Thief 3 on DVD?

[Blackjack]

So, should T3 come out on DVD-ROM?

Please answer the poll from YOUR PERSPECTIVE ONLY, don't try to second-guess the market. The whole point is to find out what the market, ie you, could stand. Which format would YOU prefer to receive? Me, I'd be happy to see it on DVD. You can follow my reasoning here.

Some reasons for:
- No CD swapping
- Bundled extras
- No crushing of missions to fit CDs
- Saves dosh for publishers / developers

Some reasons against:
- Don't have a DVD reader
- Err? ...

[mOdEtWo]

I don't have a DVD reader yet, but I'm thinking of getting me one. As I've heard, Eidos have runned some forum polls on their game forums to find out if the users wanted 5 CD's or 1 DVD etc, I'm not sure what the results were.

If Thief 3 comes out on a DVD rom, I'll be sure to buy a DVD-R.

[Taffer4life]

If we, by purchasing a DVD reader could get a bunch of extra material on the T3-(DVD)... I have voted for DVD-rom instead of CD's. Because of the possibilities in it!

[Azal]

EIDOS (the publishers of the game) actually held their own polls on this very topic a few months back.

I'm in favour of it it if means getting extra goodies.

[Rebelteen]

DVDs are many times more expensive then CDs. Bulk DVDs cost about 25 cents a piece, and CDs about a penny. That's not a bid deal, but Eidos isn't the first company I think of that would spend their own money to eliminate swapping. Some people don't have DVDs yet, still. I'd say they should have both, a CD and DVD version.

[honeymaker]

There's no way they'd release a game ONLY on DVD at this point. All it would do is cut into their potential sales. But I would like to see a "special edition" DVD version with lots of extras.

[Keeper Arnal]

I'm a fan of the DVD idea. There are some pros and cons regarding piracy with DVDs...

pro: Far fewer people can copy DVDs
con: I'm not aware of any DVD-protection systems that cover DVD games

[Omega]

I'd like a DVD special edition version as well. I'd buy a DVD-R for it too.

[deadman]

Originally posted by Keeper Arnal
I'm a fan of the DVD idea. There are some pros and cons regarding piracy with DVDs...

pro: Far fewer people can copy DVDs
con: I'm not aware of any DVD-protection systems that cover DVD games

Actually, anyone can copy a DVD, Keeper True, everyone might not have a DVD burner, but one can easily make an image file out of it and in a few steps make a 'virtual drive' to emulate that image. This is what programs like Alcohol 120% and Virtual Daemon do best, and regardless if they are meant for the legal emulation/backup of CD's/DVD's, who knows who would extract the files from their DVD and share online. So in this case I think it would be easier to pirate with only 1 DVD. I mean, you'd only have to d/l 1 image and mount it (rather than 5 or however many Thief 3 will consist of), so I'm not too sure..

I voted for the DVD, especially if it had extras or perhaps even higher quality cutscenes than I'm supposing they'll include to begin with! Bulk DVD's may be more expensive, but why not just pass some of those costs onto the consumer? I'm sure many of us would pay a little extra for a 'limited edition' or 'game of the year edition' release. Hell, I'll buy both! *hopes Thief 3 devs are watching this thread*

deadman.

EDIT: Trust me, even if there were a DVD protection (not that I know either way), this wouldn't keep folks out for long. Nothing is impenetrable.. You should know that, from being a thiefsy fool!

[bird59]

I like this idea, if it will be that 9GB DVD (2 layers), it couldnt be copied on any DVD burner on market .... nad if it would be a 9GB DVD, then it can contain Thief TDP GOLD and Thief TMA ... that would be GREAT! ;-)

[Burdcheese]

Installing all the new Unreal engine games, each taking up around 3gb, is pretty annoying, having to switch Cd 4 times. At least they're not up to RPG proportions
...yet

7 cds...

[Blackjack]

Well, thus far, I'd say the DVD solution is running away with it at this point. Just 25% opposed, with 6% of them owning DVD readers anyway. No contest?

I'd like someone to submit a really good reason for it to still come out on CD, as the pro-CD arguments have sounded incredibly weak. I'd wager that those who say they don't have a DVD reader also don't have a PC of the sort of spec capable of running Thief 3 (1GHz, 256MB, Geforce 3?) so I think that argument can be instantly discounted.

Also, though bulk blank DVDs may be more expensive, I seriously doubt if that's true once the costs of storage, data writing, printing and packing are included.

C'mon! Someone show me I'm wrong.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Blackjack
I'd like someone to submit a really good reason for it to still come out on CD

DVD-ROM players have not yet achieved the same market penetration as CD-ROM players. Thus more would be lost in sales than would be gained in manufacturing savings. Period. The end.

[Blackjack]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
DVD-ROM players have not yet achieved the same market penetration as CD-ROM players. Thus more would be lost in sales than would be gained in manufacturing savings. Period. The end.

Take it easy ZylonBane! Since you obviously didn't read my previous post carefully enough: I accepted that not everyone has a DVD reader. The poll shows that clearly, too, and that's based on folk who visit this forum, who may (or may not) have higher spec machines than on average, possibly including a higher proportion of DVD drives.

However, that's not the same as saying that those with only CD drives are going to be capable of playing T3, even at minimum res. I have a DVD drive, but I'm not exactly confident that I'll be able to play T3 on my PIII 733, GF3. Splinter Cell already recommends a PIII 800 as minimum spec. NOLF 2, out last Christmas, recommends a P4 1Ghz (even if it optimistically claims a minimum PIII 500). Since T3 isn't due 'til about Christmas, I wouldn't be surprised if the PC version asks for an even higher spec. I know the Xbox version will run, at very low res, on a near equivalent to mine, but that doesn't necessarily equate to an acceptable performance of the PC version of T3 on my machine. See this thread for speculation about T3 system requirements.

