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Reply With QuoteWait, you need to be logged into GfWL to SAVE THE GAME?
The hell? I have no problem with online activations (and I <3 my steam), but that's just getting a tad bit ridiculous...
Thought this was relevant.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010...ioshock-2-drm/Online verification via SecuRom, with an install limit (15 machines, admittedly). To save the game or play online, you need to be logged into Games for Window Live. This still applies on Steam
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/52...ments-Revealed
Wait, you need to be logged into GfWL to SAVE THE GAME?
The hell? I have no problem with online activations (and I <3 my steam), but that's just getting a tad bit ridiculous...
The big problem I see is something that Red Faction Guerrilla experienced, which in all probability will be replicated in Bioshock 2. Because, you know, they can't be expected to learn from their mistakes. Games for Windows Live didn't want to play ball with Steam over the patch for Red Faction.
The patch was only available through GWL rather than being a steam auto-update, and if you had a Steam copy of the game, the patch installer would crash every time. If you did not install the patch, it would not let you log in to GWL, which meant that you were playing an illegal copy of the game and couldn't save or use multiplayer. For some unGodly reason it took them months to correct this problem.
There was a workaround, which involved letting the patch download and then killing the installer before it launched, fishing the patch files out of your temp folder, and running them with a command line parameter specifying the location of the game's install path within Steam. Easy enough for a System Shock fan maybe, but probably a bit tricky for everyone else.
One solution? Just don't buy it on Steam.
I don't have a problem with reasonable install limits or one-time online activation, and the version of SecuRom that BS1 installed on my PC didn't seem to have any negative consequences.
HOWEVER
Requiring GFWL for multiplayer sucks, meaning no independent dedicated servers. But the really bullshit part is requiring you to log onto GFWL every time you play the game, just so that you can save. The only possible benefit is that you might be able to play the same single player game from multiple machines without manually copying the save files. But personally, I want my save files on my own machine so I can manage them myself. And I don't want to have to log into GFWL every time I play for no particular reason. And at some point I may want to play on a laptop while traveling, when I don't have an internet connection.
Sorry, no thanks.
Steam, SecuRom, AND Games For Windows Live? Just to play a shovelware sequel? Wow... I guess someone figured the shitstorm over the first BioShock's DRM wasn't quite big enough.
Hello, bargain bin.
Ahhaahhaaa.
And every now and again they pull another one out of the bag.
Steam is only necessary for the Steam version. They make special mention of Steam in order to call attention to the fact that the Steam version will not be stripped of SecuROM.
And having SecuROM on top of GfWL is fucking retarded, and doesn't even make sense economically. 2K could have saved themselves the cost of an additional SecuROM license by using GfWL for validation, which doesn't to my knowledge cost anything extra on top of the regular GfWL license. (They could have saved themselves even more by just using Steamworks, but then they wouldn't get MS picking up a chunk of the marketing tab in exchange for them using LIVE).
The pirates will pirate it anyway.
Oh yay, GfWL. Expect any patches to be LONG delayed because they have to meet MS certification. Case in point, the recent Red Faction: Guerilla patch.
EDIT:
Seems the boxed retail release only uses SecuROM has a disc check, no online activation. Different story for the digital distribution copies though it seems, i.e. the Steam version has 5 limited activations.
(source)
2K Elizabeth had this to say:-
Hey guys,
As many of you are aware, yesterday Steam's pre-purchase program began and the specs for BioShock 2 were posted along with that announcement.
These specs were taken from the retail packaging of BioShock 2. And since bullet points on the back of the box don't always explain the full story, here is a little more detail about what that means.
BioShock 2 is using a standard Games for Windows Live activation system, much like other games you have played in the past. That doesn't mean you always have to be online to play or save the game -you can create an offline profile for the Single Player portion of the game (you just won't earn achievements and you can't play Multiplayer, of course.)
We are using SecuROM only as a disc check method for the retail copy of BioShock 2. That is it's only use.
I am now checking the final plans for BioShock 2's specifications for Steam - and I'll get you a more complete answer by the end of the week. I have also been compiling a feature that will help answer a host of questions about BioShock 2 on the PC, including a podcast and screenshots of the PC version, and that should be out within a few days as well.
I'm sorry for the confusion, and I hope to clear it up entirely for you soon.
-Elizabeth
Last edited by EvaUnit02; 21st Jan 2010 at 10:25.
1 sequel later and they still haven't learned anything. They still f*ck up their press releases and have to do damage control for days after which always reads: "I don't know why/how/when, I am the community manager but nobody tells me nothing, customers should just shut up please and buy the game, all the info you need for an informed buying decisions will be provided to you AFTER you bought the game or it has been out for a month.
Didn't the original BioShock have only 1 patch anyway? It's not like they have a good track record here...
Also: kiss all modding capabilities goodbye, even the tiny limited ones that we had in BioShock.
BioShock had mods??
Have a look at the Steam storefront page, the 5 limited activations seem to be gone, hurrah.
It may or not still have SecuROM though (likely unlimited activations), see the system requirements at the bottom of the page.
2K Elizabeth has said the following:-
That item on Steam is an error and will be corrected. It is not correct right now.
I'm going to try and get to as many questions as I can but there are quite a few posts so apologies if I miss something. Give me a day to work through this. Thanks guys.
Why all the fuss about the limited activations- either buy the retail version or get it download style from a vendor like Gamersgate who'll guarantee extra activations.
GfWL on the other hand? Burn it with fire, dissolve it with acid and fire it into the sun in a lead encased coffin. We were better off when MS was actively ignoring the PC instead of trying to saddle it with a badly conceived, badly coded and badly implemented money grubbing shiteware like GfWL.
