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Thread: Dragon's Lair NES Remake Demo Release

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Dragon's Lair NES Remake Demo Release

    Hey all

    I mentioned this over in the "What Are You Making" thread but thought I'd make a proper thread for it.

    As mentioned:




    Ok TTLG peoples the time has FINALLY come for a demo release of my remake of the NES game "Dragonslair".

    You can grab the demo here:
    http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ah4ynoache7dnl4

    Note that I'll be bundling the level editor with it at a later point. Feel free to comment about anything you like/dislike/hate/love etc. Any and all feedback are appreciated. Or feel free to send me a PM if you prefer, or you can reach me directly on my email address of: hockland@hotmail.com.

    Oh and also note that whilst gamepads/joysticks work with the game, be sure to turn off "analog" and use the arrow buttons for movement as using analog with the game is not working properly at this stage.

    If the menu runs crazy when you run the game thats because you have analog switched on.

    In either case enjoy .
    Last edited by icemann; 14th Nov 2012 at 07:26.

  2. #2
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Will give more feedback when I've had a play with it but I'm already cursing those spiked logs that come down from the ceiling. Why do they instantly kill you if you simply brush against them sideways?

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    That was in keeping the gameplay similar to that of the original. That said, in the original practically everything killed you in one hit. If your close enough for your face (as in the player sprite) to be touching the inside of the spikes, that will cause a insta-death. One of only 2 ways that you can die in 1 shot from something in my remake of it.

  4. #4
    Knows his stuff
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Cool! I shall be giving this a try later. I'm only familiar with this game because of Angry Video Game Nerd's fuming about it's insane difficulty. But I understand from your posts in the other thread that you've toned down the difficulty to actually make it a playable. Looking forward to trying it out!

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    AVGN was my inspiration for the remake . I was sitting and watching the episode where he played it, which then gave me the idea of turning something crap into something awesome. And the rest is history.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    All of this about difficulty and one-hit kills makes it sound a bit like an 8-bit demake (is that the word people use?) of Demon's Souls... Will have to check this out, once my computer's working again!

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Finger paintings of the insane
    sweet, bro! I still wish that I could have figured out how to get Fishing Derby working. I will deffo be giving this a try next week when I finally get some free time.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by gunsmoke View Post
    sweet, bro! I still wish that I could have figured out how to get Fishing Derby working. I will deffo be giving this a try next week when I finally get some free time.
    Well I figured out the cause of all the dll issues (I think) requiring the need for the VC Redistributable files whilst I was putting this remake together. I was VERY determined to not have history repeat itself on me. So if you'd like to have a go of it, it should in theory be a simple matter (famous last words ) to fix. I'll apply the same solution I did for this remake and see if it results in the same. If it does, I'll upload a new version of it with the changes in there.

  9. #9
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: KC, KS, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Ok TTLG peoples the time has FINALLY come for a demo release of my remake of the NES game "Dragonslair".
    You do know it's called "Dragon's Lair", not "Dragonslair", right?

    Also... WHY? A port of a terrible port of a game that barely had any gameplay to begin with?

  10. #10
    Knows his stuff
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Played it. Only two levels?

    The precision jumping isn't very fun, you need to have almost walked off the edge in many places before you hit the jump button to make it. And I don't like it when enemies spawn right where I'm currently standing, makes it impossible to defend yourself. Also I wouldn't mind if you bastardised the original a bit and added in gameplay elements of your own. How about a button that raises your shield so you can protect from projectile attacks? A sprint-button would be nice too!

    That said, it certainly is playable. Which I guess is a big step up from the original. So good job!

  11. #11
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: Tokyo desu
    I like that it generally all works as a game; not all homebrew games get that far. It looks the part; that's good. And it has the things I want to see in levels like this. So it has all the infrastructure there.

    The controls are wonky. That's the biggest issue IMO. It's not so much a delay, but I don't get the feeling he starts moving on a dime when I push move, and stops on a dime when I stop, so I can actually tend to run into things (edit: or like Henke, off platforms) just trying to handle the controls. And he doesn't jump or shoot on a dime when I push those things. The jump animation itself is a tad slow and you're kind of weaving him around mid-jump which is a bit wonky... I mean it's good you can move him mid-jump; it just doesn't feel very crisp, maybe because it's a slow jump (?), needs a little more energy maybe, and it's short on animation (he's like rising up still in a half-standing-pose. Getting him to really crouch down and leap up, and crouch a bit while he's jumping, just some more frames packed in there would make it feel better. Actually the sluggish feel of movement too may partly be an animation thing; could use a few frames of him starting movement & stopping). The throwing sword I think should be sped up a bit too, and maybe things get thrown back a bit when hit so the sword looks like it has some inertia. The feel I remember from NES-era games (the good ones) are really crisp controls with the sprite, so he moves & jumps & shoots on a dime and the animations are quick, fluid & crisp. I mean it's a platform game, so crisp control of running & jumping is your bread & butter.

