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Thread: Questions for non-english taffers

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: thief.wikia.com

    Questions for non-english taffers

    Hi, everybody!
    Im doing some research for the, guess, the thief wiki.

    This is not exclusive to non-english taffers, if you have an insight to thief in foreign languages, feel free to add. This goes for all thief games.

    * In non english Thief games, do the hammers and mechanists speak an equivilant 'archaic king james bible speak'? "Thee Thou Shalt" etc.

    * Do the pagans still emphasize "s" and use thier own pidgen, ie "woodsie manfool cityhead" and etc?

    * Is anyone here polish? Because someone keeps trying to translate the site to polish. Perhaps it is these people http://thief-forum.ehost.pl/ they have linked to us, somewhere. If it is you, stop but:...

    * If you want to create a foreign language thief wiki, please be our guests, but you will need to create a separate wiki.

    Thanks, everybody!

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    * In non english Thief games, do the hammers and mechanists speak an equivilant 'archaic king james bible speak'? "Thee Thou Shalt" etc.

    * Do the pagans still emphasize "s" and use thier own pidgen, ie "woodsie manfool cityhead" and etc?
    In Russian localization:

    Yes, Hammerites speak an 'archaic bible speak'

    And yes, Pagans use equivalents to "manfool, hammerhead etc.". They don't use an equivalent to their 'bes' verb as in Russian there's no need for auxiliary verb at all.

    There's no made-up word for 'Taffer', it is translaited depending on context: villain, fool, retard etc.

  3. #3
    L'architecte de Rocksbourg
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Location: Narbonne, France
    About french version :

    Hammerites and mechanists don't seem to speak ancient french, but they have a particular way of speaking, using distinguished manners and grammar. We call it "français soutenu", don't know how to translate it. Somehow they speak like nobles, but with a religious vocabulary added. But nothing fancy in fact, not as much as in english versions.

    Same with the pagans, in french they just speak normally. Maybe with a poetric or naive way in the sound of their voice, but it's simple. Not like the "bees" and all. I was shocked hearing the pagans in TDS, never realised they spoke like this before.

    Also, no translation for taffer, they use villain, idiots... Just like russians.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    @German: Hammerites also speak an archaic accent, however this is quite common here because of historical movies etc.. The few Pagan voices for TMA feature a lot of diminutiv words and sort of deranged childish grammar. Constantine and Viktoria are atmospheric, but normal. Mechanists go like Hammerites just with more ridiculous tenets and Karras sounds very charismatic. No official translation for taffer, unfortunately, like what DJ Riff reported.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: Tatry Mountains, Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by ganac View Post
    * In non english Thief games, do the hammers and mechanists speak an equivilant 'archaic king james bible speak'? "Thee Thou Shalt" etc.
    I translated TDP, TMA and TDS for Polish publisher. As for Hammerites' language... I used Jakub Wujek Bible (from 1599) and Polish baroque literature (16th and 17th century) as reference (Latin syntax, noun-adjunct constructions et cetera). Hammerites' speech seems archaic. As for Mechanists... I mixed archaic, Latin syntax and baroque style with modern, scientific dialect (formal style of instruction documents).

    * Do the pagans still emphasize "s" and use thier own pidgen, ie "woodsie manfool cityhead" and etc?
    In Polish, yes. I replaced English "s" with our participles' sufixes ("wszy", "łszy") and used proper neologisms while translating some words ("woodsie", "manfool" etc.).

    * Is anyone here polish? Because someone keeps trying to translate the site to polish. Perhaps it is these people http://thief-forum.ehost.pl/ they have linked to us, somewhere. If it is you, stop but
    I am Polish Thief Forum member and have no idea what you're talking about.

    And I used Polish translation of the word "taffer". It's neologism "łacher", a compilation of "łach" (clout), "łachudra" (scoudrel, scamp, rogue) and sufix "er" (used in lowlifes' dialect and/or to indicate a person who is an expert in something).

    If you want more details, ganac, feel free to ask.
    Last edited by bukary; 16th May 2009 at 19:23.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    Thanks for the response so far! It has been very helpful.

    As for the polish site, im not sure; it's just one of the widgets are links to the thief wikia, and one of them is from that polish fansite, but it does not point to a specific thread. It is just that these ips here (http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log/block) have been translating some words to polish. We think it just might be a Bot.

    And thanks for the remarks abou taffer. Completely forgot about it.
    Last edited by ganac; 16th May 2009 at 20:21.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: on a mission to civilize
    I'm surprised jtr didn't jump right in with the info--the guy is a walking encyclopedia of Thief.

