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Thread: The Dark Mod updated to 2.06!

  1. #251
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    There are two exes.
    Does it make any difference using one or the other?
    I have a 64-bit Windows 10.
    Can I get rid of the 32-bit exe without worries?
    Other than that this game has always had a choppy behaviour for me. Many frame drops (from 60 down to 32) when entering a room or getting out into the streets. Stuttering is constant and doesnīt behave as smooth as other modern games. Even the older Thief and Thief2 are way smoother than this one.
    I7 3770K 3,9 GHZ - ATI HD7870 2GB OC - 8 GB RAM 1333 MHZ -HD SEAGATE 1TB 7200 RPM
    Windows 10 LTSB v1607 14393.2273 with default Windows Defender.
    RES 1280X960 for gaming, 1280x1024 desktop.
    Something similar to Thief: Deadly Shadows.
    These two games are doomed for me.
    There is really no reason to get rid of the 32 bit version, in fact it's a good idea to keep it around in case you were to run into issues running the 64 bit exe. Then you could verify any problems you encountered were 64 bit only, or consistent in both. If you're on a 64 bit system, then you should choose the 64 bit exe, or try both and see if one works better than the other for you and report your findings.

  2. #252
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    There are two exes.
    Does it make any difference using one or the other?
    I have a 64-bit Windows 10.
    Can I get rid of the 32-bit exe without worries?
    Other than that this game has always had a choppy behaviour for me. Many frame drops (from 60 down to 32) when entering a room or getting out into the streets. Stuttering is constant and doesnīt behave as smooth as other modern games. Even the older Thief and Thief2 are way smoother than this one.
    I7 3770K 3,9 GHZ - ATI HD7870 2GB OC - 8 GB RAM 1333 MHZ -HD SEAGATE 1TB 7200 RPM
    Windows 10 LTSB v1607 14393.2273 with default Windows Defender.
    RES 1280X960 for gaming, 1280x1024 desktop.
    Something similar to Thief: Deadly Shadows.
    These two games are doomed for me.
    The 32-bit build still runs faster than the 64-bit.
    The 64-bit build right now is mainly for mappers to compile HUGE missions.

    TDM 2.06 has NUMEROUS performance optimizations. You should see improvements across the board.

    Also, make sure to check out the performance tweaks wiki:

    http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php...ormance_Tweaks

    for ways to optimize further.

  3. #253
    Stuttering is constant and doesnīt behave as smooth as other modern games. Even the older Thief and Thief2 are way smoother than this one.
    Your rig seems to be decent for the resolution you use. As for performance, there are many factors contributing to that. Thief 1 and 2 have static (lightmapped) shadows, in TDM everything is dynamic. It is similar to Deadly Shadows, although it's more advanced in terms of the tech, and improvements made by the team. While mapping is easier than in Dromed, the engine requires quite a discipline when it comes to performance, and that's something mappers learn the hard way, usually. What you see as the end result is probably a sort of compromise.

    That said, 2.06 should run a bit better now, just don't crank soft shadows all the way up Also first loading times should be noticeably shorter.

  4. #254
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Changing to 32-bit exe was not much of an improvement. Perhaps 1 frame more per second.
    As an example, mission pearlsnswine takes 95 seconds to load.
    Is it too long for that mission or just about what should be expected according to my rig?

  5. #255
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    Changing to 32-bit exe was not much of an improvement. Perhaps 1 frame more per second.
    As an example, mission pearlsnswine takes 95 seconds to load.
    Is it too long for that mission or just about what should be expected according to my rig?
    Long loading times is a different problem than in-game performance.

    Did you review this section:

    http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php..._loading_times

    ?

  6. #256
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Lady Valerius' bedchambers
    I did notice loading times got slightly better with one of the last updates (2.02 - 2.04). Still needs work, but I definitely noticed it

  7. #257
    As an example, mission pearlsnswine takes 95 seconds to load.
    Try unzipping .pk4 file to a subfolder, delete .pk4, and start this mission again. It should load faster. I took around one minute on my rig.

  8. #258
    Member
    Registered: May 2012
    Location: France
    Hi there .o/

    I just updated to 2.06 and noticed that the updater automatically installed the Microsoft Visual C++ 2013 redistributables, both x86 and x64, in versions 12.0.30501.0.

    Why redistributing such an old version, though? The latest ones being version 12.0.40660.0 (Microsoft Visual C++ 2013 Update 5) as stated here (which itself was found from there).

  9. #259
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    seta image_useNormalCompression "0"
    seta image_useCompression "0"

    Using these made my loading time go from 95 seconds down to 27 seconds only. Great, great improvement.
    Unzipping .pk4 made me go from 95 to 92 seconds. Not a real improvement.