    Edit: I'm starting to think that most of the issue period, aside from things going a bit slow, is more & more fluid animation to get the feeling of inertia and momentum and fluidity with the movement and jumping. That feeling is how one tends to gauge when to stop and when to jump. Not such a big addition but would add a lot of value.
    Last edited by demagogue; 8th Feb 2012 at 12:47.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    You do know it's called "Dragon's Lair", not "Dragonslair", right?

    Also... WHY? A port of a terrible port of a game that barely had any gameplay to begin with?
    Yes I do. I keep forgetting to type it the correct way, my bad. It's not so much of a port, as a remake with my attempts to fix alot of what was wrong in the original game.

    gunsmoke: Attempted the same solution for the dll issues that I did for this one and no luck so might be a while to fix the dll issues for Fishing Time. Though I intend to keep at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    Played it. Only two levels?

    The precision jumping isn't very fun, you need to have almost walked off the edge in many places before you hit the jump button to make it. And I don't like it when enemies spawn right where I'm currently standing, makes it impossible to defend yourself. Also I wouldn't mind if you bastardised the original a bit and added in gameplay elements of your own. How about a button that raises your shield so you can protect from projectile attacks? A sprint-button would be nice too!

    That said, it certainly is playable. Which I guess is a big step up from the original. So good job!
    I know it's not much being 2 levels, hence being a demo. I spent the majority of my time converting over all the art in photoshop + getting the physics and enemies working right. The 2nd level I whipped up in a night. Doesn't take long at all to do in the editor. People are welcome to make as many levels as they like once I have the editor out there.

    I had been thinking about adding in entirely new gameplay elements (ie a double jump ability once you acquire a set of boots + the shield idea had occurred to me also). The enemy spawns are easy to fix. Sprint ability I will think on. The precision jumps are simple to fix also.

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    The controls are wonky. That's the biggest issue IMO. It's not so much a delay, but I don't get the feeling he starts moving on a dime when I push move, and stops on a dime when I stop, so I can actually tend to run into things (edit: or like Henke, off platforms) just trying to handle the controls. And he doesn't jump or shoot on a dime when I push those things. The jump animation itself is a tad slow and you're kind of weaving him around mid-jump which is a bit wonky... I mean it's good you can move him mid-jump; it just doesn't feel very crisp, maybe because it's a slow jump (?), needs a little more energy maybe, and it's short on animation (he's like rising up still in a half-standing-pose. Getting him to really crouch down and leap up, and crouch a bit while he's jumping, just some more frames packed in there would make it feel better. Actually the sluggish feel of movement too may partly be an animation thing; could use a few frames of him starting movement & stopping). The throwing sword I think should be sped up a bit too, and maybe things get thrown back a bit when hit so the sword looks like it has some inertia. The feel I remember from NES-era games (the good ones) are really crisp controls with the sprite, so he moves & jumps & shoots on a dime and the animations are quick, fluid & crisp. I mean it's a platform game, so crisp control of running & jumping is your bread & butter.

    Edit: I'm starting to think that most of the issue period, aside from things going a bit slow, is more & more fluid animation to get the feeling of inertia and momentum and fluidity with the movement and jumping. That feeling is how one tends to gauge when to stop and when to jump. Not such a big addition but would add a lot of value.
    Hmm. Well for the movement frames I got all the frames from the original game. The original game does a 6 frame movement loop when moving in the same direction. For crouched movement I did it alittle differently to the original (in the NES version when you crouched you would crawl on the ground in a sense, where as in mine I went for your more traditional style crouch) so those are my sprites in there, and I'll admit that there's about half the amount of sprites for that.

    The slow jump falling was a direct copying of what the original game did. Early in development I had much quicker falls in. Easy enough to add back in. I'll just need to edit the 2nd level a little. I get what you mean on the jumping/in flight animation. You mean something along the lines of how Prince of Persia did it in a sense. Once again on that I was merely doing what the original did.

    Your not the first to comment on the slowness of dagger throwing, so I'll be sure to speed that up in the next version. Another quick to fix issue.