Since even my PC, which includes a DVD drive, is going to be hard pressed to play T3, even badly, those machines old enough to only have CD drives, which in the UK implies they're really quite old or they're networked PCs running NT, Win2000 or such like, may well be in a similar position. In other words, your point about the current market penetration level of DVD drives per se may be irrelevant. The key figure will actually be the market penetration of DVD drives on PCs capable of playing T3, at minimum res, by winter 2003.

Well, that requires speculation in a number of areas, but it would be interesting to know of a more balanced analysis than your own rather absurd blanket ban on DVDs. DVD drives in the UK are now significantly cheaper than the full retail price of a single game. I'd argue that DVD will take over from CD as the medium of choice for system-stretching games, and that the watershed is getting very close now. The question is at what point (system-wise) and then at what date. It's not a simple matter of the overall market penetration of DVD drives. The fact that Eidos had a poll on this very subject a while back, as Azal pointed out, suggests it's increasingly in the publishers' minds too.

No period. Not the end ... not yet anyway.

[ZylonBane]

There's nothing absurd about my "blanket ban" [sic] on DVD players. The fact of the matter is that publishers can't afford to publish exclusively on DVD until almost every gamer has a DVD drive. To do otherwise would just cost them sales and generally piss people off.

Let's not be all techno-elitist with the "well if they don't have a DVD-ROM they prolly couldn't play it anyway!", mmkay?

[Blackjack]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
There's nothing absurd about my "blanket ban" [sic] on DVD players.

If you say so.

The fact of the matter is that publishers can't afford to publish exclusively on DVD until almost every gamer has a DVD drive. To do otherwise would just cost them sales and generally piss people off.

That's like saying publishers can't afford to publish Splinter Cell until almost every gamer has a PIII 800, which they just have regardless. Actually, not regardless, but after careful market analysis. That same careful market analysis may reveal that DVD drives, now far cheaper than new GeForce graphics cards, Audigy sound, Athlon or P4 chips, and most motherboards, are already (or at least will be by Christmas) on their minimum target systems.

Let's not be all techno-elitist with the "well if they don't have a DVD-ROM they prolly couldn't play it anyway!", mmkay?

Huh? Who's being techno-elitist? More than likely I won't be able to play T3 even on my 'elitist' DVD-equipped PC. I'm just speculating that DVD drives could already be on 98.5% (sheer bloody-minded guess) of PCs capable of handling T3's other min specs, by the release date. It won't be the shift to DVD that'll piss gamers off, it'll be the need for a whole new PC in many cases. Go read the spec thread. As for me, I won't begrudge the £500 upgrade required (honest! ) least of all the relatively pifling £25 for a new DVD drive.

[Abysmal]

I generally find that more often than not, only CD-RW drives are in the higher range PCs. They should just release a CD and a DVD version of their games, and see how that goes...it would promote DVD/DVD-RW drives and get them to become more the norm.

[Fuzzbox23]

I was wrong, they should release the game in both.

I'm not sure, but I think Gabriel Knight... or, no , it was the last (AFAIK) Tex Avery yeeeears ago that did this. It should by now be the norm to release both formats... just as the used to give you a CD and floppies yeeears and yeeears ago.

[deadman]

Originally posted by Abysmal
I generally find that more often than not, only CD-RW drives are in the higher range PCs.

'higher range'? Wow, I feel better about my HP pavilion already! It was a piece of crap two years ago when we got it, and "What's this? It includes a DVD-Rom? Oh joy!" and came complete with a nVidia TNT2 video card with *ahem* 32 MB of memory! Wow. Pardon my sarcasm, I just think you underestimate the power of the dark side!! Oops, too much caffeine. You can't be honest when you say DVD-Roms are only found on higher end PCs, can you? My computer came with it standard two years ago, and that was one cheap mutha, so how do you think things are today? I see a lot of promotions on TV for 'special offers' that include a DVD burner for free if it's purchased online. Granted, DVD burners are still in their infancy and the good ones are expensive as taff, but it's obvious a large percentage of stock PC buyers are getting DVD-roms with their systems these days.. You just can't refute that. And if not, roms aren't that expensive. They don't write, after all, and I'm sure many Thief fans would spend the pocket change it costs to get one .

deadman.

[ZylonBane]

If releasing games on DVD is such a no-brainer... then how come the staggering majority of new games are still released on CD?

I've got this crazy notion that maybe the people who actually crunch the numbers might know a little more about the economics involved, eh?

[Muzman]

I think by the time it comes out there will be plenty of games on DVD (perhaps not exclusively). A basic DVD drive costs fifty bucks here, now. All the new computers I see have them. I wager there are more DVD drives in Aus than component DVD players.
The penetration will be sufficient.

[Azal]

I bet you say that to all the girls, Muz

[Till_Lind]

DVD would work for me, mainly because I have a DVD-ROM but it would also probably mean they could have high quality cut scenes as well as the no CD/DVD swapping idea.

[ACT SMILEY]

I can see them doing a £30 CD and £35 DVD versions, but not just DVD.
Well, quite a few people still don't have them. Of 7 people I know who do a lot of PC gaming 3 have DVD drives. 5 would make the Thief III specs.

[Muzman]

Originally posted by Azal
I bet you say that to all the girls, Muz

But they don't stick around for the statistical projections though