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Thread: S.T.A.L.K.E.R. "Complete" sucks

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Location: hehe lol

    S.T.A.L.K.E.R. "Complete" sucks

    So I finally gave Complete a go for the first time recently and imho it ruins these games. Dumbed-down AI, altered ballistics (varied probability to hit has been completely removed lol), lollerskates sprinting (you can cross major areas in less than a minute without fatigue), fucked-up FOV, removed headbob, broken actor proportions, increased inventory limit and a whole host of other bullshit that isn't stated in the feature list, not to mention other stuff further in that I didn't see before uninstalling this heinous garbage.

    I tried fiddling with the mods - changing ltx settings to 'my taste,' but they seem to be such that I don't think even artistpavel knows what he changed. Just compare the sprinting between the mod and vanilla, laugh out loud at the motorbike-speed sprinting and note how it isn't documented anywhere (at least not on moddb). Also TELEPORTING - WTF???

    Vanilla Stalker (all three of them) is one of the best gameplay experiences you can have. I'd advise playing it unmodded (especially if you like hard shooters), since Complete makes the games a total roflstomp. I'd even go so far as to say Stalker never needed improved graphics, so this mod is pointless (I know the graphics aren't to everybody's taste, but jesus christ at least it doesn't look like every other goddamn game on the market).

    If you want a decent crack at Stalker, play it vanilla with a bugfix bundle (e.g. the Sky Reclamation Project). Off the top of my head, the only other mod that might be worthwhile is iron sights for pistols in Clear Sky.

    The Stalker Complete thing is snake oil. You don't need it, it breaks more than it fixes and the game is fucking perfect as it is.

  2. #2
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
    Vanilla Stalker (all three of them) is one of the best gameplay experiences you can have.
    STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl was the biggest gaming disappointment since Half-Life 2. And while you might make excuses for GSC because they're occupying a shack in the middle of Siberia, because SoC was their second FPS game ever, because it was incredibly ambitious with huge, open world and advanced AI and because they set themselves a goal of recreating the position of every single brick in the Zone - nobody gives a fuck. Bigger, more complicated and outright better games were made in less than half the time.

    What I find most mindboggling is that fanboys love rambling about how awesome SoC is while at the same time dissing CoP most of the time. The reason I find this mindboggling is because CoP represents a step forward, and in many cases a huge fucking leap forward, in almost every department. It is, to put it simply, a better game. So I thought it would only be fitting if, making a review that pointed out all of SoC's flaws, I would also note how they were fixed in CoP.

    In my benevolence I will be completely ignoring Clear Sky because it was a complete waste of everyone's time and the only good thing in it was the Bandit polka. No need to thank me.

    1. The Story

    There is nothing particularly wrong with SoC's story, but there is something very wrong with the narrative. Simply speaking, there is no narrative in SoC. The main quest line is just a series of fed-ex tasks. Which wouldn't be that bad in itself, but...

    - Bring Sid the USB drive from Nimble. You can't read the drive, and Sid doesn't tell you what's on it.
    - Get the military documents from Agroprom and bring them to the Barkeep. You can't read them and Barkeep doesn't tell you what they're about.
    - Get the documents from X18. You can't read them and, yes, Barkeep doesn't tell you what they're about.
    - Turn off the thingy in X16 which as far as I'm aware doesn't relate to the rest of the game in any way whatsoever.
    - Flip the Brain Scorcher switch.
    - NPP.

    And that's it. Here's the real problem: nobody tells you anything in SoC and there is no motivation to go forward other than the fact that you can and well, this is a videogame so it has an end so let's go there. The NPCs treat the player like a retard who wouldn't understand the mystical intricates of what's going on anyway or simply a disposable muscle to do shit without asking any questions. So you know nothing through the entire game and then when you open the Secret Door in the NPP and get the whole story in ten minute long monologue of a ghost pensioner - noosphere, who made the Zone, why, when and how - it feels almost like a bunch of random bullshit and deus ex machina despite the fact it makes perfect sense and there really aren't any plotholes in it or anything.