    For alot of the development I was running the original game on an emulator and seeing how it did things, then coded it in. Jumping in the original game is even slower. Slower in that if you wanted to jump you would first bend down, then leap. All the while not being able to shoot/throw daggers at enemies until you were in flight.

    I appreciate all the feedback so far. All of this will go into later changes/fixes/etc.
    Last edited by icemann; 8th Feb 2012 at 14:04.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Finger paintings of the insane
    Hey, thanks for attempting (once again) to get Fishing Time up and running. I appreciate the efforts, and if it someday magically comes together, let me (us) know!. Thanks again!

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Will do certainly if and when I can get it fixed. I've done some testing and located the exact source of the issues. Fixing that issue will be alittle tricky. But I'll keep at it.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Finger paintings of the insane
    +1 to icemann

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Version 0.36 of the demo was released today, which includes the following:

    * Improved jumping (overall faster, direction of jump is now fixed and now if you attempt to switch direction mid-flight it will cancel movement in the direction your jumping in and have you go straight down which allows for precision jumps).
    * Faster shooting
    * Contact with the wooden spikes now does not insta-kill anymore, unless you are directly underneath them. Simply trying to walk into them now just results in you being pushed back.
    * Improved level design for the 2nd level.

    Download Link:
    http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ah4ynoache7dnl4

    If reports are fine after this release, I'll bundle the level editor with the download and get to work on the rest of the game. Hope you enjoy the new version.
    Last edited by icemann; 21st Nov 2012 at 05:42.

  17. #17
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Wow - what a difference. I'm sure that took an awful lot of time to tweak the feel of the game for little visible effect but it feels so much more natural to jump, throw daggers and navigate the levels - congratulations.

    If you want to take it further I'd be tempted to get the introduction and get something that follows on from the second level.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Already on it .



    (screenshot taken in the level editor)

    And for a comparison shot taken from the original NES game:



    I've got the tile dimensions of the NES original worked out now which has resulted in much better tile graphics this time round. Over the last 2 days I've converted over 3/4 of the third level tile graphics (in the original game the first level was the draw bridge dragon battle, 2nd being the trip past the wooden spikes and door ghosts, then the third being a mine-like level starting with an elevator ride where if you pick the wrong exit you could end up back at the 1st or 2nd level).

    The tricky parts to development of the level will be moving platforms and gravity wells which push the player upwards. Was quite tricky getting through the NES version just to take the screenshots of it + the new enemies which are present in it.
    Last edited by icemann; 28th Oct 2012 at 22:05.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Today demo 3 goes live







    Which includes:

    * Level 3 of the original converted over (as well as the enemies and new gameplay elements introduced).
    * New level of my own
    * Original game music added in. The tracks I developed play only on the completely new levels.
    * Options settings saved on exit and reloaded on start-up.

    You can download the latest version here (version 0.37):
    http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ah4ynoache7dnl4
    Last edited by icemann; 21st Nov 2012 at 05:42.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Thank you. Work will be beginning on demo 4 soon, so be expecting updates in the future once I get to work on it.

  21. #21
    Knows his stuff
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    I'm walking on sunshiiiiine.

    Just beat it, with 1 life to spare!

    Defenitely feels a bit tighter than the first version. Not bad!

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Version 0.50 goes public as of today and includes level 3 of the original converted over (level 6 in mine) + an extra one, new enemies, boss battles, music, improved shooting. And much much more. Expect a much higher difficulty level in the new levels. Enjoy:





    Download Link:
    http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ah4ynoache7dnl4
    Last edited by icemann; 13th Nov 2012 at 12:05.

  23. #23
    Knows his stuff
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Really man. Those guys in the trams who throw rocks at you are just no fun to fight at all. Gave up at that point. Pretty sure I've said this before but don't be afraid to bastardize this game by taking out the terrible bits.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Too fast with the rocks? Oh and don't worry I've been bastardizing it all over the place . It's in the getting people to try out each new version that really helps with the fine tuning.

    [edit]
    Slowed down the Red Troll bosses attack speed. Hope that helps. Edited above post with altered version.
    Last edited by icemann; 13th Nov 2012 at 11:21.

  25. #25
    Knows his stuff
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    More that it's really hard to hit them(needing to throw the knife during the exact right moment in the jump) and they have a huge amount of hitpoints. That combined with the fact that you can only really (AFAIK) throw one knife into them during their attack-sequence without getting hit yourself(right at the start, and then duck while they attack), means that killing even one of those guys takes looooong as hell.
    Last edited by henke; 13th Nov 2012 at 12:32.

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