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Thread: So I finished Thief for the second time...

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Estonia

    So I finished Thief for the second time...

    Hi, guys. This may be my first post here, but I’ve been a Thief fan since 1999 and I’ve visited these forums for years now. Thanks to you guys I’ve discovered the NewDark patch to run Thief on current-gen systems so that I can experience these games all over again.

    I first ran into Thief I think in early 1999 when a gaming magazine I used to buy had it on the cover and I was immediately curious. I downloaded the demo and... whoo boy! I still remember the experience to this day. It was so immersive and terrifying, I had never experienced that kind of gameplay and rich, immersive soundscapes, ever. Just walking around Bafford’s manor was horrifying. I was so afraid that somebody heard me after each step I took. It was literally one step forward and two steps back for quite some time. And if I thought that first level was tense – after I got the full game and reached Cragscleft – oh christ.

    I remember playing it in the summer of 1999. It was beautiful, warm and sunny outside, but it was very annoying for me, because I couldn’t see the game . I played on normal difficulty as I recall and I have no idea how I finished some of those missions, I was terrified all the damn time. And when I DID finish it – boy. That feeling of tension and release when the final cutscene played – I remember it vividly, it was breathtaking. I actually felt I accomplised something real. Those memories will stay with me always.

    I got Thief II around autumn 2000 and enjoyed it immensely as well. And boy, whas I relieved when I saw there were practically no zombies and especially haunts in that game! I bought Thief: DS immediately upon release and well... like many of you, the clunky movement and split levels disappointed me, I don’t think I finished it on my first try. But years later, after all the patching the community had made to the interface and such, I really did enjoy it and played it through.

    When I read around here that a lot of you have played through those games countless of times, I can only ask – how . Especially Dark Project left me so drained by the end that although I cherish the memories, I couldn’t literally pick the game up for years! And well... life also intervened and I didn’t play a lot of games for a good long while.

    But about a month or so ago I thought – I’ve been thinking of replaying the first game for so long, let’s just do it again, for the first time since 1999! Back then, Thief Gold was not released yet, but now I have a boxed copy, I have all those sweet texture packs you guys have made – a perfect time to jump in again.

    And so, I started playing after work and on weekends, sporadically. Of course the game is not as terrifying for me as it was back then (older, wiser blabla), but it’s still tense and I very much still enjoyed the sneaking around in the shadows and stealing stuff. Well – from humans, anyway. When dealing with humans, I very much try to not be seen and steal everything from under their noses, taking my time. When it comes to the undead – all those self-imposed „ghosting” rules I’ve been applying to myself go pretty much out the window. I dont do the hardcore ghosting I’ve read people do (I don’t care if I don’t get all the loot; I don’t return the keys; if a guard hears me, but thinks it’s „just rats”, it’s fine by me etc). But zombies – I have no problem if they see me, I’ll just run away. Burricks – I tend not to kill them, but a good whomp with a blackjack or a few arrows so that they don’t die but run away, whimpering – no big deal there either. I hate spiders, so I tend to kill them as well.

    Anyway, here are my thoughts on the levels (all played on expert).

    Bafford’s – a classic, of course, and the one I’ve played the most and still enjoy. A quintessential Thief experience. That ambient music that kicks in when you emerge from the sewers and enter the cellar is so good... and also that „hah, it’s a throne room” line. Classic.

    Cragscleft Prison – I really like the level design – starting from the mines and working your way up to the prison and then to the factory and the barracks above. And whoo boy, the sound design in the prison was terrifying. All those agonizing screams of pain and anguish really got to me. A very enjoyable mission. I like the hammers as well, all their mythos and design.

    Bonehoard – well. A slight downer, that one. I see a lot of people really liking it, that Indiana Jones-like feeling of seeking out treasures from forgotten temples and such. And I liked that part of it, sure. But since I don’t care for the zombies and all those other creatures that populate this level – that part made me bored, really. Except for that fiery ghost thing, he was awesome. I was legitimately spooked when I encountered it, didn't remember it at all. Of course I then found out that he didn't exist in the original Thief . Overall I'd call this level a "mixed bag" for me.

    Assassins – this was a good one. Sneaking after those two taffers and robbing Ramirez’ mansion afterwards was really enjoyable. The mansion could have been a bit bigger, and I understand that it initially was, but they had to scale it back due to engine constraints. Overall, another really enjoyable mission.

