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Thread: Upcoming T2 FM: The Sun Within and The Sun Without

  1. #1

    Upcoming T2 FM: The Sun Within and The Sun Without

    Release is really close now and here's a little preview (brightness and contrast have been adjusted for all screenshots):




    This mission was meant as a showcase for my ropecrates. The other 90% is just a bonus

    A ropecrate can be used as a portable rope arrow target, which means that you can throw it up on a ledge/balcony/beam and then shoot a rope arrow into it and climb up. It might take some practice to place a ropecrate especially in spots where there is no wall behind. The first screenshot shows an easy spot and the third shows a spot which is a little harder. I find beams to be the hardest.

    Ropecrates behave a lot like ordinary crates (both when thrown and when still), except of course that arrows stick in it. There are some restrictions:
    • If a ropecrate starts falling, all arrows stuck in it will get unstuck and fall to the ground (from where you can pick them up).
    • A ropecrate with arrows stuck in it is not frobbable nor pushable (otherwise it would be much too easy to accidentally make arrows fall to the ground - including that rope to which you were once so attached). A ropecrate with arrows stuck in it will only start to move if you remove what's underneath it.
    • If you shoot an arrow at a moving ropecrate, the arrow will fall to the ground almost immediately.
    • When you climb up on a rope attached to a ropecrate, the ropecrate is not affected by the player's weight.


    I want to end this little teaser by thanking my beta-testers. With their feedback this mission went from okay to a lot better.

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Registered: Jul 2008
    You're just being modest. This mission is great!

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Indeed! I had real fun testing this one... there is so much more in this mission than you would first think.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    If that rope + crate is how it looks, then it certainly does break a ridiculous amount of physics, logic and basic common sense about such matters. Well, unless the crate is heavy enough to actually hold out heavy little piece of meat called Garrett. But then, he shouln't be able to throw it up there, though I thought that was the main idea of that feature.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    If that rope + crate is how it looks, then it certainly does break a ridiculous amount of physics, logic and basic common sense about such matters. Well, unless the crate is heavy enough to actually hold out heavy little piece of meat called Garrett. But then, he shouln't be able to throw it up there, though I thought that was the main idea of that feature.
    If you are looking for hardline realism in a thief game you really need to re-evaluate your viewpoint on gaming

    I for one think this mission will be brilliant and I'm really looking forward to trying out the rope crate ability. The bubble effect in one of those screens also looks very cool.

    Thanks for the preview!

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Well, it does kind of seem to have gravity and the intentions to reproduce Earth physics. Although if there's some kind of roxorz explanation and the crates are magic or garrett's weight suddenly becomes nullified by some poiton or something (then again, he shouldn't really need rope arrows & stuff), I might just live with it. Otherwise, this out of the blue makes me kind of annoyed. It's technologically cool, but it's also a paradox, without that great explanation.

  7. #7
    BANNED
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Maw Of Chaos
    Fantastic! I can hardly wait. Thank you.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    Well, it does kind of seem to have gravity and the intentions to reproduce Earth physics. Although if there's some kind of roxorz explanation and the crates are magic or garrett's weight suddenly becomes nullified by some poiton or something (then again, he shouldn't really need rope arrows & stuff), I might just live with it. Otherwise, this out of the blue makes me kind of annoyed. It's technologically cool, but it's also a paradox, without that great explanation.
    Why do you have any right to be annoyed with another persons vision for something cool they want to try out in dromed and possibly further the ideas of the community? I can see not enjoying it once you play it - your opinion is your opinion. But acting like an author should have asked you permission before adding a new effect to their mission is something else.

    Just the fact that you can become "annoyed" that an authors "idea out of the blue" for their own mission (their own baby, so to speak) is confusing in and of itself. Did you also get 'annoyed' with Sterlino's incredible technical work in his missions as well? How about being annoyed with Rose Cottage or Mission X? They all brought something new to the table and to the community. You confuse me with this negativity. Apparently for every new effect you expect a deep backstory?

    I can only imagine the fun gameplay that could come out of using ropecrates in missions.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    It's an emotion. Being annoyed. Humans have those things called emotions. It's that simple. I'm merely disagreeing with authors idea. I won't try to bloody destroy it or convery anyone to my side, just stating my opinion and emotions about it.

