The Dark Knight Rises

[Scots Taffer]

I realised with the recent casting news there was no thread to chat about it in, so here's the remedy!

The Dark Knight Rises is the third and final Christopher Nolan Batman movie (and potentially the last Bale Batman movie too). Other confirmed facts: Two-Face is dead, he won't reprise his role, and there will be no Robin while Bale or Nolan are involved in the franchise.

But... that doesn't mean the studio is done with the franchise with this movie, and you can't expect they would drop it or reboot it given the squillions of dollars it has made them.

So this may explain the choices for the two new characters (and potential villains) in Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle (not announced as Catwoman, but we all know that story) and Tom Hardy as Bane, though I can't say I'm particularly psyched about either.

First off, the characters...

The Catwoman is arguably as iconic as the Joker but apart from being mauled twice in movie adaptations. Pfieffer did a good enough job with what she was given and definitely ratcheted up the psychosexual side of the character but pretty sure Berry undid all of that with whatever that horrendous piece of shit was that I never saw. Her character is certainly on the more unbelievable/supernatural side of the villain equation and how they will make her a convincing villain in a more "real world" Batman will be certainly interesting, but I'm naturally dubious.

Bane... ugh. Let's ignore Batman and Robin's version of Bane and pretend he's new... we don't have any of the lead-ins for Bane's existence do we? Supersoldier with superstrength? Really? If not that and something more believable then what? The speculation on how this fits into Nolan's Batverse is far less compelling to discuss and is just more confusing than anything else.

Are these going to be fully formed villains that spring up a la The Joker? There's been no foreshadowing of these two, so it's hard to slide them in like they did with him. Are they going to try and do the Two-Face character arc of person turning into a villain and being defeated all in one movie... this time in stereo? It seems like the overstuffing issues that could have capsized The Dark Knight haven't been heeded.

Secondly, the actors...

Anne Hathaway is a real blank canvas. I find her pretty empty in most things I've seen her in (not many) but it's not like Nolan's had a great track record with his females in his other movies, particularly the Batman flicks. Tom Hardy seems like a potentially solid character actor so that speaks more to casting him in a supporting role rather than as a villain, particularly not a brutish dull-headed villain, unless they totally reinvent the character as a wise-cracking dream-invading shape-shifter in a Batman/Inception cross-over. Again, not particularly jazzed about these choices.

To cap it all off, then you've got to tell a story that's a fitting conclusion to the Nolan Batman saga for Bruce/Bats after dealing with the aftermath of TDK.

I love Nolan's work, but I'm seriously left scratching my head after these announcements. Thoughts?

[Subjective Effect]

I was quite pleased with the casting, and I think Nolan has chosen these two characters because he has a good idea about what to do with them and by that I mean translate them into something that does fit in the universe.

It's going to be very, very hard to top Ledger's Joker because damn he was good. But Hardy IS a great character actor and in that respect he's puuurfect (oh yes I did) for this role. He has the ability to get buff and nasty. Did you ever see that BBC2 London East End gangster drama? He was was proper naaarsty in it.

Hathaway has the ability but more important the gravitas, the presence. I doubt Nolan'll make her into something too crazy though and she'll probably make Pfeiffer look really over the top. I know what you mean by the blankness though - she's all big eyes and smiles all the time. I'll give her a chance though, and I like her look.

Tom Hardy seems like a potentially solid character actor so that speaks more to casting him in a supporting role rather than as a villain, particularly not a brutish dull-headed villain

a. You've not seen Bronson have you?

b. You don't really know about Bane's character do you? Find out and then rethink it. Hardy is an excellent choice for it.

[Scots Taffer]

a. no
b. the character summary given EVERYWHERE is "supersolider addicted to venom which gives him superstrength" and his depiction in games/movies thus far definitely falls into the dull end of the spectrum

[Subjective Effect]

Protip: He's a genius.

You've been fooled by Batman Arkham Asylum and the other Batman series, the crappy one with George Clooney in it or something.

Hardy in Bronson after working out so he looks like real guy.

[Scots Taffer]

So what are we thinking... protégé working for Lucius? Goes off deep end when Wayne scraps the work?

[Subjective Effect]

I doubt it. Nolan is more likely to take some flavour of the comic book character origin so I think these characters, like the Joker, will come fully formed. He's unlikely to do origin stories on them, or at least I hope he doesn't - especially not on Bane! It'll be really lame because the characters should be mature and doing their own thing when Batman meets them.

In fact you've just mentioned one way to mess it up - having Bane as some disgruntled Waynecorp employee who gets the superserum from Wayne's own experimental division! Oh lord!

[Scots Taffer]

Still wish it'd been The Riddler.

edit: ah, I see I've been sledged for a totally off-the-cuff suggestion... well, let's just say it doesn't sound any worse than his wiki bio

During his years in prison, Bane carries a teddy bear he calls Osito (Spanish for "little bear"), whom he considers his only friend.

Doesn't seem to mention he's a genius, just a voracious reader of books and a murderer who spent most of his life in prison.

[Subjective Effect]

Actually a Nolan Riddler would have been great. I can imagine some really intelligent and twisted schemes coming out but I worry that there would be a whole riddle me this thing where people, or a person, will die if Batman mess it up. And in Nolan's vision so far it'd be a little bit dark, a little bit grim. And remind me of Saw.