  10. #260
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    seta image_useNormalCompression "0"
    seta image_useCompression "0"

    Using these made my loading time go from 95 seconds down to 27 seconds only. Great, great improvement.
    Unzipping .pk4 made me go from 95 to 92 seconds. Not a real improvement.
    Hmm...

    I never play with these compression settings since I like the extra VRAM but the Normal Compression one shouldn't
    do anything in any modern TDM version since we don't use compressed normal maps.... Yet when I set it to 0,
    I get HUGE stutters in Behind Closed Doors. It doesn't make sense...
    Last edited by nbohr1more; 28th May 2018 at 22:39.

  11. #261
    Unzipping .pk4 made me go from 95 to 92 seconds. Not a real improvement.
    That is weird. Pk4s are just zip files, they're using old deflate method and the game isn't very fast in unpacking them. Using the unzipped version should speed things up quite a bit.

  12. #262
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    That is weird. Pk4s are just zip files, they're using old deflate method and the game isn't very fast in unpacking them. Using the unzipped version should speed things up quite a bit.
    With or without multi-threading enabled?

  13. #263
    It's faster even on 2.05, which doesn't have multi-core support.

  14. #264
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Since users seem to be cranking the Soft Shadows "Quality" slider to soften shadows (not the intended purpose of that setting),
    I have created an unofficial GUI patch to allow users to adjust softness (light center size) directly:

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-...oftness-slider

  15. #265
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    The reason why we list Soft Shadows as "experimental" in 2.06 is:

    1) In-game Anti-aliasing (MSAA) does not work properly on Nvidia hardware
    2) We plan to attempt having light center size defined on a per-light basis

    The first item has been a major pain point and has brought countless support questions.

    MSAA has finally been fixed properly internally so we are giving early access to that build as a beta download:

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-...ex-buffer-beta

  16. #266
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Now Iīm on Windows 10.
    My desktop res is 1280x1024 but I always use 1280x960 for games.
    The thing is that I canīt get the latter resolution to work.
    Created an autoexec.cfg file and put it into root folder with this content:

    seta r_customHeight "960"
    seta r_customWidth "1280"
    seta r_fullscreen "1"
    seta r_mode "-1"
    seta r_fovRatio "1.333"
    seta r_displayRefresh "60"

    but the only thing I get is a screen with a blue ribbon in the lower part of the screen and 75 fps considering 1280x960 is only 60 hz in my monitor.

    That wasnīt the case under Windows 7.
    Moreover my hardware now is I7-8700K, GTX 1060 6GB and 16GB RAM 2400 MHZ (dual channel)

  17. #267
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    Now Iīm on Windows 10.
    My desktop res is 1280x1024 but I always use 1280x960 for games.
    The thing is that I canīt get the latter resolution to work.
    Created an autoexec.cfg file and put it into root folder with this content:

    seta r_customHeight "960"
    seta r_customWidth "1280"
    seta r_fullscreen "1"
    seta r_mode "-1"
    seta r_fovRatio "1.333"
    seta r_displayRefresh "60"

    but the only thing I get is a screen with a blue ribbon in the lower part of the screen and 75 fps considering 1280x960 is only 60 hz in my monitor.

    That wasnīt the case under Windows 7.
    Moreover my hardware now is I7-8700K, GTX 1060 6GB and 16GB RAM 2400 MHZ (dual channel)
    On Nvidia hardware when you enable Soft Shadows, the game forces you into "Frame Buffer Objects" (FBO) mode which is always Native Resolution.

    To disable that behavior set:

    r_nvidiaOverride 0
    r_useFBO 0
    r_fboResolution 1


    be forewarned that doing this will result in self-shadow glitches if you use Soft Shadows.

    One thing you can do to reduce the resolution to below your native resolution while in "FBO mode" ( r_useFBO 1 ) is to use a fractional resolution multiplier.

    So, for example if you take the resolutions and divide their products you get that 1280x960 is 0.9375 of 1280 x 1024.

    You may the set

    r_fboResolution 0.9375

    to achieve a downscale of that amount.

    See here:

    http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php...ew_in_TDM_2.06
    Last edited by nbohr1more; 17th Jun 2018 at 18:14.

  18. #268
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    That seemed to work (or is it placebo)
    autoexex,cfg
    r_useFBO 1
    r_fboResolution 0.9375
    although I took a snapshot and it is 1280x1024 and FPS shows 75.

    Been tinkering again with Darkmod.cfg and

    seta image_useNormalCompression "0"
    seta image_useCompression "0" give much shorter loading times.

    Also

    seta pm_walkspeed "95"
    seta sensitivity "4"
    seta in_pitchspeed "120"
    seta in_yawspeed "120"

    make the game go smoother more like Thief.

  19. #269
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    That seemed to work (or is it placebo)
    autoexex,cfg
    r_useFBO 1
    r_fboResolution 0.9375
    although I took a snapshot and it is 1280x1024 and FPS shows 75.

