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Thread: GTA V

  1. #76
    Registered: Mar 2006
    Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
    There is one thing that Rockstar could do to spice up the missions - use the fucking open world. It's always bothered me that they create this wonderful game world, with traffic, pedestrians, shops, police etc and then they funnel you through rigidly scripted missions they pretty much ignore all of this. Some ideas:
    * When a chase is on give the pursued a destination and if you don't catch them before they get there you maybe have a bigger fight on your hands as they are now at their 'home base'. If you lose them, then after a while a buddy rings you up telling you they've tracked the target down but now you have an even bigger fight because. No more fucking canned chases.
    * You've got to whack a guy. Give the target a simple schedule (day/night, work/home etc) and let the player decide when, where and how to take them out. Guns blazing in a restaurant in broad daylight? Wait for him at his house? Ram him off the road? Plant a car bomb?
    * You need to raise some cash. Hold up a store? Break into a house? Rob a bank? Steal some high performance cars from a car lot? Mafia 2 had a mission like this and even though it was too easy to knock off a couple of stores, the feeling I got when given the job and then the whole city to do it in was intoxicating.
    Still mix it up with more scripted stuff and keep all the other optional fluff too but get that overlap between the missions and sandbox stuff going.

    Some other things:
    * I hate compulsory racing. Why can't the plot move on because I didn't come first in some unimportant race? Saints Row 2 had the right idea, make racing optional.
    * I think the buddy system could work but obviously make them far less naggy and don't have them call you during a mission or when you're being chased by police. Don't have a negative consequence if you cancel or turn them down but if you do hang out with them enough then you can then call them up for backup, wheels etc. Pump up the amount of date/hangout banter too. I liked the buddy stuff initially because I enjoyed hearing them talk about what they're up to and their thoughts on other characters but it wasn't long before they ran out of things to say. In fact, make it they only call you if they've got something new (would be great if they kept up with current plot events) to talk about.
    * The fact that GTA IV had alternate dialog for a lot of those long, start-of-mission drives shows that Rockstar know that people get bored of having to take that long drive after failing/dying. How about just moving the checkpoint to after the drive though? (to be fair, I did notice that the checkpointing was better in the episodes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Taffer View Post
    I also fell away from Red Dead Redemption around the Mexico area, all Rockstar games seem to suffer from this diminishing returns syndrome where they extend what you're doing a tiny bit too long so that they can drag out the main thrust of the plot and resolution, which sucks because the missions just aren't varied enough.
    This is exactly why I think they should have multiple character campaigns in GTA V. The episodes had much tighter story telling simply because they weren't 60* hours long. Having four 15* hour campaigns, whose plots and characters overlap (another cool thing the episodes did) with each other would be brilliant. Shorter plots means you could more convincingly tell the 'morally troubled criminal' story as well as more easily put in a bit of that Deus Ex like flexibility that Thirith mentioned.

    * I'm pulling numbers out my arse here, I can't remember how long the episodes or the main game where.

  2. #77
    Angel Dust: work for Rockstar.

  3. #78
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    The fact that cars are kind of irrelevant and disposable has always sort of bugged me, but they've made it necessary to the whole thing.
    In 3 I could let it go ultimately since it was all about just ever increasing numbers of toys to arse about with or in. But as the games got more detailed it started to make less and less sense. Everything else starts to gain value, uniqueness and personality except vehicles, which are essentially free no matter how rare and expensive they would be in real life.
    I can imagine them in feature meetings saying there's no way we can restrict this core mechanic and it just sets off a cascade of problems for effective policing and better AI etc, I suspect.

    But it would be really interesting if you and others had to spend a lot on a good car, or to work it up into a unique state so that it's irreplaceable and you don't want to scratch it; If stealing a car was hard and only really worked on disposable shitheaps from the wrong end of town or took the kind of Mission Impossible sort of organisation to steal good ones it does in real life (and you can't just drive them around without attracting attention because they are one of the most regulated and controlled things society has ever produced).
    I think it'd be cool. Most would find it hamstrung the game, I suspect.

  4. #79
    Yeah, given the title, souping up cars or customising them is an amazing missed opportunity at this stage in the game (given in San Andreas you could specify your fucking hairstyle). I would like to see more customisation of cars. It seemed like in GTA4 they totally did away with garages and storing cars, which was something that was in all the previous games?

    The only issue that comes with increased value in cars is the handling and dynamics whereby crashes are more common than not, then you start to move to a Mafia-style system for cars and that's a love/hate thing right there.