    Thieves Guild – Whoo boy, do I ever agree with those who say that the layout is monotone and confusing. I like the start, I like the houses of the two guild leaders, but the rest – christ, was I ever lost. I tried to make use of the map, but I still had no idea where I was most of the time. I checked my savegames – it took me 4 HOURS of gametime to beat this! And I tell you – when I got to one house after much trudging around and realized I had to get a key from ANOTHER house somewhere – aagh. I saved, quit and had a relaxing cigarette before continuing .

    The Sword – Ugh. I know a lot of you have this one pegged as one of the best missions in the game, but yeah. My sense of direction sucks, in real life and in games, so I got very lost and annoyed by the end. Maybe it wouldn’t have been so bad, but the loot requirement on Expert was such that I simply could not find that final bit for a long time and just ran around, all frustrated. Eventually, that last bit I needed was on a guard guarding the mansion’s front gate. Had I pickpocketed him right at the start, maybe it wouldn’t have been so bad. There are a lot of good things about this level, don’t get me wrong. I like a lot of the weirdness and the atmosphere is great (that giggle is SO creepy). And I really enjoyed the solution I found for getting the sword. I found this little alcove in the upper floor that had this weird thing sticking out of the ceiling and a hole below it, through which you could see the sword floating below. I flung a broadhead into that thing and whatta ya know – the sword fell down to the bottom of that pedestal thing it was hanging over. Of course it made quite a racket, so I reloaded, shot a moss arrow down to the floor and then „released” the sword. Took me a few tries, but eventually the guards didn’t notice and I could just go to the bottom floor, climb onto the podium and grab the sword. No need to even visit that higher floor with taffload of guards and tile floors. Boy, did I feel accomplished . None of the walkthroughs and let’s plays I looked at afterwards didn’t do it that way, I wonder – why not? Anyway. Overall – I think if I hadn’t have had so much trouble getting all the loot, I would have enjoyed it more. Oh – and Little Big World was awesome! I didn’t know that if I missed it all those years ago or what, didn’t remember it at all. Only afterwards I read that it was a Thief Gold exclusive thing.

    The Haunted Cathedral – yeah. Didn’t enjoy that one all that much. You know, undead and all that. Again - they don't terrify me (anymore), I mostly just get bored dodging them. Overall atmosphere didn’t grab me either. I didn’t want to turn on the lights, because well – less shadows to move around in, but that meant it was all SO dark, I could barely see a thing . Maybe if I had turned on the lights, I’d have enjoyed it more?

    Mage Towers – Have to say I really liked this one. The mages are not all that interesting enemies and their „one-liners” while walking about are pretty cheesy, but level design was great and I got through all the tower puzzles without much trouble. The platform jumping bits were annoying, but at least they were brief. A very enjoyable mission. Oh, and I got a giggle out of that mage dude who marches up and down the main stairway, imagining how tired he must be after a few trips, heh heh.

    Lost City – that one I enjoyed a surprising amout, I must say. The map was surprisingly helpful, I felt like I knew where I was going most of the time, didn’t have the feeling of being confused or lost much. And I remember that in TDP there were these Craymen (or was it Bugbeasts) around and they gave me the creeps bigtime. I’m really glad they were replaced with mages for Thief Gold.

    Caverns – at the start, I got ready for another of those weird creature missions and at the beginning that’s exactly what it was. I gritted my teeth and thought – let’s just grind my way through this. But then, suddenly I get to this opera house filled with PEOPLE! And the level just got a whole lot better . A disappointing start, but it got fantastic at the opera house and I was really glad this level was included with Thief Gold.

    Undercover – yeah. This is a weird one. I didn’t usually watch any let’s plays beforehand, but I did it with this, a bit. Just to see how the hell do people ghost this level? And I found out pretty quickly that well – they can’t . Maybe I shouldn’t have read that before getting too deep into the level, and maybe I’ll try it again with a different playstyle, but what I did was this – instead of sneaking around the hammerites, knocking out only the necessary guards and having this Benny Hill-style chase afterwards, why not just blackjack all of them? Think about it – when I whack them all out and then get the Talisman – they wouldn’t know who did it, they would just sleep through it. I just thought that in terms of stealth, this would actually be a lot better approach, since they would just wake up afterwards with a headache and no talisman, instead of them all knowing exactly who stole it and running around after you. It made the level pretty easy, I’ll admit that. And also – this level looks taffing gorgeous with the HD mod installed!