    Also, I would actually enjoy the mission, if there would be an explanation for it. Maybe I'm just being too rational atm., but I still stand be the general idea.
    I thoroughly enjoyed Sterlino's Flying Age and Mission X. They didn't make fun of common sense at least so visibly. :P

    Well, I am negative, but someone's gotta have a little bit of that too, at least at such a matter. Ok, my powers of mightiness and greatness are fading, I shall [probably not] continue this later.
    Last edited by Thor; 18th Dec 2009 at 18:48.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    Well, it does kind of seem to have gravity and the intentions to reproduce Earth physics. Although if there's some kind of roxorz explanation and the crates are magic or garrett's weight suddenly becomes nullified by some poiton or something (then again, he shouldn't really need rope arrows & stuff), I might just live with it. Otherwise, this out of the blue makes me kind of annoyed. It's technologically cool, but it's also a paradox, without that great explanation.
    I'm cool with that and I agree with you that it's not very realistic in parts, but I had fun creating it and also had a lot of fun playing around with it in-game, so maybe others will too. I could say that it's a magic crate, but I won't, because it's not.

    I can spare you the download and say that the rest of this mission isn't exactly taking place in true Newtonian space either...

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    I'll still check this mission out just for the technological paradox and newiness of it all. It's too bad you won't offer any explanation at all, cause that would make it all just terrific. Now it's probably brilliant, but al so not brilliant. Like a +/- charge.

    Oh well, guess I'm now really going to sleep. Power to concentrate and writing down my thoughts in time before they're interrupted by a stronger thought are getting the best of me.

    Thor, over and out

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2009
    Location: Riverside,CA USA

    NOW,

    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    I'll still check this mission out just for the technological paradox and newiness of it all. It's too bad you won't offer any explanation at all, cause that would make it all just terrific. Now it's probably brilliant, but al so not brilliant. Like a +/- charge.

    Oh well, guess I'm now really going to sleep. Power to concentrate and writing down my thoughts in time before they're interrupted by a stronger thought are getting the best of me.

    Thor, over and out
    Who's the one that's not making much sense?

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: Sweden
    Like speed and slowfall pots, wine, gas and rope arrows, tree beasts, undead, exploding frogs, guards who can't swim, climb or crawl isn't breaking a ridiculous amount of physics, logic and basic common sense?

    New stuff like this inspires others to take it further. It's a tech demo with a mission thrown in. It's free and probably very fun.

    God Jul

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2009
    Location: Riverside,CA USA

    Well,

    Hertzman, some peeps are just anal retentive when it comes to Thief!

    Like they can accept the illogic put forward in the OMs, but someone come up with any new and fresh illogic - god forbid!

    Thankfully that kind of assininity never prevented such gems as Sterl's flying craft, COSaS communication mask,
    ice arrows, and so much other new and uber cool stuff from being made and enjoyed by all and sundry!

  15. #15
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia
    Wow! Looks very interesting! Thanks for the preview, qolelis

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    the screens look great even aside from the ropecrate gimmick, which I find intriguing.

    Thor02 - I know where you're coming from. ever watched an action movie and thought "but it doesn't work that way!"? for now, let's just pretend the crate weighs 200 pounds and that there's a Strength potion involved somehow

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Great. Now I can't get back in
    I suppose you could have done the usual & put in lots of timber beams, ledges, etc, qolelis - but it sounds like you're having fun with what you took the time & effort to create for us all. Looks like a cool idea & one which will give the player more ways of exploring / approaching situations (& I'm all for that).

    Those screens look very interesting - also particularly like the "bubble rain"

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMunkeepants View Post
    the screens look great even aside from the ropecrate gimmick, which I find intriguing.

    Thor02 - I know where you're coming from. ever watched an action movie and thought "but it doesn't work that way!"? for now, let's just pretend the crate weighs 200 pounds and that there's a Strength potion involved somehow
    Right, strengh potion would be better then zero weight potion. I still don't really like, that the author doesn't even want to hint an explanation, no matter how little effort it takes compared to the rest of the FM.


    So, what was so illogical about MX and other technical wonders, GS?

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2009
    Location: Riverside,CA USA

    Oh gimme a break here.