    Been tinkering again with Darkmod.cfg and

    seta image_useNormalCompression "0"
    seta image_useCompression "0" give much shorter loading times.

    Also

    seta pm_walkspeed "95"
    seta sensitivity "4"
    seta in_pitchspeed "120"
    seta in_yawspeed "120"

    make the game go smoother more like Thief.
    Good finds. You should try

    tdm_lg_interleave_min 1
    tdm_lg_interleave 3

    and see if things improve further.

    On another note, update 2 of the vertex buffer beta is up:

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-...ex-buffer-beta

    fixes most issues with glass rendering when MSAA is OFF.

    So to summarize:

    1) Provides Real MSAA during FBO mode (nvidia users gain the most benefit here)
    2) Fixes artifact issues with resolution scaling (anything other than r_fboResolution 1)
    3) Has Doom 3 BFG style vertex buffers for better multi-core performance
    4) Includes Intel GLSL fix and the Shadow Softness slider

  20. #270
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    I donīt know what tdm_lg_interleave does but the game runs ok.

    My main issues are now:
    Footsteps: you seem to be walking wearing high heels. Too noisy. Should be like those in Thief.
    Sometimes there is a lag when jumping into water (Volta mission)
    Fog has a banding effect (maybe itīs Nvidia issue only) in Volta mission.
    Many object edges and textures have a flickering effect and look jaggy as if there was no antialiasing. Iīm using 4x A/A and 16x A/F but my res is only 1280. Is that the culprit?

  21. #271
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    I donīt know what tdm_lg_interleave does but the game runs ok.

    My main issues are now:
    Footsteps: you seem to be walking wearing high heels. Too noisy. Should be like those in Thief.
    Volta missions and Shadows of Northdale have custom footsteps, do you prefer either to the default ones?

    Sometimes there is a lag when jumping into water (Volta mission)
    If the water doesn't have murk, you might try disabling "double-vision" to reduce the impact. g_doubleVision 0 alternately, disable post-processing (bloom)

    Fog has a banding effect (maybe itīs Nvidia issue only) in Volta mission.
    Yes, we still need to improve our fog effect. Disabling post-processing may improve this as well.

    Many object edges and textures have a flickering effect and look jaggy as if there was no antialiasing. Iīm using 4x A/A and 16x A/F but my res is only 1280. Is that the culprit?
    Down-scaling in FBO may not be ideal here. One thing I recommend that you try is running at Native Resolution but use FXAA in your Nvidia drivers rather than 4x AA in-game.

  22. #272
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    No, with FXAA instead of in-game screen settings the objects look very, very jaggy.
    With the in-game settings the quality is much better.
    It is the contour of objects such as lamps, doors, picture frames, etc. Iīm not really worried about this. In general, the game looks great although I think that a lot of textures in this game look like plastic or plasticine. More like a cartoonish copy of the supposedly original textures. Too brilliant in colours by default. Something like an excess of light and even colour.
    It must be a matter of taste though.

  23. #273
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    This is what I mean:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmFe...ature=youtu.be

    Go to 13:14. The table on the left of the screen as he reads the scroll. That jaggy horizontal line. Seems to be something inherent to the game engine then.

  24. #274
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by bassoferrol View Post
    This is what I mean:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmFe...ature=youtu.be

    Go to 13:14. The table on the left of the screen as he reads the scroll. That jaggy horizontal line. Seems to be something inherent to the game engine then.
    Hmm.

    It looks like that table is kinda low polygon?

    We made a bunch of assets like that when TDM players struggled to run on high-end hardware back in 2009.
    Some of them have been upgraded but others haven't been touched.

    Unless you're referring to the texture on the table? That might be a low resolution texture.

    If it's truly an AA issue, then it is one of two things there:

    1) In-game AA for TDM 2.06 without the patches I mentioned earlier is just resolution down-scaling and it's not a very good down-scaler.
    We do not recommend using AA with FBO "unless you have the patch".

    2) MSAA is conditional, eg it smooths more or less depending on your grazing angle.

    Please post your Darkmod.cfg

  25. #275
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Yeah, it may all be because of some low polygon textures.
    And am using your new updates.
    Overall the game looks great.
    There goes my darkmod.cfg. Changed lightgem size down to 0.8 and switched back resolution to 1280x1024.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AEW...ew?usp=sharing

    Also, turning round 360 degrees in Thief might take about 200 keystrokes. Thatīs what makes Thief so smooth in the end. Being able to turn yourself around with the cursor keys so softly.
    In TDM it takes more or less 72 key strokes (5 degrees per stroke).
    Also, where to control head bob in dark.cfg?
    Last edited by bassoferrol; 18th Jun 2018 at 18:33.

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