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Thread: Conspiracies

  1. #1

    Conspiracies

    This is mostly the same as a post I made in the PDX forum so if you visit both like I do it could be you read most of this already.

    We have the Illuminati, a must have of all conspiracy theories.
    We have Majestic Twelve, a sub set of the Illuminati that later rebelled.
    We have the Bilderbergs, Beth Duclare was involved with them and it is said that they are the “executive committee of the Illuminati”
    We have the Templars, apparently they control the finacnce of the world, it is said that they were taken in by the Freemasons when the order was disbabded.
    We have the Freemasons, mentioned only twice (in the game) with no proof that they are even in the game, it is said that the Illuminati was originally formed by members of the Masonic order. It is also said the Bilderbergs were created in part by Freemasons. It is said that the Illuminati existed for quite a bit inside of the Freemasons before it became separate and it’s own thing.

    Finally we have Rosy Cross, the name that the (Internet) Oracle chooses. The Rosicrucians are some interesting people, no doubt, but why would the Oracle choose that? Could it be that the oracle is a society of Rosicrucians, or a Rosicrucian AI? When I was trying to find this out I came across the page: http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/R/Rosicruc.asp

    I read it a little, then I hit this
    The society was variously called Brothers of the Rosy Cross, Rosy-Cross Knights, and Rosy-Cross Philosophers; its adepts are called Illuminati.

    Sound interesting? The Oracle doesn’t know about MJ12 that means that it isn’t made up of Illuminati.

    It could be that it is made of/by Rosicrucians (of whom the Illuminati were once part.)
    It could be that the name is chosen because it (gathering more and more information) becomes a bearer of the light (Illuminatus.)
    It could be a prototype for Morpheus that traded information rather than mined it. It might have been named that out of respect for the Illuminati’s parent.

    Short descriptions that are longer than the ones already there:

    The Illuminati were founded, or revived, by Adam Weishaupt, a Freemason, under the name “Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria” on May 1st, 1776. Thomas Jefferson also revived it a few years later. When the Illuminati and the Freemasons were forced underground it is said that the Illuminati begin to infiltrate and subvert Fremason lodges. As a result many of the first Illuminati were Fremasons.

    Majestic Twelve is one of those annoying enigmas, what we do know is that it was part of the Illuminai and existed as early as in 1984 when “leaked” documents were found implicating MJ112 in UFO/alien cover ups. An email from Bog Page to Lucius DeBeers suggests that this leak and perhaps the Roswell crash itself were a bit of meme indirection, hiding the real purpose of MJ12. It eventually rebelled under the command of Bob Page.

    The Bilderberg Group has been meeting every year for four days since it’s inception in 1954. It is made up of 115 of the most powerful men and women in the world. What goes on in the meetings is kept secret. It is said that they are the executive committee of the Illuminati. Beth Duclare was apparently working for or with them in the Somnolente Ile scandal.

    The Templars are an order of “Warrior monks” who were founded in 1118 and received papal approval in 1128. They formed the basis for modern banking and have been pulling the finical threads ever since. It is said that they were taken in by the freemasons when the order was outlawed and the members were hunted down.

    Freemasons, the founder of the Illuminati was a freemason, most of the original Illuminati members were freemasons. It is said that the freemasons took in the Templars. There is a bum in New York City that would appears to know more than he is letting on, who uses a Masonic passphrase and believes the NSF is playing into his groups hands and Washington just needs a little push.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jul 1999
    Location: tr gse!
    Hulk SMASH.

    That said, good read you got there. Surely the oracle could just be some conspiracy nut with a punny name, though?

  3. #3
    Yup it could.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Feb 1999
    DeusEx-Machina: Whose idea was it to include references to the Oracle? Could you briefly explain the concept to the players that aren't with the old times?