    You might think the whole "Kill Strelok" sub-plot somehow makes the narrative more meaningful or deep or whatever but you'd be wrong, because it doesn't change a damn thing. The fact that you are Strelok has literally no impact on the game whatsoever. If the hideout door where the decoder is located - an ordinary wooden door - in Pripyat weren't locked with a Plot Key and indestructible, you could find the hideout and get the decoder to the Secret Door in NPP just by exploring the place! As if that wasn't enough the Strelok sub-plot is literally forced down your throat and follows the main quest religiously, breaking away only once when you need to backtrack to Agroprom to meet Doctor. You'd have to be a console ADD kiddie to miss this. I know you did.

    So how is it better in CoP? Well, for starters there is a narrative. You have a clear goal. You inspect the crash sites, get evacuation zone coordinates, explore those, join the military in Pripyat, help them survive and escape. When you find documents you can either read them or you get a short summary what they're about, either in the inventory or with a short cutscene. At any point in the game you can ask yourself "Why I'm doing this?" and get a clear and immediate answer. Not a Pulitzer material to be sure but it's bare fucking minimum, something SoC couldn't achieve.

    2. The Zone

    One of my biggest original complaints about SoC was that there are way too many people in it. Despite supposedly being in a super dangerous cordoned-off-by-the-military-shot-on-sight no-man's land you spend significant majority of the game shooting and being shot at by other human beings. Most players don't even realize how bad this is, so here's a quick reminder:

    - Cordon: Bandits guarding Nimble, several bandits guarding the way to Garbage
    - Garbage: Bandits as you enter, Bandits attacking the car junkyard, Bandits on the way to the hangar, Bandits in the hangar, Bandits on the way to Agroprom
    - Agroprom: Soldiers in northern complex, Bandits in the underground, Soldiers in the underground, Soldiers in the southern complex, Soldiers guarding the way out once you grab the documents

    And so on, through almost the entire the game, sole exception being labs and Yantar, which has zombies who are ten times as scary as humans even though they're probably least threatening enemy in the game. You can't open a Tourist's Delight in SoC without murdering a dozen people. As if the pre-populated locations weren't enough, because of a timer bug everything in the game respawns instantly as soon as you load the game or enter the level, so you'll be doing some serious overtime clearing out random camps as well.

    Now you might say: "Koki you dumb fuck, it's a first person shooter, it's about shooting dudes". Well in a way, yes, but there is a problem with fighting human enemies: it's very common, very normal, and everyone's been doing it since Wolfenstein 3D. There is a reason why horror games use monsters and not people with fire axes: human enemies, even fanatics like the Monolith, represent a well-known element that any FPS player over the age of 12 is so used to that it almost feels like home. And the reason this is bullshit in STALKER is because the main theme of the game is the unknown, alien, hostlie Zone. So on one hand you have all these new and fascinating but also scary and/or dangerous things like mutants and anomalies, and at the other - you're constantly bombarded with humans, who reduce it all to the level of any average run & gun FPS. Mutants, mutants and more mutants should be the main enemy through the game. Dozen Monolith soldiers? Pffft, who cares. Pack of Blind Dogs? HOLY SHIT GET TO THE HIGH GROUND

    Picture this scenario which happened to me on my first playthrough: I was exploring the abandoned lab/bunker under the Antennaes looking for a way to turn off the Brain Scorcher. The lab/bunker is completely empty save for a few Bloodsuckers and I found the place genuinely creepy - like most labs. But as soon as I flipped the Brain Scorcher switch and the cutscene ended, my "Stalker Counter" next to the minimap went ping-ping-ping-ping as the whole lab/bunker was instantly repopulated with Monolith soldiers. And I remember thinking to myself, at that very moment: That's good. At least I don't need to backtrack to the entrance all alone now.

    Isn't that the very fucking opposite of what you want to achieve when designing a creepy location?

    Making humans the main enemy through most of the game creates another problem - sooner or later the player is going to ask himself a simple question: "Why am I not dead yet?". Like when Barkeep sends you to your first lab, which involves killing 30+ Bandits and their leader in an abandoned industrial complex to get the key from Borov. As you're slaughtering your way through your fellow men, which is nothing short of a chore(see below), sooner or later you stop and ask yourself: did the Barkeep really just send one guy against thirty as if it were nothing? After all, like the enemies, you're just a human with a gun - likely same as they're using - yourself. Unless the game estabilished that the player character is special or unique in some way - and STALKER really doesn't, all you have is a bad tattoo - then the immediate and correct answer as to why you're still alive is "because I'm a player in a videogame so I have more HP and my weapon does more damage and the AI is stupid". Which, of course, instantly kicks you out of the game and atmosphere is ruined until you get back in again.