    You know, I'd love to get ahold of the sound/schema folders from the non-english versions just to hear what they are like.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    Whadya mean? He is on the thief wiki. He's ehcmier. He's... taking a break.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: In the Present Perfect
    Ain't no Hungarian Thief, with voiceovers I mean, only with "subtitles", but I can tell you that they really screw. Since Hungarian has no archaic version (given that the language changed very little in the past thousand years), the Hammers have lost 50% of their charm - the attempts to somehow imititate the "Bible language" as you call it, suck't.
    As for "taffer", they used the extremely idiotic word "bumburnyák" which a kind of infantile term of endearment. It's rather like "silly" in its, well, not the original meaning, but somewhere between the original and the modern.
    Kind of like "poor sod", in fact.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: Tatry Mountains, Poland
    BTW, there's no dubbing in Polish version either. Only subtitles. We just couldn't get rid of Stephen Russell.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: Slovakia - Zemplín region
    The Czech language version has no voice dubbing and features all the usual in-game and menu text translations and the like... There's no Slovak translation, but since Czech is understood by practically every Slovak, there's no real need for it. Besides, I only play the English language originals. As far as the translation of the subtitles in TDS goes, it's nearly a masterpiece - the author did a terrific job. TDP and TMA have well translated texts too, but their minor flaw is a lack of subtitles, that would enable a non-English speaker to understand the characters' speech.

    Taffer is translated according to context as swear words of varying intensity : Lotor, gauner, hajzel, darebák, zlodej, etc.

    Hammerite and Mechanist language is interspersed with both usual and more rare archaic words. Also, changing words like kdysi ("once / long ago") to a shortened kdys' (with an apostroph) is long recognised as a mainly poetic form in both Czech and Slovak, with the goal of mimicking medieval, early modern or folk vocabulary and grammar. It's been used by various older poets in both nations since the 19.-th century and pretty much represents an equivalent to the "Shakespeare speak" used in the English version.

    The Pagans speak in childish diminutives and infinitive - no big surprise here.

    The Keepers speak normal everyday Czech, but with a predominantly serious tone and lots of spohisticated and philosophy-related terms.

    If I forgot anything, just ask any of the Czech taffers on TTLG.


    As far as I go, I developed some of my own personal translations in Slovak, which I use when referring informally to things in the game. I usualy refer to the locations, parts of the City and some of the buildings with the Slovak version of their name (e. g. Stonemarket - Kamenný trh, Old Quarter - Stará štvrť, The Haunted Cathedral - Zakliata/Prekliata katedrála), or using a more hybrid version (e. g. Shalebridgeská Kolíska (Shalebridge Cradle), it sounds better than "Ílovomostská Kolíska" ).

    I also tend to translate some of the character and faction names and terms : The Pagans are Pohania, the Hammerites are Kladivári, and the Keepers are either Udržiavatelia (practically a direct equivalent) or Strážcovia (which is more like "Watchers, Guardsmen"). The same goes for fantasy races and beings : Craymen - Račí ľudia ("Cray people"), The Undead - Nemŕtvi (a nice literal word-for-word equivalent), Hammer Haunts - Kladivárski kostlivci ("Hammerite (living) skeletons / grim reapers"). I even found a suitable name for the Trickster - Kaukliar (originally "juggler, jester, acrobat", but also an archaic swear word in the sense of "evildoer, schemer, mischievous person" or simply, "trickster").
    Last edited by Petike the Taffer; 19th May 2009 at 08:41. Reason: minor edits

  12. #12

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I'm on the internet!!

    Anyway, just stumbled over this sentence: "[...] the Pagans shun technology, living in harmony with the natural world, as well as the supernatural creatures that are the minions of the Woodsie Lord." Shouldn't there be something like "prefer" before "living in harmony..."?

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: In the Present Perfect
    Gosh, I'm being referenced!

    Shit, I just dug up some stuff about the Pagans' speech in Hungarian and, gods, it's even worse than the English one in DS. They fucking put every damn thing into the sodding infinitive! In Hungarian this implies such a level of idiocity... Gods.

    Actually, the great problem with translating to Hungarian is that we they (like, 70% of the population) don't speak English or any forn language at all, so they don't expect a translation, but a hungarianisation. And what with our language being wholly separate, there are a number of things that you can't translate so that it gives back the meaning and is fitting/snappy at the same time. (Translating Pratchett, for instance, is a real nightmare)
    Apparently, the guys who "hungarianised" Thief went for the word-to-word translation a) without knowing Hungarian b) without knowing English. The result is pathetic.