Just one (that I'm aware of).Originally Posted by Jashin
There maybe no SecuROM activations but.... most GfWL CD keys have 15 limited activations (and are interchangeable between titles. Eg people have used DoW2 beta keys with FO3). After that you have phone MS and get a new one. Good luck with the last bit, TBH.
I want to clear this up: SecuROM for the retail version is ONLY a disc check, and there are NO limits for it. As for GFWL, there are 15 activations that can be reset if you reach the cap. There is no 5 activation limit anywhere with this game - in any version whatsoever.
sourceGames for Windows Live is the platform we are using for multiple reasons - and it works for us in many more ways than the activation limits. Those limits (sorry if I'm restating something you already read) are a standard for Microsoft and cannot be changed by us. The other option was to have an SSA-key, but we decided that this was the better choice for our gamers. There are several games out currently that use the same kind of system - Batman being the most recent in my memory (although Batman's SecuROM option is different from what we have.)
And again, I'm still following up on the Steam particulars for you guys - I just wanted to check in and let you know I'm still here, and up to date on what you've been writing.
source
complete disaster. again. bargain bin, here I come. And I have to replay DragonAge 3 times and ME2 as well. funny how they wanted to avoid the ModernWarfare2 release slots and now they are in the midst of so many "similar" prestigious releases and sequels. I doubt that there will be enough money left for all the games. Any predictions on the big looser ?
I predict Bs2, AC2 is a huge improvement, ME2 is a huge improvement but BS2 - in the mainstream press there was never any call for improvement of the first part, let alone a tacked on multiplayer.
Surely the poorly designed and rushed third act (after meeting Ryan) would've been criticised by some in the mainstream press? I vaguely recall there was criticism of the entirely arbitrary moral choice system and the different endings. (By mainstream I mean like IGN and Gamespot, not say a newspaper reviewer or an entertainment segment on a current affairs TV programme.)
I wouldn't be surprised if Metro 2033 tanked sales wise, TBH. That's out in March, along with a clusterfuck of big franchise sequels like Battlefield: Bad Company 2, God of War 3, Final Fantasy 13 and Just Cause 2.
Last edited by EvaUnit02; 22nd Jan 2010 at 13:04.
No one gives a fuck. BS2 will sell more copies over the 2 consoles than copies of the Bible this year.
I suppose I don't care that much about GFWL activation, because I'm mildly interested in the MP, but it's still an annoyance. At least I can still save my SP progress locally.
My main concern, as always, is the hubris of the companies/schemes that think they'll still be here 20 years from now. Will you still be running your activation servers and what-not? I doubt it. Maybe you just think I Won't Care by then...
...If you really believe that, then explain to me why I still play Super Mario World. :P
I doubt BS2 will reach sales numbers of the first; the novelty is gone, there was no cliffhangerending to the first and they are many strong franchise games coming out at the same time.
Well... to give BS2 credit (which it may not deserve), this time around the theme is "collectivist" and there's some Retro Multiplayer. I'm sure that was put in, in order to bump sales, but there it is... now you can waste other people, online, in Rapture.
I haven't given a fuck about online FPS since I retired from Quake 2 back in '99, but like I said... I have to confess at least a bit of intrigue. I could personally use a Frustration Outlet such as that right about now. If I get into BS2 MP, at least I'l be a Noob at the same time everyone else is.
I don't expect BS2 to blow my mind. I'm still buying it on release day/night, thanks to heaps of GCs bought for me over various holidays, but I'm just as Old and Cynical as anyone else here... if not moreso.
I expect nothing more from BS2 than some decently fun rompage, and maybe a good continuation of story.
I'm not that grim. Imo the team has the opportunity to improve EVERYTHING about the game and deliver a much better one than the first part ever was. I just think it won't be that commercially successful, no matter if better or worse than part1. Maybe I hope they fail completely so 2K let's their employees go and work on something better for another studio where they can do their own thing instead of nursing a stillborn child.
It's only a stillborn child insofar as TTLG's own anticipation level goes, or lack thereof... OTOH, last time around, Levine was here to blow smoke up our asses.
Once bitten, twice shy.
Head to the 2K forums, and the anticipation level is pretty high. Heck, their viral "Something in the Sea" website has been attracting attention for literally months. It's even given some halfway interesting side-story buildup to BS2. There's a fellow named Mark Meltzer who's young daughter was kidnapped off of Montauk under very strange circumstances, and he's been investigating...
...As far as anticipatory content goes, 2K has really played it up, and I'd personally have to say that it's... Not Entirely Lame.
I guess I'm not really discussing DRM anymore.But like I said, for what I anticipate doing with the game (at least a little MP), the DRM is par for the course... I'll have to join up with GFWL anyway. It's already installed on my box, thanks to Fallout 3.
Shovelware? Yea, ZB may be right. But I really did like the story of BS1, even if the gameplay was a shruggable joke.
Like I said... decent story and a decent amount of rompage. I'm not expecting miracles. Just a good yarn and some good fun.
It'll use listen servers, so your games will be hosted off some guy's home internet connection, so be prepared for questionable pings. Also if his PC's performance starts chugging, it'll affect everyone as well.
Also there's bloody matchmaking, anyone who's played in a similar game (i.e. a lot of console ports of recent years) will know that these solutions can live dangling in a lobby for several minutes whilst you wait for more players to pop in before the match will start.
Well Thanks for that, perhaps my long absence from the scene has made me more of a n00b than I even anticipated.
If I ever learned anything, though, from working at a gas station on 3rd shift (besides obeying the command, "Gimme the Money"), it was this: If one guy pulled up, 3 more guys would pull up. Business always came in bursts.
So it might not be futile to join a 1 out of x game, but like you said... if the host's bandwith is shit, there you go. There's really no way to know that, unless you join a game that's 6/8 already.
I won't host my own shit, because my upstream is shit already... 768K.
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