  5. #80
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Draggy the Dragons house
    SA had mod garages where you could soup up your car (hydraulics, nitrous etc). If you werent using cheats then it was a fair bit of money so you didnt really want to trash your new ride straight away.
    The thing with gta4 is it gave you good cars that spawned after you completed certain missions, I mostly ended up using thoses, an example would be the golden car you get from that crazy russian guy in BOGT.
    You know what I hated in gta4 is whenever you stole a parked car you inevitably had to smash the window in, I would like to see something like Chinatown Wars where you had to hotwire and pick locks, making stealing cars a little more of a hassle.
    I think a multiple character storyline like the 3 chapters of gta4 would work, but I would like to see just 2 diametrically opposed characters, who end up in the same place at the end of the game, so you have a gangster type who gets sucked back into the crimworld for whatever reason, and an honest young cop, making his way in the corrupt police force, slowly losing his moral values. Storyline would intertwine, you could even play the same missions from both perspectives.

  6. #81
    Well, its all well and good, but I'd advise against getting your hopes for this huge gameworld up too far.

    I was pretty excited when I saw the trailer, then I remembered that they can only cram in a single Xbox disc's worth of content. Which means GTA 4-size.

  7. #82
    Knows his stuff
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Not neccessarily. The 360 version of LA Noire came on 2(or was it 3?) DVDs.

  8. #83
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: god dammit dantes
    Oh, you can create huge gameworlds regardless of disc size all right. Just repeat the textures and objects ad infinitum.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by PigLick View Post
    You know what I hated in gta4 is whenever you stole a parked car you inevitably had to smash the window in, I would like to see something like Chinatown Wars where you had to hotwire and pick locks, making stealing cars a little more of a hassle.
    I got in the habit of just shooting out the window if I was in a hurry. It saves you a few precious seconds if you've got fuzz hot on your tail.

  10. #85
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Taffer View Post
    Thanks for repeating me. I didn't say the entire series was stale. I specified a fair whack of the new stuff - I just don't like any of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    A stronger focus on serious storytelling than ever before; nuanced world detail (internet, TV) + character interactions and behaviour (Euphoria engine); Multiplayer; semi-realistic physics (eg for driving); GPS navigation; the aforementioned cover mechanics; an overhauled aiming system; overhauled drive-by controls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Taffer View Post
    Gameplay mechanics for GTA are getting old and the new stuff they've pulled out of the bag thus far (dating, personalisation, friends, hobbies etc) ain't that fun.
    Ummm, no. I didn't mean the fucking god awful social simulator crap. I meant this:-

    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Taffer
    The driving, aiming and physics getting a bit of a do-over isn't innovative, merely a refinement of what's already been around for three games.
    When the the hell did I say that they were innovative?
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Many of the latter examples are entirely iterative, sure, but they still went a long way in improving the overall game experience over the GTA3-verse titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Taffer
    As for "serious storytelling", I personally didn't find Niko's story more engaging or better told than previous GTA games. In fact, I found it to have the opposite effect. The prior games were at least honest about the fact that you were the best of a bad bunch of gangsters in terms of your player character - it is a game series called Grand Theft Auto after all. A series famous for stealing cars, kerbstomping hookers and indiscriminately blasting passers by. Why do I want to play some guy who doesn't want to be bad? That's the whole fucking cornerstone of the series.
    I totally agree with you here. Niko's narrative and character portrayal was totally add odds with the player's actions during gameplay. This is one of the points on which I praised Chinatown Wars:-

    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02
    The story is cliched and unremarkable, but at least there's no schizophrenic tone like there has been with the last several few GTA's. Unlike with Nico, CJ and Victor (reportedly Red Dead Redemption's John Marsden is cut from the cloth. I've yet to play to play that game, so I can't confirm), the characterisation of Huang in the cutscenes isn't at odds with what the player's actions. Huang is just a mobster thug who wants to avenge his father's death and settle the drama-filled power struggle for the triad leadership. He isn't trying to turn straight, leave behind a life of violence/crime/etc.

  11. #86
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Finger paintings of the insane
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    Not neccessarily. The 360 version of LA Noire came on 2(or was it 3?) DVDs.
    It was actually 3!

  12. #87
    Registered: Jun 2006
    Location: canaustralia
    Hang on EVA, are you saying that ragdoll physics was the big addition to the series that GTA IV introduced?

  13. #88
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Haha, god no. I mean how life like the Euphoria middleware makes A.I. behaviour and how they're affected by the world. It's small details like that which is provided by the aforementioned that go a long way in adding to the overall immersion of GTA4's world. Again, utterly iterative but it does make a huge difference.