    Flying machines, at the period in time that Thief is placed in? Even DaVinci never actually made more than just a model of one! But so what, Sterl's were great fun!

    And communication masks, well, ok, Karras did send radio signals to his "servants", but supposedly that was just an electronic signal. And even that was far fetched for a barely emerging steam culture, after all, it was wireless! And actual voice transmission is even more problematical!
    But again, so what? I play for fun, if I want realism, then hell, RL is always there to smack me upside the head with more than enough!

    So, if I can accept that say, the Mechanists, could make a few ginormous leaps in tech,(undersea bases and submarines fer chrissakes!), then I can also accept that just MAYBE they could somehow make a quantum leap to space flight!

    That's the thing about imagination, once you can suspend disbelief, there are no limits any longer! And if an author does'nt want to explain a new creation that belies RL physics or even sense, then what the hell, I'd say he/she is just leaving that explanation open to whoever cares to put their own slant on it.

    My slant on a "rope crate" is that it works just like Garrett does, ie: with very little actual friction, Garrett can stick to any slant that's not too steep, so once the rope crate is thrown up on a ledge for example, it stays put unless actually picked straight up!

    Besides, any tension that is put on a rope in such a case, actually pulls DOWNARDS, and actually increases stability of where it's lodged into as long as there is little too no OUTWARDS tension on the rope!
    (but that IS tricky, the higher the rope arrow is placed on the crate itself, the more outwards tension is applied when trying to climb it!)
    Last edited by Garrett's Shadow; 19th Dec 2009 at 09:41.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    *facepalm... imagine a facepalm image right here*

    You're mixing 2 entirely different things here. Inventions is one thing, common sense of simple physics, which this game is using, is another thing...

    Anyway, one I'll check it out, if I will check it out, I'll just go ahead and make the explanation myself. I'm tired of discussing the same thing over an over again.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2009
    Location: Riverside,CA USA

    The illogic

    is that the inventions are even plausible for the time period in which Thief is placed!
    (for all you realism retentives out there!)

    So, yes, you should hide your face in your palm!

    Besides, I was just answering your direct query of what's illogical about "MX and other technical wonders"!
    Last edited by Garrett's Shadow; 19th Dec 2009 at 06:55.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    This thread is derailing too much. There will be plenty of discussion possible when you've played the mission and saw the ropecrate in action. So please, stop talking about things that are possible in the Thief world (you can make a new thread if you want) and just be happy a new mission will come out soon.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    obviously you don't get, that Thief is NOT in Earth's timeline, at least for all we know, therefore there's no "inventions are even plausible for the time period in which Thief is placed"...

    The facepalm I roleplayed was a signal, that it is pretty damn impossible to reason with you...

    Nice of you to defend the thread, spud, but I won't be ordered around by you. You're not even the author of the thread.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Sedlec Ossuary
    Wow !!! The screens look great. I'm looking forward to it.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2009
    Location: Riverside,CA USA

    Who the hell is ordering you around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    obviously you don't get, that Thief is NOT in Earth's timeline, at least for all we know, therefore there's no "inventions are even plausible for the time period in which Thief is placed"...

    The facepalm I roleplayed was a signal, that it is pretty damn impossible to reason with you...

    Nice of you to defend the thread, spud, but I won't be ordered around by you. You're not even the author of the thread.
    I sure aint!

    So if it's not Earth's time line, who's to say it's not an Earth in a plane of existence in which the laws of physics are slighty different than ours? That's what I am saying about imagination, anything is poss!

    And it's more than poss to reason with me, when the other person at least looks at what I am saying and does'nt immediately start in with the attitude as if I am a moron who does'nt understand anything about anything, that just amps up my stubborness!

    And falling back on the picayune use of that "facepalm" bs is a perfect example! Not only is it petty, but it's also not very original. (as you well know since you even mentioned using a "facepalm image", why not go the full route and use the very same one of Picard and Riker? Least then you'd be consistant!)

    (and don't call me spud, Potato guy may sue me for copyright infringement!)

    Qolelis, sorry bout all this, I for one am gonna enjoy this one you made!
    Last edited by Garrett's Shadow; 19th Dec 2009 at 09:03.

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