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Thread: Kingdom Come - Deliverance

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Looking spiffy, I backed this way back when so I'm looking forward to it. The game's supposed to have gone into feature-lock recently, so all the time left till February's on polish. I'm considering it might be time to put a new rig together next year, though I doubt it'll be in time for this, so will see... My trusty ol' tower chomped through The Witcher 3, but with DX4 max settings are no longer an option.

    One thing I don't like about KC:D is what Vavra announced about the save system, saving too often will start imposing penalty stats contextualised in the form of... drinking palinka. Creative as it is, I'm not fond of devs trying to hammer the save mechanic into a game's narrative flow, and I downright hate it when they try to restrict its use. The "seamless checkpoints" in Bioshock Infinite did nothing but torpedo the plot tension, and Fallout 4's compulsive sleeping was obtuse frustration tacked onto the more interesting aspects of Survival Mode. I don't care about "cheevos", let me save scum if I choose to and just give the hardcore crowd a toggle.

  2. #77
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    This is looking really impressive.



  3. #78
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    A good mix of actual gameplay and cutscenes. Here's a well balanced trailer.

  4. #79
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Mack thinks that the game is misunderstood by many reviewers. He says that it delivers a very rewarding RPG experience with compelling story and characters.


  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2008
    I'm getting stuck into it, and the writing is great for a game. The characters feel believable and you can tell that the voice actors felt like they had something to work with, which turns out to be vital because holy fuck - if you thought Metal Gear Solid 5 had a long winded introduction.

    I haven't had any egregious bugs yet, but it wouldn't hurt to wait until the devs patch in saving on exit before giving it a shot.

  6. #81
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Neb, what language have you set your audio to?
    I just ask, 'cos the English language voice acting is pretty cringe-worthy so far for me.
    And I'm struggling to like it, as it keeps getting in the way. I've just got to the stage where I'm trying to get out of the second castle (guessing I'm still in the intro), and it keeps putting barriers in the way of fun.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2008
    English, but it sounds fine to me. I'm spending less time than other games pretending characters are acting as they should to get engrossed.

  8. #83
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2017
    This game has some interesting bugs.


  9. #84
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by Malf View Post
    Neb, what language have you set your audio to?
    I just ask, 'cos the English language voice acting is pretty cringe-worthy so far for me.
    And I'm struggling to like it, as it keeps getting in the way. I've just got to the stage where I'm trying to get out of the second castle (guessing I'm still in the intro), and it keeps putting barriers in the way of fun.
    I dunno about that, it sounds like a mix of accents that ranges from decent to phoned in, but there's nothing to cringe at so far? The main bloke's overly earnest but it's almost endearing.

    As for the actual game, it's pretty much an RPG by way of ArmA in some ways, so I don't think fun or streamlining was the order of the day here. Stuff like the convo checks and save system definitely seem to be implying you deal with stuff however you feel like, but then let the chips fall where they may.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 15th Feb 2018 at 14:11.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    So I got to sink two hours into this yesterday and I'm relieved. I hope I don't eat my words later, but I'm running a High preset with Global Illumination and Shadows throttled to Medium and it's staying north of 45fps for now even with torchlight. Will have to see how things progress once I reach the more populated areas which is where things get rough, supposedly, I don't mind dropping down to Medium overall as long as my framerate doesn't dip under 40.

    Anyway, the game's a looker, no argument, it has all the latest graphical bells and whistles and a real sense of scale to the world. Funnily enough this is my first CryEngine title. The game world looks authentic, to the best I can judge, and I'm getting a peculiar whiff of STALKER about how it's built, which is very appealing. I also love the art direction in the UI, the way the map and character screens look, blending period illumination styles into skeumorphics that hark back to Infinity Engine interfaces. Character models and textures are higher fidelity than The Witcher 3's, though facial animations, while fine enough, lack the finesse and subtelty of CDPR's work. There are a couple of inexplicably absent technical settings, such as control over Anti-Aliasing and V-Sync, though Vavra's promised they should be added in short order.

    The essential controls are easy to pick up and it doesn't take long to start figuring out the interface and what RPG stats you need to track. The game expands on the basic form of survival mechanics from STALKER, including things like bleeding, exhaustion, hunger (overindulging which slaps you with a debuff lovingly represented by a pig's head), but it seems to stop short of the tedious micromanagement of the actual survival genre.

    Now, combat... I've only had an opportunity to do a sword training session and to box a drunk, but I'm not entirely sold on it yet. I expect there's a serious learning curve by design and that various perks and skill progression will make a significant difference, but I also get the feeling this works better with a controller than a mouse. Specifically, choosing your attack direction struck me as difficult to control with minor movements of a mouse, whereas a thumbstick I imagine will be a lot easier to push into the appropriate position.

    I haven't had an opportunity to deal with the game's other novel feature, the armour layering system, unless you count getting Henry's shirt ripped and bloodied in a fistfight. But it all looks pretty impressive on other characters, at least.