    So how does CoP manage to fix all that? Well, first of all there are much less camps/active groups in the Zone in general and they wander in smaller numbers(I believe the max is 3 people per group, except Zombies). Second of all, because Bandits are not inherently hostile to the player, there aren't many "random" fights against humans in general. Making Bandits neutral was a ham-fisted way of solving the issue, but it did the job. Finally, in CoP the developers weren't afraid to leave some locations simply empty. For example, the entire Jupiter plant is empty except for a pack of dogs and two Psy Dogs, which is wonderful for the atmoshpere of the place when you're spelunking it for documents. The same location in SoC would be packed full of Bandits/Military/Monolith who completely incidentally just happened to occupy the place where you needed to go.

    As for not dying to bullets, whenever you actually fight other humans in CoP you usually have either AI support or an option of AI support. Not only this makes the game more believable(no more one-man-army approach) but allows the devs to make AI more competent and dangerous. After all if you're expected to attack the enemy camp alone the AI must be either weak or dumb, otherwise the game will be too hard. But if you give the player a supporting force and never purposefully put him in a situation where it's him vs. the world, the AI can be made semi-competent with weapons that actually do damage.

    3. The Shooty Bits

    As someone who made a weapon mod for SoC I can say that it features one of the most advanced firearm mechanics I've ever seen in an FPS, and not only ye olde run and gun FPSes but also half-sims like Operation Flashpoint. In practice you will never appreciate many subtelties of these mechanics because entire gunplay in SoC has been dumbed down immensely to follow the linearity of the game: You start with piss-poor weapons and as you go deeper and deeper into the Zone you find better ones. This results in most of guns in the game being about as accurate and damaging as rocks and their intricate system of stats simply ruined for the sake of this artificial sense of progress. Significant majority of firearms are just stepping stones on the way to the 2-3 end-game weapons that actually shoot in a straight line and kill people. Which is just mindboggling considering how many different firearms there are in SoC - and almost all of them are useless. Furthermore, because the damage on them has been nerfed to accomodate for the end-game weapons, most enemies in the game end up as bullet sponges until you get the end-game guns. All this - bullets that do little damage fired from weapons as accurate as slings - makes the firefights nothing but a chore until endgame.

    So how does CoP make this better? By making the world much more open and 2/3 of it accessible right from the start. This means the devs are freed from the constraints of designing an artificial progress meter and weapons can be designed to not be better or worse but simply different. The CoP weapons also do more damage to enemies and are more accurate overall, plus they feature a pretty extensive upgrade system in which almost everything but the damage can be modified.

    And unlike SoC they can be repaired. Who the fuck thought about introducing breakable weapons and armor in the game and not give the player any means of repairing them, other than using an engine glitch?

    4. The Anomalies, the Artifacts

    Anomalies in SoC are points on the map which make you lose health when you come in contact with them. Yeah, one looks like green goo and other like static electricity and another distorts air around it but they all work exactly the same way and they are all harmful to the player and should be avoided. How unimaginative is that?

    Very.

    Additionally, anomalies in SoC are not just points on the map, they are literally points on the map. They're almost completely random and most of the time just out of place. Some field and some gravity anomalies. Why gravity anomalies? Why there? How? It's as if they made the maps first and then just sprinkled them with fancy graphical equivalent of a pitfall. Oh wait, that is exactly how they did it. Too bad that after doing this they forgot to make NPC Stalkers avoid them and they walk into them at sightseeing pace like complete retards.

    Artifacts are fine for the most part - though magic rocks that all weight the same and take same amount of space is about as unimaginative as the anomalies - except for the ones that protect you from the damage. Okay I can accept an artifact which wears off your muscle tissue faster or makes your blood clot quicker, but when you introduce stuff like "protects you from bullets" or "protects from scratches" that's just bullshit and we're suddenly in Elder Scrolls. No amount of pseudoscience will explain that. And why are all the artifacts just lying around on the ground? Is that it? It's amazing to see Bandits fight Stalkers - presumably for their artifacts - in a location that is full of artifacts just lying on the ground. And once the battle is over, nobody will bother to pick them up because nobody at GSC coded that it. Marvelous.