[gunsmoke]

b. You don't really know about Bane's character do you? Find out and then rethink it. Hardy is an excellent choice for it.

This. I agree 100%!

[fett]

Just so it's been said out loud: Bane sucks. He sucked in the comic books, he sucked in the TV series, he sucked in the Lego Batman game. His backstory is boring as fuck, he looks like a pro-wrestler who couldn't afford a decent speedo, and he's always come off as a lazy default bad-guy who crawled out of a pot-smoking session by the writers.

Bane sucks. It's really hard to fix suck.

[Vivian]

I'm not sure I want to know about scots' dark knight rising if you get me

[Subjective Effect]

Bane sucks. It's really hard to fix suck.

He kind of does but Nolan + Tom Hardy = potential for a very cool take on the character.

Doesn't seem to mention he's a genius, just a voracious reader of books and a murderer who spent most of his life in prison.

To nit-pick; yes it does actually, in the summary panel.

Besides, the main point is he's supposed to be highly intelligent and not a "dull-head". I agree that this is the way he is portrayed in much screen media but that's not what he's like in the comics.

[fett]

Yes, but in the comics, his intelligence makes him even more yawn-inducing. Like, "Get it? See he looks dumb, but he's really, really smart. See what we did there?" Nolan is better than the patronizing bullshit and laziness that has been the Bane character from his very first appearance.

[JediKorenchkin]

I'm actually happy with the idea of Bane. The rumours going around before this announcement were focused mainly on Dr. Hugo Strange. I felt the idea of a doctor character was too similar to Crane / Scarecrow in Batman Begins.

But Bane kind of combines the best part of that with something awesome. I can't really see Nolan going the "pro-wrestler" / "power serum" route, but in some of the comics, Bane was a highly intelligent individual who spent most of his time in prison learning and studying. He's a brilliant mind who is one of the few people to ever deduce Batman's identity.

Plus, if Nolan wants to go that route, crippling or killing Batman would be a pretty goddamn ballsy way to end his trilogy.

[Aerothorn]

in before Stitch hate.

Though I shouldn't talk, I still haven't seen The Dark Knight.

[Stitch]

I can loan you my copy

[SD]

On a purely carnal level the thought of Hathaway in a Pfeiffer-style catsuit has my bat sense twitching, but they'll probably ruin it like they did with Black Widow's costume in Iron Man 2. Which Hollywood faggot put Scarlett Johansson in skintight denim?

[Aerothorn]

I can loan you my copy

It's that much better than Batman Begins, then? I'm delighted to hear it - I'll definitely check it out, then (so far all recommendation have come from BB lovers).

[CCCToad]

Just so it's been said out loud: Bane sucks. He sucked in the comic books, he sucked in the TV series, he sucked in the Lego Batman game. His backstory is boring as fuck, he looks like a pro-wrestler who couldn't afford a decent speedo, and he's always come off as a lazy default bad-guy who crawled out of a pot-smoking session by the writers.

Bane sucks. It's really hard to fix suck.

He also sucked in Arkham Asylum.

[van HellSing]

As for Bane's origin in the movie, the first idea that came to my mind was that they could make him one of the knockoff "batmen".

[MrDuck]

Bane rocked in Knigthfall, at least up until he breaks the Batman. He was a one-shot villian, like Doomsday for Superman (though Hunter/Prey was pretty neat...).

He was kind of cool in Legacy too, though, as R'as's new Ubu.

But, yeah, everything else is kind of meh.

I have to agree I find the choices of villians somewhat odd. Let us see how Nolan spins this.

Shame about Two-Face giving up the ghost...wish villians weren't also one-shot in most movies based on comicbook characters....

[Stitch]

It's that much better than Batman Begins, then? I'm delighted to hear it - I'll definitely check it out, then (so far all recommendation have come from BB lovers).

The Dark Knight is a huge mess just waiting for an editor--the last act is pretty uninvited--but whenever Heath Ledger is on screen the film is a treasure.

[fett]

What do you mean by "uninvited?" I felt the film should have ended with the birth of Two-Face and the rest be saved for the third film. Too long, a little off track, and very rushed. I didn't mind it at first but I've noticed this on repeat viewings.

[Morte]

Shame about Two-Face giving up the ghost...wish villians weren't also one-shot in most movies based on comicbook characters....

As far as I understand, that was at the studio's insistence. The original plan was to save Two-Face for the third movie.

I'd like The Dark Knight a whole lot more if they hadn't overloaded the third act, and simply cut to the credits with the Joker hanging upside down, laughing.

[Bluegrime]

I'm going to be interested in seeing how they (try to) fit Bane into the feeling of the new series. He dosen't have the depth of crazy/tragic that Joker and Two Face had, but they also made a good movie out of Scarecrow who is imo pretty b-list on the cast of recurring villains. I think it would make for some great fight scenes to pit Bale Batman against someone he can't just beat to a pulp even if the movie on the whole won't be as psychological as the previous two. Hopefully other villains can fill in the dialogue, because I would feel jipped if Bane spent more time talking then fighting in the movie.