    Return to the Cathedral – that level I remember vividly from long ago. I was so terrified! But to my surprise – I wasn’t this time. Tense, sure, but those haunts didn’t get much reaction from me. Mainly it was just annoyance at dealing with the undead. Again. I remembered reading years ago that there was this way of finishing this mission quickly and I briefly even considered finding out how, but decided against it and went for the full experience. And I’m glad I did. Even though I didn’t much care for all the undead, the level design itself is great and I didn’t even mind Murus’ fetch quests all that much. Although it was infuriating how vague his instructions sometimes were, in regards to where to find all that stuff. Except for the last thing he wanted. When he said to kill all the haunts, I grinned from ear to ear and went to work . I really laughed when I managed to whack out four of them in that St. Something where you had to make a holy symbol. They just waltzed right in there one by one and all I had to do was give them a good bonk on the head with a sword. And also I was wondering - when playing TDP on normal, did you also have to kill all the haunts? I faintly remember searching for all that other stuff Murus wanted, but I don't remember having to kill the haunts at all? Is it a Thief Gold thing? Or an expert difficulty thing? Or perhaps I simply don't remember that bit?

    Escape – blah. Blah, I say. From playing it years ago, I remember it being confusing as hell and very frustrating. I don’t remember how did I ever got through this one, being as terrified as I was all the time. And this time – still confusing as hell and very frustrating. My first attempt was to run like hell past all those weirdos and hope to get through. Which I sort of managed after a taffload of quicksave-quickloads, but then there was this requirement to find out more about Constantine. Crap! So I reloaded from the start and took things more carefully. Not ghosting as such, I really don’t care to ghost around all these weirdos, but basically just stealth kills. Whacking those apedudes to the head with a sword/blackjack, mainly. Took longer, but i muddled through. Boy was I relieved when I reached the first level of the mansion. Actual doors! Stairs! Floors! You know, people stuff!

    Bedfellows – I enjoyed it more than I thought, actually, especially from that point onwards where the hammerites ask to get their high priest back. It was actually cool to sneak behind all those monkeyboys as they mumbled about their fires. A short mission as well, that helped. And I was surprised that I didn’t remember one single bit about this mission from my first playthrough. Probably blended together with Escape, with all that anxiety and stuff. Also – it was during this level I really started to think that the „fog” effect, probably enabled after I installed NewDark – messes with the levels. Starting with Escape, the fog was all over the place and although it looked good most of the time, sometimes it made things downright weird. That weird room that I think was supposed to be in space – it was all white!. I disabled the fog halfway through Bedfellows and it was SO much better after that. I thought at one point that all the latter levels (Escape, Bedfellows) take place at daylight. And also – what the taff is up with that bugbeast killing requirement? If you blackjack one, even if you get damaged by one – immediate extra requirement to kill all of them. Really? I tried very hard to avoid that

    Maw of chaos – not too bad, actually. Linear and short, sure, but looked good. I remember the Constatine endfight being more of a challenge first time round, messing with rope arrows and such. This time, I just stood at the entrance, ran to the Eye when Constantine had his back turned, switched, ran back to the entrance and waited for the end.

    Whew. Overall game time – 31 hours. Helluva first post, I know . But I really wanted to share this with you all. The Thief series really means so much to me. When someone asks me what my favorite game is, I reply „Thief”. Somewhat weird, considering I only just finished my second playthrough . But it’s just so intense of an experience, I can’t play it very often because of that. And no game has made me feel this way, ever. I haven’t bought the newest one, even though it’s like 5 euros on Steam now. Maybe if it drops to like 99 cents I give it a go. But for now, I think I stick to the first three.

    And I think I’ll start with Thief II soon!
    Last edited by abacab; 4th Jan 2018 at 12:44.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: Minnesota

    Ah, sweet nostalgia. My first experience with Thief was the Thieves Guild demo. I was so peeved when the demo ended just as I was getting into the deeper basements. I was a kid then, so my greatest pleasure was being able to knock everyone out and play with the various arrow types.