    In CoP the -damage artifacts have been simply removed from the game. Can't say I'm a huge fan of "it doesn't work, so let's remove it" but that's a lesser evil here. Artifacts stay as universa sizel 0.5kg rocks, sadly.

    The real overhaul in CoP was done to the anomalies themselves. Now they're grouped into fields and integrated into the level. The examples are so obvious I won't even bother - almost every anomaly field in CoP is part of the level geometry rather than just a bunch of deathtraps lumped together or scattered around. The downside to it is that you can run everywhere like a Forrest Gump wannabee without worrying about throwing bolts, but I can't say walking everywhere constantly throwing bolts in front of you until you memorize position of anomalies along most frequented paths was a great gaming experience anyway. We even managed to get one beneficial anomaly in CoP - which only scratches the lid on the Box of Ideas for anomalies, but is nonetheless a step in the right direction.

    5. The Trading

    Two shops in the game. Other Stalkers only buy Vodka. Good fucking luck backtracking two maps to sell all your shit, especially since everything on the way respawned already and you'll have to fight it again. Yeah, CoP has two shops as well, but it has only three open maps total so it's a non-issue, and other Stalkers are interested in almost everything.

    6. The Inventory

    There is nothing wrong with the inventory limit itself. I'm not one of the twerps who need to edit the value to carry 10000kg because their OCD makes them pick all the trash they see. But, as many things in SoC, the weight limit is a good idea gone bad. Specifically, it's other ideas gone bad - unrepairable weapons and armor that force you to carry spares, weak/inaccurate weapons that make you carry at least 300 rounds for your main gun at all times, etc. - that ruined the weight limit. When playing with one armor, one-two main weapons and carrying just few spare mags of ammo the inventory limit is more than enough. But that's impossible in vanilla SoC. It is possible in CoP.

    7. Stashes

    Another nice idea executed in the most retarded way possible, in SoC the Stashes don't exist until someone tells you about them effectively DISCOURAGING exploration. Found a cleverly hidden box in this ruin surrounded by deadly anomalies? Tough luck Chuck, come back when someone tells you about it and when finding it will be no challenge at all to collect your reward! Yep, CoP fixes that again, you can pick any stash you like at any time, which makes it actually worth it to keep an eye out and look around.

    8. More like h8 amirite

    All that sounds pretty damning, but really represents only half of SoC's problems because many of them don't work individually but create synergy with each other and double the trouble. Some of the synergies have already been mentioned(weak guns require a lot of ammo, which weights a lot, which limits normally generous inventory space for example), some didn't(now that your inventory limit is blocked by ton of ammo and spare weapons/armor, combine that with only two shops in the game), but they all make the game even worse than it already is. And it already is pretty bad, I'd give SoC 5/10(not counting bugs), which considering it's ambition, size, semi-believable world, atmosphere - when it works - and amazing setting really is a horrible score.

    It should also be noted that many of these shitty "features" have been fixed in fan patches. That is true, and Complete mod alone is enough to make the game 8/10. But a game's quality cannot be judged by third-party mods; otherwise the devs might as well put nothing but C++ in the box with a note "MAKE THE GAME YOURSELF, ASSHOLE".
    Last edited by Koki; 21st Feb 2012 at 07:25.

  3. #3
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon
    Dumbed-down AI, altered ballistics (varied probability to hit has been completely removed lol), lollerskates sprinting (you can cross major areas in less than a minute without fatigue), fucked-up FOV, removed headbob, broken actor proportions, increased inventory limit and a whole host of other bullshit that isn't stated in the feature list, not to mention other stuff further in that I didn't see before uninstalling this heinous garbage.
    Also I should probably mention I have no fucking idea what you're talking about since the only thing you mentioned that's actually in Complete is the reduced headbob.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: California
    I hope you didn't just write all of that bullshit out.

  5. #5
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    You are welcome to provide evidence to the contrary, bro.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Location: hehe lol
    A quick response to your last post is that I am not going to download all 700 megs of that shit again to make a youtube video about how hilaribad that mod is. Did you play the game using Complete? Did you notice the sprinting or the AI ignoring you more than fifty percent of the time and hitting you less than that?