    Chris Todd: Wow. I'm impressed (and amused) that someone caught this. One of the challenges of this kind of writing is producing a lot of small bits of text which still somehow impart a sense of character or atmosphere to the rest of the game; after a while it becomes difficult to keep track of who's who, so I fell back on using an old trick where most of the characters in the game had some personality tic that would inform their dialog or writing, even if it was never explained... So for the Oracle I decided that somewhere out there on the Net was a gestalt computer intelligence that operated as a clearing house for information--the catch being that you had to pay it in information it didn't already have. It attempted to hide its nature right out in the open by pretending to be an automated server that responded to questions. And when I thought of _that_, it tickled a memory from the misty past of Usenet, where people would post questions to the "Internet Oracle" and have to answer a question from the Oracle in turn. Questions and responses would get posted, usually in rec.humor.oracle. The whole thing was a rather mysterious bit of collaborative performance art/stand-up comedy routine. If you want to know more, do a Deja search for "Intro to the Usenet Oracle." Anyways, almost none of that was implicit in the game, but now you know what I was thinking about (which is probably way more than you wanted to hear).

    (from here)


    => Rosy Cross isn't just a conspiracy nutso.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jul 1999
    Location: tr gse!
    Meh, I'm always wrong.

  6. #6
    Originally posted by Lytha
    Said some stuff
    I already knew that it was based on the Usenet Oracle, but I couldn't find a way to fit that into a conspiracy post. The idea that it was an AI of some kind had been mentioned, so as I said I thought that it might be a Morpheus alternative, rather than mining for information trading it. I didn’t know that Chris had said anything on it, thanks for the info.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Montreal, Canada

    Re: Conspiracies

    Originally posted by chris the cynic
    We have the Freemasons, mentioned only twice (in the game) with no proof that they are even in the game, it is said that the Illuminati was originally formed by members of the Masonic order.
    Where are they mentionned? I know though that the bum in the NYC free clinic must be one, because he says "Who will help the Widow's son?", which is a phrase freemasons use to secretly greet each other.

    According to history the masons/Illuminati were behind the french revolution, so it makes sense that they are pushing revolutionary groups like the NSF...

  8. #8

    Re: Re: Conspiracies

    Originally posted by Krahl
    Where are they mentionned? I know though that the bum in the NYC free clinic must be one, because he says "Who will help the Widow's son?", which is a phrase freemasons use to secretly greet each other.

    According to history the masons/Illuminati were behind the french revolution, so it makes sense that they are pushing revolutionary groups like the NSF...
    The Bum is one, the ConText File discribes that as Masonic passphrase, which you already know it is.

    The other time is in a conversation you can't get to. If you rescue Schick and then talk to Smuggler he will mention Freemasons. The problem is that you can't rescue Schick before you talk to Smuggler. If you do (oh the beauty of cheating) you get the conversation.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Awesome... thanks - I'm going to try this out.

  10. #10
    I should mention that although hearing the conversation is nice freemasons are mentioned nothing more. If you are looking for a divine conspiratorial revalation this is not the place to look. Try summoning Ford Schick in the last Hell's Kitchen misson and talking to him.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan
    What about George Washington and the Order of Cincinnati, mentioned in a book Smuggler has? Any idea?

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Smuggler- "They're the CIA, or maybe Freemasons."



    Smuggler is a really bad conspiracy theorist.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jul 1999
    Location: tr gse!
    You know, you're right. He says daft shit every time you talk to him. But he's lovable!

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Here
    Yeah, as Jacobson says, he's pretty whacked-out. Check out his computer, also:

    Login = Hidden
    Password = TrustNo1

    (There's also Schick's account - Schick, Razor - but that never has mail)

    Some of his messages are interesting. Seems that the often-heard, never-seen NSF trio of Decker, Young and Todd did make it out of NY, or at least tried. And the "Citizens Rights" conspiracy mailing-list he suscribes to makes his views look tame.