    Oh, and the save system... Yeah, I modded that right out, just hope Warhorse don't get all auteur and try to break the relevant hack. Just block achievements and let me savescum in peace. If any of you guys want make your lives easier, it's right here.

    Anyway, it's early days, I'm only two hours in and haven't even learned lockpicking yet. Could go either way, but first impressions are good and I found myself wanting to play more last night but, you know, gotta wake up in the morning.

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    How much meaningful role playing is there in the game? I know you are playing a preset character with a set personality, but how much agency do you have in terms of how he behaves in the game world and interacts with NPCs? I guess another way to put it is on a scale of Fallout 4 to Fallout 2, how is the role playing?

  12. #87
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    I've played a lot more of this, and am enjoying it a lot more than I originally was. The voice acting is still ropey, but I'm now in the phase where the game isn't getting in the way.

    Ostriig: there's a second combat tutorial when you get further along the main story which really helps, and I think until you've actually played that sequence, certain important visual cues aren't visible (the game does a lot of this, locking features behind progression without explicitly telling the player).

    I too modded out the stupid save thing almost immediately. And while I'm usually a fan of lockpicking minigames, the one in this sucks massive donkey-cock and is nothing like really picking a lock. So I've modded that out too, instead having locks only open when I've reached the required skill level.

    However, I have ran in to a serious bug that's now preventing me from advancing the main storyline, and worryingly, it looks like this was reported 2 years ago during development and hasn't been fixed.
    Basically, I can no longer sit down anywhere. If I do, it locks me in place and locks out all controls except for attack, which thankfully breaks the lock. And there's a main story quest which involves you sitting down, which I simply can't do.

    It also prevents me from reading (have to sit to read), and sleeping, but I can offset the need to sleep by visiting bath-houses instead.

    That aside, it's a very fun game. Just hope they fix it soon.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    I've seen a couple of mods for lockpicking that I'm keeping an eye on. I want to try it for myself but I really doubt I'll want to keep it stock, even Bethesda Game™ lockpicking gets on my nerves after a bit, albeit not to the point of modding it. I look forward to the next fencing tutorial, though, it was more fun than the boxing bit.

    I think patch 1.3 should be coming within a week or so with a bunch of bugfixes, they'll want to get that out in time for the GOG launch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buccura View Post
    How much meaningful role playing is there in the game?
    On a scale of Fallout 4 to Fallout 2 Planescape: Torment, I suspect this game will be about a Witcher 3. Jokes aside, I'm not qualified to comment yet, based off the opening area and the promotional materials it's not Fallout 4 and there are choices to make and different approaches to take, though not necessarily signposted, but I'll have to play more to see just how much agency you get.

  14. #89
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Thanks to the way people behave towards you depending on your actions and the layered faction system (guards in a town may have a different opinion of you than civvies for example), there's a lot of interesting ways to play the minute-to-minute content.

    Then there's whether you're dressed in rich clothing, knight's armour, dark clothing or stinky rags, each eliciting different responses from different people. I'd say it's pretty deep from an role-playing perspective.

    For example, whilst driven by practicality, I have two outfits depending on what I intend to do. If I'm interacting with people in broad daylight or fast-travelling, I'll put on my shiny armour. This in turn results in people addressing me with respect, calling me "Sir Knight" and variations thereof.

    If I'm sneaking about, whether that be in town robbing houses, or stalking bandits in the woods at night, I'll be wearing dark, quiet clothing, and people again address me accordingly, noting that I look a bit shifty. Guards even seem more likely to stop and search me.

    So I find my behaviour changing based on what I'm wearing. Pretty cool.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2008
    There's also a pretty neat perk called 'art connoisseur' that gives you a temporary boost to charisma whenever you discover a new fresco or shrine.

    I went down the vanilla route and didn't install the save game mod. I learnt to read and learnt the herbalism skill. Spent a lot of time tracking down the ingredients for the save potion (best hidden object game of 2018 nomination right here) and then learnt alchemy. Fucking hell is it OTT. Each potion needs up to 3 ingredients which need to go into the cauldron at different times, and the mixture has to be brought to boil using a bellows for a certain amount of turns of an egg timer. Some of the ingredients need to be ground with a pestle and mortar first, and some also need distilling afterwards. If you fail a step, no potion or starting ingredients for you.

    So, now I have all the Saviour Schnapps I need, and I've bumped up my alchemy skills. I went and bought a book containing the recipe for bane potion because it sounds badass and can kill people. I'm going to try sneaking up to a bandit camp at night and putting that shit in the cooking pot, and wait until morning to check out what happens. It's cool that all the AI have routines. I noticed that in shops, they get up in the morning and have breakfast and wash before opening up, like it's The Sims or something.

    I've also been having fun following the treasure maps. I found an unmarked grave under a lone tree. Had a dead couple buried together and I looted a loaded die, so I went on a tour of the bars just to cheat at that dice game.

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    By the by, just a heads up on saves and especially if you use the mod, you might encounter an issue eventually. From the Unlimited Saving mod page:

    Save games capped at 300
    Someone has reported that the game won't let you save after you've got 300 saves. Take backups of all your saves, remove all saves except your latest one. Now go in-game and load that save, delete it from the load menu and then save. It should be labeled as "Save 1" now.