    IF ANY OF THE "TRANSLATORS" READS THIS THEY CAN SCREW THEMSELVES AND DESERVE TO ROT IN CRAGSCLEFT UNTIL THEY DIE.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    But that's rather a matter of providing a good translation and not of adapting the very content of Thief to Hungarian circumstances, is it?

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: In the Present Perfect
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    But that's rather a matter of providing a good translation and not of adapting the very content of Thief to Hungarian circumstances, is it?
    Aye. Under hungarianisation I mean that the names (of persons, orders, geographcial, etc.) are to be translated into Hungarian, the jokes re-rendered in a way to make sense in our lingo, and so forth. The latter often involves complete rewriting, since your common Hungarian (but, come to that, not just Hungarians) is extremely ignorant of the world. Bah.

    An example: the translation of 'Keepers' is 'Őrzők', which might mean guardians, protectors, watchers, watchmen, guards, keepers, security officers, wardens, holders and so forth. While I appreciate the many-hued connotation of the word, and indeed that's why I love Hungarian, this translation doesn't give back the original at all. Not to say that it sounds rather silly.
    'Hammerites' became 'Kalapácsosok' which literally means 'hammery', with the same general feeling of it. I think there's no need to explain further.
    'Pagans', again, got the word-to-word translation of 'Pogány', which was a very bad choice of wording in my opinion, since 'pogány' in Hungarian has a very romantic feeling and connotation (coming from our history, long story), that, though might fit the general picture of Pagans as presented in DS, not at all the original, un-dumbed-down one.
    Last edited by Herr_Garrett; 21st May 2009 at 12:28.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I that aspect we were quite lucky with the German content provided in TDP/TMA. They did not translate names and surnames (except for Constantine and Viktoria who were at least spoken like their German counterparts) but usually city quarters and the like. In TDS they had a different studio which translated a few terms differently (acolyte, Stonemarket) than in the first chapters and I'm especially a fan of doing this job completely (since foreign language words are always some kind of immersion breaker), but alas... It's my greatest fear for Thief IV that they not only won't translate the very title of the game (the German community makes things worse by primarily using the term Thief because it's shorter) but again leave out any German synchronisation.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: In the Present Perfect
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    (the German community makes things worse by primarily using the term Thief because it's shorter)
    What, shorter than Dieb?

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    Shorter than Der Meisterdieb.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    ...or Dark Project/DP. Apparently. Withdrawal from native language.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    Shouldn't there be something like "prefer" before "living in harmony..."?
    No, their preferences are quite clear. 'Prefer' insinuates that there is some diversity amungst pagan opinions, that suggests that some pagans consider technology ok.

    I hope that made no scense.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Georgia
    I'm glad someone asked about this. Seeing how things are transliterated gives a little insight into how each group was meant to be presented. Cheers to everyone who answered!

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Wow, it's pretty amazing that foreign language versions of Thief were translated to such a high standard, so the 'feel' of the language used in game was preserved.

    One thing I would like to know though, is Garrett, called Garrett in non-english versions though? What about other characters names?

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    One thing I would like to know though, is Garrett, called Garrett in non-english versions though? What about other characters names?
    Garret is called "Garret" in Russian. It's just a spelling issue, as there's no difference between closed and open syllable in Russian, so no need for double 't' at end. There are some "speaking" names that were translated: Brother Vault, Shaman Woodbine etc. Other names are just the same.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Funnily, while "Stonemarket" remained in English in TDS although there had been a German translation for TDP, most Pagan names (Larkspur etc.) were English in TMA but had German translations in TDS. Many names remain in English (usually those which are in fact English and cannot be transformed like i.e. Karras, who is spoken in a German way).
    Quote Originally Posted by ganac
    No, their preferences are quite clear. 'Prefer' insinuates that there is some diversity amungst pagan opinions, that suggests that some pagans consider technology ok.
    Well, I read it like that (grammatically, of course the context is clear):
    Quote Originally Posted by the Wiki
    [...] the Pagans shun technology, [and] living in harmony with the natural world, as well as the supernatural creatures that are the minions of the Woodsie Lord.
    Instead of something like:
    Quote Originally Posted by the Wiki
    [...] the Pagans shun technology, [while] living in harmony with the natural world, as well as the supernatural creatures that are the minions of the Woodsie Lord.

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