    Example - KoGaR's rules of engagement changes. I'm standing twenty metres away from a bandit at Cordon, middle of the day. What, he can't see me? Ah okay, well I guess it must be something from this dumb fucking blob of files I installed on top of the vanilla game.

    I would give not one fuck if they made some of this stuff optional but jesus christ, 700 megs of changes and pretty much all you can change back is the headbob and inventory weight limit changes. I don't want to harp on this too much because it is just my opinion that this mod is overrated and people should try the vanilla game before installing UBER EPIX OVERHAUL MOD

    As for your first post:

    Okay it is hard to disagree with most of that, certainly not the first point on the plot. Bear in mind I am referring to all Stalker games released so far, not just SoC.

    I guess you need to name some games that you think are better than Stalker: SoC, other than CoP (which I love equally, even if the gunplay was not as difficult as in SoC, as artificial as you think that might be). I can think of some that are close but no cigar.

    SoC features pretty advanced firearm mechanics - enough to say that they went to trouble of giving every weapon an inertia stat which, in theory, would make heavier weapons decrease your mouse sensitivity when you wield them in-game. In practice you will never appreciate many subtelties of these mechanics because entire gunplay in SoC has been dumbed down immensely to follow the linearity of the game: You start with piss-poor weapons and as you go deeper and deeper into the Zone you will find better ones. This results in most of guns in the game being about as accurate and damaging as rocks. Significant majority of firearms are just stepping stones on the way to the 2-3 "end-game" weapons that actually shoot in a straight line and kill people. Which is just mind-boggling considering how many different firearms there are in SoC - and almost all of them are useless.
    I'm well aware how advanced the firearm mechanics are and I think they were implemented well. The first time I picked up a shitty pistol in SoC, I thought 'well this really is a piece of shit.' So I waited for one of those guys in the yard to drop a sawn-off and hey presto I can blast these motherfuckers at point blank when they walk around the corner. Rinse and repeat for any other scenarios. Getting your ass handed to you? Work out a manoeuvrability build/sniper build/whatever.

    You can often look at a char and see him carrying a Vintar BC and think 'hm, I want that,' then take him out. IIRC, I ended SoC with a TRs-301, a Tunder, a SPAS and an Exo. TRs-301 can be bought from Skinflint or even at the Bar in SoC. In Clear Sky the Akm-74/2 fucking rocks, and you can upgrade it either for ramboing or for flatness & accuracy. I used it as my main rifle until Freedom gave me a SiG.

    Artifacts undoubtedly need more imagination. As do anomalies. I do hope they implement these better in Stalker 2

    Okay so you need to kill 20 baddies to get something, as nobody told you what. That's pretty stupid but whatever, so you get there fighting three random fights on the way and start the war of attrition with the enemy because your guns are shit and barely work. Once you agonizingly slaughter your way to whatever the hell nobody told you about you notice that both your unique gun and your armor are now almost fucking worthless because of the condition they're in.
    I never had this problem. Maybe because I'm fucking elite? I dunno.

    You make a mental note about picking some shit to sell to afford new ones but then you realize nearest shop is fucking two maps away. You try to sell something to other Stalkers but they don't want it, so you have no choice but to backtrack for five minutes. Five minutes running - and you're overloaded - and five minutes assuming no one will attack you - but of course the three camps you obliterated not even half an hour ago are full again. Once you get to the trader you decide to be smart and buy not one but two guns and two armors to have spares, only to realize this will leave you with only few hundred rounds of ammunition because of the fucking weight limit, and few hundred rounds is just halfway there in STALKER version of armed combat.
    My view is that inventory weight limit was meant to force you to decide on what was important to you. Are you going to carry shitty armour, a shotgun, assault rifle and pistol and loads of ammo, or will you get decent armour and pick a sniper rifle and just a decent pistol/shotgun? The inventory stuff was about compromises, at least in my eyes. Much like in games where you can only have two primary weapons. You can't have an assault rifle, heavy machine gun, spas and sniper rifle on your back at once then go hoofing across the map.