    Pity about your experience with the undead levels though. When I first played Cragscleft, I was terrified of going through the mines. Scared me to death when the first zombie stood up in front of me! Then when I got to Bonehoard, I was so freaked out about the burricks that I shot them all one by one from that high green cave mouth in the large cavern. And don't even get me started on the Cathedral levels...

    Of course, now the undead don't freak me out as much, but the haunted levels are still a thrill, especially with the Ultimate Difficulty Mod which makes the zombies way faster.

    I still consider Thief far greater than most modern games that have come out in the past twenty years. My immersion isn't affected by old graphics because the physics, the ai, and the story make is so enjoyable. I love the freedom of choice you have in thwarting ai, instead of "shoot this enemy and run to the next section".

    Glad you shared your Thief experience with us. It is a grand game.

  3. #3
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Estonia
    About the first time I played Cragscleft and Bonehoard - as far as I recall, my experience was about the same the first time . That is - I was terrified. And I'm pretty sure I jumped from my chair when that first zombie stood up in front of me in the prison level! And oh god, the haunts, the haunts...

    And yeah. Being so much older and "mature" or whatever now, I still get tense during the undead levels, but not terrified anymore. I read about the Ultimate Difficulty Mod... maybe I'll give that a go sometime, just to see if it helps to get that terror back

    It is indeed a grand game, a grand series in fact . I have played a fair amount of games and no other has had me hooked so much as the Thief series has. Dishonored is pretty close, though. I missed the first System Shock, but played the second around when it was released and boy - that was also a very memorable and terrifying playthrough for me .

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    If you now try Iron Manning it can put a different spin on some levels. For instance I could take or leave Escape! as a level but like Iron Manning it. One of the most satisfying levels when I finally cracked that challenge.

    On another note, just discovered quite by an accidental key press when writing this post, that you can bold/italisice your word just by pressing cntl + B or I and whithout the buttons. Who knew.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: Denmark
    Me and my 2 friends from primary school got the Bafford demo off a game magazine demo CD in 99 (PC Player - A danish magazine now discontinued)...
    We played that (reduced) first level what feels like a million times just soaking up all the atmosphere in complete awe... Those were the times!
    We were around 13-14 at the time, and I remember the quirky english combined with english not being our native language, left us both fascinated but also at times confused... For instance we for some reason struggled for a while with figuring out what the eye was telling us in the Haunted cathedral "Comes a man to rescue me... poor man..." etc. etc.), in the end you have to stand on some pedestal and shoot a fire arrow at a statue... pretty simple - but not back then
    T2 is where I really fell in love with the game... Same great gameplay, less undead, super cool fractions and lore, great plot, I literally can't find a bad thing to say about that game.... I recently joined this forum and got into playing T2 fan missions for the first time - 17 years later... Still having a blast... Amazing!

  6. #6
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Estonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    If you now try Iron Manning it can put a different spin on some levels. For instance I could take or leave Escape! as a level but like Iron Manning it. One of the most satisfying levels when I finally cracked that challenge.
    Hmm. Does "iron manning" mean no saving while playing? Yes, I see how that would be challenging . But Escape? Oh christ . I don't know if I have the nerves to try that without saving

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommyph1208 View Post
    Me and my 2 friends from primary school got the Bafford demo off a game magazine demo CD in 99 (PC Player - A danish magazine now discontinued)...
    We played that (reduced) first level what feels like a million times just soaking up all the atmosphere in complete awe... Those were the times!
    We were around 13-14 at the time, and I remember the quirky english combined with english not being our native language, left us both fascinated but also at times confused... For instance we for some reason struggled for a while with figuring out what the eye was telling us in the Haunted cathedral "Comes a man to rescue me... poor man..." etc. etc.), in the end you have to stand on some pedestal and shoot a fire arrow at a statue... pretty simple - but not back then
    T2 is where I really fell in love with the game... Same great gameplay, less undead, super cool fractions and lore, great plot, I literally can't find a bad thing to say about that game.... I recently joined this forum and got into playing T2 fan missions for the first time - 17 years later... Still having a blast... Amazing!
    My first taste of Thief was a Finnish gaming magazine. There were no demo disks with it, but there was a review and after reading it, I really wanted to try the game. So I downloaded the Thief 1 demo from the internet, I remember. Being on dial-up it took a while . I also played it with a friend sometimes, he was I think just as freaked out as I was. But yes, the atmosphere was amazing and I was hooked right there and then. Still am . And I literally have no clue how I managed to beat the entire game back in '99. I think I was around 16 at the time. I understood English pretty well by that point, but the terror and tension really got to me, I must have ran around like a headless chicken half the time