    Shirow Yoshitaka said:
    Next time, get your facts straight.
    (The humour becomes apparent if you read the rest)

    Z

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Z
    Some of his messages are interesting. Seems that the often-heard, never-seen NSF trio of Decker, Young and Todd did make it out of NY, or at least tried.
    Ok just got a second email from Chris Todd:

    Well, it's been so long, I'm not sure there's much else I can think of...the only thing that occurs to me is my tribute to "System Shock 2" (one of the best RPG/action games ever made). I had three characters who you never actually meet, but only read about in data cubes and e-mails: an older, grizzled vet, and a younger couple who are in love. Originally working for MJ12 as security, they escape the destruction of the airfield at the beginning of the game and realize that they're former employers probably wouldn't be happy to see them, so they go on the run.

    And, of course, wherever JC goes, they just happen to be in the same city, trying to buy passports or get out of the country. You can follow their story all the way to Paris, where I was going to have them tragically killed (there's a news item about a security bot going crazy and gunning down a bunch of folks at a cafe that's a remnant of that idea), but in the end I couldn't bring myself to do it. Of course, I couldn't figure out how to end their story, either, and since it was near the end of the development cycle...they just kind of vanish in Paris. One assumes they're probably sunning themselves in Tuscany somewhere under new identities.


    It's better the way he did it, tragic death wouldn't have fit, and an ending would probably be amiss, they were trying to get away and to do that they had to dissapear thus having an end other than the information just stopping would be odd.

  16. #16
    Just to break it up this (which was the greater part of that email from Chris) gets it's own post.

    RosyCross is, in fact, a reference to the Rosicrucians, who almost always seem to find themselves somehow entangled with the Knights Templar and even Opus Dei in the various conspiracy theories. In this case, though, I didn't have a deep (or even shallow) motivation for using that as the Oracle's address, other than the fact that it fit in with the general atmosphere of the game. On the other hand, I did have a backstory for the Oracle that never really made it into the game – more explanation below.

    That confirms that the name is the reference I thought it also has no real relation to the AI, guess AI's pick interesting email addresses.

    To understand the Oracle, you need to understand that it's also something of an inside joke: in the early days of the Internet, when it was mostly nothing but Usenet postings, there was something called "the Usenet Oracle." You'd post a question, and if the Usenet Oracle deigned, you'd get an answer -- usually something humorous -- after which the Oracle would demand payment in some form. "You owe the Oracle an apple a day," or "You owe the Oracle eternal happiness."

    So, I decided -- in the best William Gibson tradition -- that in the universe of DX, the Internet (or whatever its future equivalent is) had reached a critical mass of information that resulted in one or more artificial intelligences being spontaneously generated. Not wishing to draw attention to themselves, they masquerade as real people and only communicate electronically as they go about their subtle and unknowable business. The Oracle is one of these, but it's taken an interest in humanity, so it acts as an information broker in exchange for odd favors or items that help it understand people. Of course, essentially being an alien, the things it requests and what it considers a "good trade" are a little different from what actual human beings might desire.


    I hadn’t even considered that it was created without intention, this of course answers the questions of who made it and who it works for: itself.

    This was something purely of my own creation and was never really integrated with the rest of the game -- though it doesn't necessarily contradict anything in the game either -- but I thought it would be a fun little thing for people to wonder about it. Unfortunately, since I haven't really been involved in DX2, it's unlikely the Oracle will be making a return.

    Damn, I liked the Oracle, and I liked Todd’s work.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: looking for Bellona
    Obviously, some people really do take this conspiracy crap seriously.

    http://www.conspiracydigest.com/bookrule.html

    Protect yourself! http://www.stopabductions.com/

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Here
    Hmm. Thanks for posting that, chris. System Shock 2, eh? Makes sense, now that I think about it.

    Yes, it's a pity that Chris Todd won't be involved (or at least as involved) in DX2. I think Sheldon Pacotti is a great writer, but I also enjoyed Todd's work.

    Z

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