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Thread: Thief Object Enhancement Pack

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    Really strange title. I have written a more appropriate phrase.

  2. #27
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Thief the Ever Changing Title Objects Mod

    but seriously, Thief Object Enhancement Pack was just fine.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Now I'm curious what "Imroved" models are. Are they partially removed? Or possibly something involving roofs?

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    Let it be nickie's title

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    I'm sure Soul Tear didn't intend to imply that this was an update of EP2 but as so many people have read this now and I don't want anyone to be confused, and in the absence of alternative thread titling by Soul Tear, I've changed the title. Better, possibly more accurate, suggestions are sought from illustrious viewers.
    When I saw the current title just now I got the impression that Soul Tear had done what NV already did. My suggestion is to use terms that are completely different than 'Enhancement Pack' maybe something like Next Gen or something that doesn't give the impression that this is not the new version of EP.

    btw the work looks great!

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Soul Tear, do you mind if I include these models in the EP2?

    I might need to make some modifications, particularly to the UV mapping, to try to make them work better with FM custom resources.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    Nameless Voice, yes, that's a good idea. Now I was thinking, why did I make a separate pack? Probably there was some reason, but I do not remember. Well, apparently, it's all about the strong difference of many of my objects from the original ones.
    In fact, it is much more convenient for everyone to have everything in one place. However, there may be problems with textures. Perhaps some things are better not to add or something needs to be changed. Let me know about any problematic objects. Maybe I can do something about it.

    Oh, and yet I hate my covered furniture, it's probably better to remove it. CovVicCushyChair and CovVicCouch are more successful, but the rest is completely useless, these were only small experiments with the physics of cloth.

    There were a few more objects that I have not added to this pack yet. For example, I made an excellent model of a cart.

    By the way, do not forget about torture stocks, racks and new ladders that lie on the Repository. They completely replace all vanilla.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Well, the problem with this pack is that all of the textures have different filenames to the originals, and often very different UV mappings (including some files having multiple different textures in them.)

    The AIs in particular are going to be a big problem, because an AI with custom textures but no custom AI models is one of the most common things to see in FMs.

    I had the idea of making a second version of each model with the UV mapping closer to the originals, then loading them into Substance Painter and getting it to automatically remap the texture file. That should work in theory, but I haven't actually tried it.

    Other ones are harder. I love that new candlestick model, but the original one just uses the same texture as the gold goblets. Applying that texture to goblets will probably look wrong, but remaking the model to use its own texture will potentially break FMs with custom candlesticks.

    A good test is to see if the model still properly without the new textures being present (e.g. it should fall back to using the original low-fi assets).


    It would probably take the original model files and a lot of work to make these changes.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    Probably do not make sense to add these AIs to EP, there were some experiments, not very successful. It's better to upload them to the Repository.

    As for the candle, I just change the material and the name of the texture. BTW I also planned to create new goblets with new textures.

    NV, just let me know all your wishes about these models, and gradually this can be fixed.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Basically, the textures / UV mappings need to be adjusted so that the new models will work with the original textures if the new textures are not present.

    So, for example, in Vichaij1.bin (the blue Victorian chair), the original object uses a number of different textures (blseat1.gif, blseat2.gif, blseat3.gif, tabtoj.gif, tablegj2.gif), while your new model simply uses one, stulvictd.png.

    The idea would be to split out the parts of your new texture to map to those original textures, and then to adjust the model to also use all of those original textures in roughly the same places as the originals.

    As I said, that's sort of a rule for the EP models, mostly because I want replacement textures from FMs to be able to slot into the new models just as they would have slotted into the old models, in the cases where someone included only a custom texture but not a custom model.
    There are occasions where I've broken that rule in my models, where the old model didn't give me the opportunity to really make the replacement using the same UV setup, but I tried to keep those to a minimum where possible. The EP flash bomb model comes to mind as an example of an object where I broke the rule.

    I haven't looked at every single model in this pack, but it looks like at least most of them don't follow this paradigm. I'd like to have them changed if possible.

  11. #36
    Basically, the textures / UV mappings need to be adjusted so that the new models will work with the original textures if the new textures are not present.

    So, for example, in Vichaij1.bin (the blue Victorian chair), the original object uses a number of different textures (blseat1.gif, blseat2.gif, blseat3.gif, tabtoj.gif, tablegj2.gif), while your new model simply uses one, stulvictd.png.
    That would be a big mistake, just in terms of making models for any realtime engine. You should always try to keep the number of textures/materials per model to a minimum, and if possible, use the same texture/material for multiple mesh variations. Not only it saves texture memory, multiple textures/materials increase drawcalls and number of triangles per mesh, and that can substatntially decrease performance. Unless you really need different sound definitions for different surfaces of your model, you should stay away from multiple textures and materials for one mesh. Since Soul Tear aims for higher quality of models and textures, using only one UV for that is a good idea. The tradeoff for backwards compatibility is too high.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    I haven't looked at every single model in this pack, but it looks like at least most of them don't follow this paradigm. I'd like to have them changed if possible.
    Texturing is a more complex task than modeling. But most importantly, I just do not see the point. On the example of the Elvis chair: how do you imagine to replace Elvis's UV-map with 5-6 textures from OM? I used the original Elvis's texture and added to it a new layer, I did not have to change the UV-map.

    Maybe it makes sense at a certain viewing angle, but I do not think that somebody has a free time to do such things. I play with my objects all FMs and I like most of them.
    I specially combined several old textures into one to work as conveniently as possible. As a rule, in modern games, each model has only one texture, an exception can be for character models. I always try to move along the path of maximum efficiency and usefulness and I also plan to use my models in TDM - this engine does not like multitexturing.
    I believe that we should keep pace with the times, rather than worship the old traditions, which are mostly explained by the technical restrictions of those years, and not an artistic plan.

    I suggest you and other people think about what old models from both Thieves you would like to see in the new view.

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