    This has been confirmed on the consoles as well, so it's not caused by the mod.

    Thanks to /u/AENIGMA_UK for this.
    Simple enough workaround on PC, though it's a dubious state of affairs. Given that this issue is also stated to apply to consoles, if it's correct, looks like someone had a serious oversight in coding the save system. Whether it's still current or not I don't know, just a thing to bear in mind.

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Eurogamer comes in with a decent review that swiftly derails into one of their worst trainwrecks yet:

    When Kingdom Come does succeed, it's peerless. The Elder Scrolls and The Witcher can feel flimsy next to the sophisticated systems and heft of history on show here.

    But there's also a big problem. There are no people of colour in the game beyond people from the Cuman tribe, a Turkic people from the Eurasian Steppe. The question is, should there be? The game's makers say they've done years of research and found no conclusive proof there should be, but a historian I spoke to, who specialises in the area, disagrees.

    "We know of African kings in Constantinople on pilgrimage to Spain; we know of black Moors in Spain; we know of extensive travel of Jews from the courts of Cordoba and Damascus; we also know of black people in large cities in Germany," the historian, Sean Miller, tells me. Czech cities Olomouc and Prague were on the famous Silk Road which facilitated the trade of goods all over the world. If you plot a line between them, it runs directly through the area recreated in Kingdom Come. "You just can't know nobody got sick and stayed a longer time," he says. "What if a group of black Africans came through and stayed at an inn and someone got pregnant? Even one night is enough for a pregnancy."

    It's not conclusive proof but it's readily available doubt to undermine Warhorse's interpretation. What muddies the water further is whose interpretation it overridingly is: creative director, writer and Warhorse co-founder Daniel Vavra's. He has been a vocal supporter of GamerGate and involved in antagonistic exchanges on Twitter (collected in a ResetEra thread). More recently, he wore the same T-shirt depicting an album cover by the band Burzum every day at Gamescom 2017 - a very visible time for him and his game. Burzum is the work of one man: Varg Vikernes, a convicted murderer and outspoken voice on racial purity and supremacy. He even identified as a Nazi for a while.

    This isn't to say Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a hotbed of racism, because it isn't. The Turkic Cumans speak a different language and are a hostile enemy, which seems like a limited portrayal but no less so than any other war game I can think of. Then again, I'm white, so maybe I've missed things. And racism can take many forms, one of them being exclusion.

    [...]

    All of which means that a shadow lingers over Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Instead of challenging the Dark Age it reinterprets 615 years later, the game seems to delight in it. Instead of seeing notes in the margin of a history book, we get what feels like a glossy pamphlet advertising an escape into an oddly romanticised past. And it's that, ultimately, which makes me too uneasy about Warhorse's work to be able to recommend it.

  18. #93
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Yeah, I could do without the political slant in what's supposed to be a game review. If the game suffers due to the creators' politics then by all means - but arguing about the lack of racial variety in a game set in Dark Ages Bohemia is kind of daft. It just reads like the reviewer has issues with the kind of person Vavra is and pitchforked that in. EG'd be much better off if they kept the politicising to a separate article, and the review focused squarely on how good or bad the actual game is.

  19. #94
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Weirdly, the sitting bug cleared up on its own during gameplay last night. This makes me think it's tied to quest progression. So yeah, if you find yourself affected by this, I think the quest I did that got rid of it was the one where Henry has to meet Theresa before noon.

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Is the political part of the Eurogamer article simply inaccurate or is it badly done? The point the reviewer makes about the game romanticising the iffy parts of the time and place it depicts sound fair enough to me *if accurate*, but the bits where he goes "I asked this one historian and xyz" didn't sound particularly convincing - to me they read more like a pre-existing political point was projected onto the game than like valid, well-argued criticism (and I'm saying that as someone who's sympathetic to the general point re: representation).

  21. #96
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    They're making a mountain out of a molehill, for sure. Nothing egregious has leapt out at me while playing, and I don't know enough about the region or its history to make an informed judgment about the game's accuracy. But to be honest, it's a game, a form of escapism, and I'm prepared to grant it some leeway. In much the same way that while I may not agree with the key developer's political views, it certainly doesn't stop me from enjoying the game (in large part due to understanding that a game like this isn't solely the product of an individual).

    One of my touchstones for things like this is the sci-fi novel Ender's Game.
    It's a fantastic story that gave me a lot of enjoyment, but I find Orson Scott Card's personal political views repellent. I'm able to separate the story from the author. The same goes for Heinlein's Starship Troopers, or Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos.
    Some people far too easily take offense these days, and aren't prepared to be challenged in their thinking by opposing political views.

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    From what I've heard, the developers themselves have also sought out this controversy, basically presenting this as "sticking it to the SJWs" and making it a statement, like the Hatred devs. Seems like it's mostly just a continuation of the culture war that reached its peak with Gamergate: https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/gami...ideo-game-poc/
    Last edited by Starker; 24th Feb 2018 at 08:27.

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