    Being smart probably would have meant choosing a compromise that meant having a decent ratio of guns to ammo to armour, so that you wouldn't have to mule shit across the map all the time (which is a fucking hard habit to drop, no doubt about it).

    On the whole I agree with almost everything you said. Yet I don't think it made SoC a bad game. I still think its climax at the NPP is the greatest thing I have ever seen in a game. I was excited by the hype, yet I wasn't disappointed by the final product. I guess my expectations weren't that high considering the shitty conditions and problems they ran into during development. So I was fucking blown away. The importance of CoP is the promising direction it took. They made subtle changes to a good formula and now they're moving onto Stalker 2.

    Also Bandit Polka for the win

  7. #7
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    I did play SoC Complete. I don't remember sprint being faster, FOV being different, and AI being half-blind, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
    My view is that inventory weight limit was meant to force you to decide on what was important to you.
    My view is that a lot of features in STALKER were introduced back when it was 1935. But when THQ realized GSC has been milking them for six years and didn't produce shit, they grabbed them by the balls and GSC had to quickly throw something together whether they wanted it or not. And thus, SoC was born.

    THQ ran a competition in January 2007 offering the winners the chance to play the beta version of S.T.A.L.K.E.R., in a 24 hour marathon session. The event, scheduled to take place on January 24, 2007, was subsequently changed to a 12 hour session days before it was supposed to occur. On the morning of the event, the winners were met at the venue by the THQ staff that had organized the event, who were embarrassed to report that they had been unable to get any copies of the game.
    In January '07 GSC wasn't even able to provide a working copy of the game. And it wend gold on March 2nd. 39 days later!

    So many parts of the game were "dumbed down" to make something workable out of it(read: more like a traditional FPS), and some were dropped alltogether(like the belt, which was great).

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    Koki inspired beyond one or two lines of snark is a thing to behold.

    But anyway, I saw someone else not long ago (forget where exactly) saying "I hate Complete, it does -this- and -this- and -this- it sucks" too. My reaction remains the same
    "What?" Since when?"

    Last time I played it it was basically nicer looking, more stable vanilla with bug fixes and grenades and that's about it (and crap Controller sounds. But very good Snork sounds). I found it very true to the original experience on the whole. I'd even recommend it for a first playthough.
    I don't know what all this stuff is about. Never happened to me.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Location: hehe lol
    Have you actually compared them back-to-back? It is easy to forget the differences when you have a few months or a year in between replays.

    Bunch of similar complaints

    Kenyan sprinting thrad

    I still think vanilla is best for a first time playthrough. Especially if people are apparently unable to discern the differences between vanilla and "complete".

    My view is that a lot of features in STALKER were introduced back when it was 1935. But when THQ realized GSC has been milking them for six years and didn't produce shit, they grabbed them by the balls and GSC had to quickly throw something together whether they wanted it or not. And thus, SoC was born.
    I understand your disappointment. The trailers all those years ago were amazing. Yet there is a difference between a disappointment and a bad game. You could also argue that THQ fucked it up, not GSC. Building a game of this size is no small feat. If you rounded up all the requisite engineering, organisational and artistic talent required to realise their original ambition and had a few million bucks, it would still take years to make.

    Either way, this is subjective. I think the Stalker series is the finest made. Other people can disagree and not one fuck will be given. My point is that Stalker Complete does not a better game make

  10. #10
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
    Have you actually compared them back-to-back? It is easy to forget the differences when you have a few months or a year in between replays.
    Well, have you? Most people don't play vanilla SoC, they use OL or AMK or Narodnaya Solyanka or whatever which alter the game substantially.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R. "Complete" sucks
    More like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. completely sucks. Have to agree with Koki on this one, SoC never was a very good game to begin with.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
    Have you actually compared them back-to-back? It is easy to forget the differences when you have a few months or a year in between replays.

    I still think vanilla is best for a first time playthrough. Especially if people are apparently unable to discern the differences between vanilla and "complete".
    I'd agree if these differences were present. I'm not saying they're not, it's just that they weren't there or noticeable for me. I've no idea why. I don't remember any such complaints when Complete first came out. It's only been in the time since, making me think something has changed inbetween.

