community happy, generate good publicity and the games will get updated/modernized for free.

    Even if the code is released, you still need a copy of the original game. My copy of SS2 costed $40 used.

  24. #599
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Your copy costed you?!

  25. #600
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004



    btw,the petition is at 1234 signatures,that means 10% growth within the last 12 hours.
    Last edited by voodoo47; 15th Oct 2010 at 18:51.

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