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Thread: "Hacker money" - Bitcoin

  1. #51
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu

    HI PAGE THREE

    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    Bitcoin is financial LARPing.
    I could have saved a lot of time by quoting you >:(

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Well I do agree that is really loose and prone to abuse, I already said a few posts up that's exactly why I am not getting involved. But the thing is, it is getting increasing more publicity and, scam or not, people are buying into that shit...

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Australia
    sounds like someone's a little angry they didn't get in on the bottom floor

    I had a strange moment where I was reading some debates about bitcoin and its capitalisation of US$44mil or thereabouts came up. At first, one thinks - "that many people are interested in it?!" And then the second reaction is, "oh, only that much money; it's not serious yet."

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: Chemistry
    It seems to be a very good idea, in principle. The cryptographic solutions to verifying transactions are good.

    The way they issue BitCoin, is bad. They are essentially giving away currency to the people who start the system up. I could start my own BitCoin operation, where I would issue all the initial BitCoins to myself, and it would have all the same properties for security (other than I would be in charge or issuing new coins.)

    If a similar system was set up, backed by a large company/central bank, where the coins were pegged to some existing currency (ie put in $, get issued new BitCoin) the system might take off as away of securely exchanging money without it being traceable, and with low transaction fees.

  5. #55
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2005
    Location: Watching the puppets thrash.
    Quote Originally Posted by dethtoll View Post
    Inevitable, as the article states. Why you would use standard locations and refuse encryption for this kind of thing is absolutely beyond me.

  7. #57
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    It looks like Bitcoin is picking up quite a bit of publicity, which may be just what it needs to snowball to an unstoppable size and become a permanent fixture in the global economy. Interesting times ahead of us folks... interesting indeed.
    Are you saying this is the time to convert my hard-earned Linden Dollars into Bitcoin and become rich, like Anse Chung and all those other people?

    It's sperg coin for people who can't spot a pyramid.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Well, pyramid schemes are a permanent fixture in our economy. Perhaps a small one, but they're always there.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Australia
    "The first actual theft of Bitcoins was reported this week by a user who claimed a hacker transferred 25,000 BTC from his machine, theoretically worth about $500,000 at current exchange rates."

    Heh, great journalism. "The thieves took off with 1,000 euros, theoretically worth US$1,430 at current exchange rates"

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    The difference is, most people know what Euro is and how much it is worth. The same most people probably haven't heard of BTC. And with its value changing by as much as 30% on a daily basis, no one really knows how much they're worth at any point in time. Valid journalism.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Plus, most journalists will give the rough local value of an amount in another currency. They don't usually include the word "theoretically", though.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Australia
    That's obviously my point. A properly written article would have stated something along the lines of "Worth approximately US$X at the time of the theft", or similar.

    Saying something has a theoretical value automatically assumes it has no practical value, which simply isn't the case when people are buying and selling it for real money at that very moment.

    Obviously more people know about the euro than bitcoins. As a journalist, it's his job to inform readers exactly what they are, not to infer that they're monopoly money.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Who's asking?
    I never even heard of BitCoin until the news of this theft hit the front page of Reddit a couple of days ago.

    While I'm sympathetic toward the poor guy, it boggles the mind that he trusted a piece of technology still in its infancy to that extent. If this was product being marketed as a currency substitute, for that amount of money to transfer to an unauthorized recipient without any recourse available to the victim would simply be unacceptable. However, seeing how this is a peer-to-peer, open-source (a red-flag phrase, IMO) financial exchange method, I'd be curious as to what this guy could possibly do to recover his loss.

    Hopefully the actual amount he put in it was fairly small at the time of his investment, then the unit value appreciated over time, in which case this would be a little more than a learning experience.

  14. #64
    is Best Pony
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: The magical land of Equestria
    I think that is the case - some reports seem to claim his actual investment was around US$1000.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: Chemistry
    The whole point of bitcoin is that it is effectively digital cash. Once it is stolen, its gone. Once you spend it, its gone. On the plus side governments cannot freeze your assets, or trace transactions.

    You could report the bicoin as stolen, and ask people not to accept the coins in the future, much in the way you can with bank-note serial numbers. I don't think the bitcoin spec allows this to happen though.

    https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20...count-rollback

    Looks like some hackers targeted the weak-link; the exchange converting bit-coins into real cash. They hacked the accounts and tried to sell everyone's bitcoins, crashing the value.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Australia
    Apparently there's a popular conspiracy theory that the fellow who had 25,000 bitcoins stolen did so deliberately (or faked it); some inconsistencies with posting history, a total lack of security even after he reported a theft from his mining pool operation, and various other things apparently mean he was deliberately trying to crash the value of bitcoins. A little wild, but interesting nonetheless!

  17. #67
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    No one mentioned this so far, but I first heard about bitcoins here in relation to their application in anonymously buying illegal substances.

    Ultimately bitcoin is just a medium of exchange, I think the trouble comes in when people start to get obsessed with speculating with it. The same problems apply to the "reliable" currencies that governments produce - the creation of money out of thin air has been going on for a long time, and the amount of money in existence has far outstripped any real reserves banks have. Maybe the only difference between bitcoin and dollars or pounds is the people doing the creation of the fictional cash.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by d0om View Post
    It seems to be a very good idea, in principle. The cryptographic solutions to verifying transactions are good.

    The way they issue BitCoin, is bad. They are essentially giving away currency to the people who start the system up. I could start my own BitCoin operation, where I would issue all the initial BitCoins to myself, and it would have all the same properties for security (other than I would be in charge or issuing new coins.)

    If a similar system was set up, backed by a large company/central bank, where the coins were pegged to some existing currency (ie put in $, get issued new BitCoin) the system might take off as away of securely exchanging money without it being traceable, and with low transaction fees.
    Which is what government hates.
    Digital money (and digital elections) were figured out by Shamir 5 years ago, but have 0 chances to go mainstream because they would either threaten the power of the elite or are just too fucking complicated for the plebes to trust (they also require the plebes to keep their private keys protected - preferably outside your COMPUTER dumbnutz and have a secure networked computer, which is lol no).
    Last edited by SeriousCallersOnly; 3rd Jul 2011 at 23:05.

  19. #69
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    NYTimes article on Bitcoins today.

  20. #70
    I think bitcoin mining should be in actual useful work, like the Folding@home project or something.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: Chemistry
    The way bitcoin mining is implemented it has to be able to be of known difficulty, so the difficulty can continually adjust as the power of the network grows (keeping the generation rate constant.)

    It also has to be very quick to verify (at the moment its calculating data which gives a certain hash, so easy to verify, but hard to do.)

    Its hard to do this for useful projects.

  22. #72
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location

  24. #74
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    A friend of mine put $50 down on bitcoins the other day. He made $40, then lost $30. This happened within 15 minutes of his first transaction.

    He's pretty stoked, because he's $10 ahead. Wait. Now he owes them money. Wait. He's a millionaire. Wait. Now he's ruined. Okay, he's back up to $60 again.

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