    I would have played it when I had been using AMK prettymuch exclusively on murderous difficulty. The only thing I really noticed was the weapon damage. I had forgotten it used more of a shooter model than I was used to. The AI was fine, good even (in fact I seem to remember Complete uses the same AI mod as AMK)
    Reviewers noted the sprinting and stamina when the game first came out. I never found Complete any different to vanilla. The number of artifacts was about the same too: really common compared to the subsequent games but Complete didn't seem to increase it for me. Some places always had loads. That field on the north end of Agroprom usually has them bouncing all over the place. Was quite a shock after playing CoP for a while.

    Like I said: these complaints have been surfacing around the place here and there. They seem relatively new or rare so I'm going to conclude something screwy is going on, not that Complete is just screwed. (I mean, it's not like bugs, corruption or borked installs never happened in Stalker)

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Location: hehe lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Koki View Post
    Well, have you? Most people don't play vanilla SoC, they use OL or AMK or Narodnaya Solyanka or whatever which alter the game substantially.
    Yeah I compared them one against the other, three days ago. Two separate clean installations. Welp. Muz, you might be right - maybe they broke something along the way. The complaints I have seen only date from late last year to now, so who knows

  14. #14
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2013

    Woah haha. fucking fags.

    [QUOTE=Koki;2083644]STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl was the biggest gaming disappointment since Half-Life 2. And while you might make excuses for GSC because they're occupying a shack in the middle of Siberia, because SoC was their second FPS game ever, because it was incredibly ambitious with huge, open world and advanced AI and because they set themselves a goal of recreating the position of every single brick in the Zone - nobody gives a fuck. Bigger, more complicated and outright better games were made in less than half the time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
    Koki inspired beyond one or two lines of snark is a thing to behold.

    But anyway, I saw someone else not long ago (forget where exactly) saying "I hate Complete, it does -this- and -this- and -this- it sucks" too. My reaction remains the same
    "What?" Since when?"

    Last time I played it it was basically nicer looking, more stable vanilla with bug fixes and grenades and that's about it (and crap Controller sounds. But very good Snork sounds). I found it very true to the original experience on the whole. I'd even recommend it for a first playthough.
    I don't know what all this stuff is about. Never happened to me.
    Woah. All these fucking stupid comments. Sound like you never played the game Vanilla, just got trough Complete Bullshit mod. But you have a point Koki. Bandit polka was the best thing in Clear Sky

  15. #15
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: 4 doors down, bad side of town
    you must be new here

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2013
    hello .. i somewhat agree with Vernon with following notes:

    - the game is unpleasant with not modified weapon damage, so the SC realistic weapon mod is must-to-have addon with SC
    - yes, the increased weight you can carry greatly sucks as well as slower sinking fatigue .. where can I change that back ? that's real pain
    - also the AI changed somehow, that the visibility range - especially at the daylight - is very unrealistic .. they don't see ya at plain road at 100m .. moreover, i tested vanilla game Vs SC and seems like the enemies are somewhat firing only from closer .. so for example you can remove soldiers in cordon outpost (at south) one by one with them only pointing the gun at you but not firing due the range - yes, that real ugly .. i've also found, that with decreased hearing range you you can kill the roaming 3 soldiers that they don't notice that you're shooting at them .. so you shot from ~70m the last one and nobody cares, they are just slowly walking ahead like nothing happens ..

    the rest is fine .. so summary:

    - i'd like to change back (lower|increase) the fatigue sinking and weight carry limit
    - i'd like to increase daylight visibility and probably some range from where the enemies are shooting at you + hearing range

    regards, daniel

  17. #17
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2013

    Complete is obsolete, get "Starter Pack" for your first playthrough

    Completes really are over-hyped, and nowadays also OBSOLETE mods, that introduce more problems than they claim to fix, plus they make the games much easier than vanillas.
    Just to list some of their most notable "features":