    It was the best example video that I could find in my quick search. Everything else was mostly just Euphoria tech demo videos.

  14. #89
    Not sure if I'd call it "lifelike", but it definitely enhances the game. Its amusing to see somebody clinging onto your vehicle for dear life, to see Niko bouncing around on the ground while trying to stop moving, or watching pedestrians get bent up over your hood when you hit them.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Dust View Post
    * You've got to whack a guy. Give the target a simple schedule (day/night, work/home etc) and let the player decide when, where and how to take them out. Guns blazing in a restaurant in broad daylight? Wait for him at his house? Ram him off the road? Plant a car bomb? [/SIZE]

    I've been thinking of a Hitman-style game that works in this way, just create a full city with even very basic AI consisting of a weekly work-schedule cycle, and just give the player random targets out of the whole city. But the issue I could never get over is that, as you begin to make the world more complex and realistic, as you give the player more freedom, you are in fact vastly simplyfing the ensuing gameplay.

    Yes I could totally stalk a guy for a week, find his favorite resturant, sneak into it disguised as a waiter one day and put posion in his food. Or I could just drive him over in a car and drive off. Or get a sniper rifle and shoot him from a roof of a building. Or walk down the street and stab him in the eye with scissors.

    Even in real life, killing someone is pathetically easy if you think about it. The issue is getting away with it. And in games like GTA, where you consistently get away with jacking cars, driving people over, carrying unconcealed guns etc. the fear of repricautions of taking the easy way out simply don't exist. And if you were to introduce those, you would then in turn completetely destroy what the series is about.

    And another issues is creating the "getting away with" mechanics. Ya it may be obvious for cases like stabbing someone on the street, but how would you handle the case I first mentioned, with poisoning his lunch? Now you need some kind of way of tracking evidence, witnesses, virtual ai-driven police, etc. etc. etc. If done right this could be a really compelling mechanic, but I think it would be either so complex to be full of bugs/loopholes, or too simple as to be gamey and exploitable (i.e. GTA star system).

  16. #91
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    While I'd love to see a game like that, I agree with you, Yakoob: it'd be almost impossible to implement it in an open world. Has anyone here played the Terminator game that came out in 1990? It sounds like an early version of that sort of thing, but I can't imagine it'd actually work like that:

    You take on the role of Kyle Reese and protect Sarah Connor from the cyborg sent back in time to kill her, or become the Terminator and eliminate Kyle and Sarah. Either way, the player chases his opponent through Los Angeles buying or stealing weapons and equipment while attempting to eliminate his enemy and avoid the police.

    The game takes place within a huge (roughly 10 miles by 6 miles) 3-D rendered area of central Los Angeles. The game area runs roughly from Beverly Drive to Central Ave (lengthwise), and from Mulholland Drive to National Blvd (vertically). A game map is included in the box for reference. Though the buildings and their placement within the world is generic, and highways/overpasses have been removed, the streets and their layout are largely accurate. The game also includes some landmarks, such as Dodger Stadium, Griffith Park, and the Silver Lake Reservoir.

  17. #92
    is Best Pony
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Drowning in my Steam Library
    Midwinter and its sequel also spring to mind here.

  18. #93
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Draggy the Dragons house
    ok so apparently the map for GTA5 has been leaked, see it here.
    Could just be a fake but it does look pretty genuine, very similar to the Los Santos map from SA. If it is genuine I am stoked cos it shows a number of regional towns as well as the main city.

  19. #94
    I'd say its a fake. The whole thing's just copy-pasted onto GTA 4's interface.

    About his other "hitman" game. That would be a fantastic game, probably just not a fantastic GTA game. Its a pity that Rockstar won't license out the worlds they create, as there's some fantastic things that could be done by third parties working with the landscape they made.

  20. #95
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    So, apparently 2K Czech is helping out in the development of GTA5 (and Mafia 3 is unofficially confirmed).

    Not having played any of the Mafia games I have no idea what this means for the quality of GTA5, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

  21. #96

  22. #97
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    Three more screenshots: a bike, an F-35 looking thingy, and a Ferrari. Anyone else think those screenshots were taken on PC? They look pretty crisp, but I'm very not familiar with 360/PS3 graphics.

  23. #98
    Knows his stuff
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    So glad to see bicycles and jetplanes make a comeback. Loved those in GTA:SA.

  24. #99
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    Careening into people at full speed on a bike was worth a few giggles.

    In GTA: San Andreas, not real life.

  25. #100

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