    - All weapons have their accuracy increased 10-20%
    - All damage decreased by few percents.
    - Weight limit increased by 10kg, maximum being 70kg. In vanilla the Exo-suit enabled up to 80kg!
    - Limits NPC's eye sight distance so they can't spot you from beyond ~100 meters. =You see them always first. Said to remove enemies skill to spot you from"unrealistic distances".
    - Sound radius of knife and other critical sounds such as falling dead bodies, grass, and footsteps greatly reduced
    - Reduced the sound distance of death cries
    - Repair Kit - A special item to the game that allows you to repair weapons and armors out in the Zone. Can be purchased or found.
    - The bar trader and Screw now sell weapons and armor repair services.
    - Elite Nightvision - Black & white night vision based on the psy_antenna postprocess effect. Replaces the original UV-based blue NV, and lets you see perfectly in the darkness, be there light sources or not.
    - The old, “green” night vision has much less noise and blur. NVs don't emit any audio noise anymore (=can't be heard by NPCs/mutants).
    - scientific suits with 90% rad protection now feature an anti-rad injection system.
    - bandages auto-apply at 10% health.
    - enabled a tracer effect for armor-piercing bullets, making them visually distinguishable when use
    - allows looting cash from bodies (CS & CoP only)
    - You can BRIBE hostile factions to leave you alone, even if you just massacred most of them!

    Saddest thing is, very few of the users of these mods even know half of its features or changes. This is why you hear 'em being called "vanilla 2.0" etc all the time.
    If you want to have TRULY just bug-fixes and optional, light-weight and style-wise very true to the original visual upgrades, look up the "Stalker Starter Packs" for all three games.
    You can find information, guide and links from this YT video and its description:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHWKexK7B_8&hd=1

  18. #18
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2013

    hello,

    i changed my mind a little bit .. i'm using curently complete mod with some changes to ltx files, notably:

    - changed back faster stamina sinking in actor.ltx
    - removed hit probability in weapons.ltx (set the value to 10000)
    - changed back original 60kg weight limit

    i'm playing at master difficulty and i can confirm, that with these changes and at this difficulty is game very challenging and human enemies are very very dangerous .. the only thing which still annoys me a little is more tighten spread of weapons which makes starter assault rifles still very competitive to later assault rifles at short range ..

    but generally Stalker SoC Complete 2009 is good mod after some tweaking and when played at master difficulty ..

    ragards, daniel

  19. #19
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    Complete gets my vote.

  20. #20
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    So you return after not posting for six years, to bump a one-year-old thread with a completely useless post.

    Bring out your alts!

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Stuttgart in Deutschland
    this is no game, it is evil.
    Last edited by Cyberpunkgothic1; 26th Aug 2014 at 10:19.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    Just reload from a prior save, Cyberpunk, and stop whining. Real Stalkers don't whine.


    At least, not a lot.







  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Doggy View Post
    Completes really are over-hyped, and nowadays also OBSOLETE mods, that introduce more problems than they claim to fix, plus they make the games much easier than vanillas.
    Just to list some of their most notable "features":

    - All weapons have their accuracy increased 10-20%
    - All damage decreased by few percents.
    - Weight limit increased by 10kg, maximum being 70kg. In vanilla the Exo-suit enabled up to 80kg!
    - Limits NPC's eye sight distance so they can't spot you from beyond ~100 meters. =You see them always first. Said to remove enemies skill to spot you from"unrealistic distances".
    - Sound radius of knife and other critical sounds such as falling dead bodies, grass, and footsteps greatly reduced
    - Reduced the sound distance of death cries
    - Repair Kit - A special item to the game that allows you to repair weapons and armors out in the Zone. Can be purchased or found.
    - The bar trader and Screw now sell weapons and armor repair services.
    - Elite Nightvision - Black & white night vision based on the psy_antenna postprocess effect. Replaces the original UV-based blue NV, and lets you see perfectly in the darkness, be there light sources or not.
    - The old, “green” night vision has much less noise and blur. NVs don't emit any audio noise anymore (=can't be heard by NPCs/mutants).
    - scientific suits with 90% rad protection now feature an anti-rad injection system.
    - bandages auto-apply at 10% health.
    - enabled a tracer effect for armor-piercing bullets, making them visually distinguishable when use
    - allows looting cash from bodies (CS & CoP only)
    - You can BRIBE hostile factions to leave you alone, even if you just massacred most of them!
    All the ones bolded are really lame and make me glad I did vanilla. The only ones that sound good really are the sound ones, because stealth is pretty broken to the point where it feels random.

    Does the damage decrease mean the game is more bullet-spongey? Like you take less damage, but also deal less damage?

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