    Haven't tried any fan missions yet, but I'll definitely give Thief 2X a go once I finish Thief 2 again.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: Denmark
    Quote Originally Posted by abacab View Post
    I also played it with a friend sometimes, he was I think just as freaked out as I was.
    Thief 1 and 2 are some of, if not THE, best spectator games I have played/watched... I think maybe just as much because of how and when me and my friends went through the games that way... We are still friends today, and I am actually playing and discussing fan missions with one of them.... I dunno, that experience and those memories have just stuck with me...

    Quote Originally Posted by abacab View Post
    Haven't tried any fan missions yet, but I'll definitely give Thief 2X a go once I finish Thief 2 again.
    I am really surprised by how much new value FMs have brought to the game for me... Going in I wasn't sure that it would captivate me, as I mostly expected new level layouts and stories using existing mechanics and assets... Boy was I surprised... The Thief feel and backbone gameplay is still there in all the FMs I've played so far, but a lot of them have also introduced a ton of new assets, mechanics and gameplay... All while staying very true to the Thief world and style... And then there is the fact that most of these missions have had an insane amount of love, care and man hours poured into them by some insanely talented people. The original game production never allowed for the team to spend years on each mission and hardware and engine capabilities at the time also limited what was doable.
    But seriously... Play something like the two CoSaS missions, especially the second one, "MissionX", and be prepared be be blown away... Anyways, I don't want to highjack your thread with FM discussions
    Last edited by Tommyph1208; 5th Jan 2018 at 02:31.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2014
    Pro-tip on how to not get lost, make use of your compass and don't be afraid to drop items to use as landmarks / a bread crumb trail. It's especially useful in the Thieves Guild sewers.

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    On another note, just discovered quite by an accidental key press when writing this post, that you can bold/italisice your word just by pressing cntl + B or I and whithout the buttons. Who knew.
    Old fogies like me who started using computers long before mice were ever invented.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    Quote Originally Posted by abacab View Post
    I don't remember having to kill the haunts at all? Is it a Thief Gold thing? Or an expert difficulty thing? Or perhaps I simply don't remember that bit?
    It's an Expert requirement only.

  11. #11
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Estonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommyph1208 View Post
    But seriously... Play something like the two CoSaS missions, especially the second one, "MissionX", and be prepared be be blown away... Anyways, I don't want to highjack your thread with FM discussions
    Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely try those

    Quote Originally Posted by TannisRoot View Post
    Pro-tip on how to not get lost, make use of your compass and don't be afraid to drop items to use as landmarks / a bread crumb trail. It's especially useful in the Thieves Guild sewers.
    On most maps I kinda knew where I was most of the time, but yeah, Sword and Guild were... yeah . I know that Sword didn't really have a map as such, but what frustrated me the most about Guild was that the map didn't really seem to correspond with the actual level . But the breadcrumb thing - do you mean basically to grab every loose thing you find on the level and using that as kind of a makeshift "trail"?

    Quote Originally Posted by R Soul View Post
    It's an Expert requirement only.
    Gotcha . In that case the 16-year old me was eternally grateful that he chose to play on normal. If he was forced to kill all the haunts back then, he would have had a seizure, probably
    Last edited by abacab; 5th Jan 2018 at 23:29.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Wisconsin
    Quote Originally Posted by abacab View Post
    what frustrated me the most about Guild was that the map didn't really seem to correspond with the actual level .
    Actually, once you've learned the layout of the sewers, the in-game map matches the terrain pretty well. IMO, the problem with the "Thieves' Guild" map is twofold:

    1) The map is split up amongst too many pages, and they don't do a good job of explaining how each page connects to one another (especially with the lower sewer and the south basement).
    2) For most of the mission, the automap only highlights which map page you're on, rather than specifying which room or section you're in. It's difficult to match the features around you with the features on the map when you're not sure where on the map you are (looking at you again, lower sewer and south basement).

    The second point is true of the other two Gold missions as well (maybe LGS didn't have time for more in-depth automaps when working on TG?), but at least MageKeep and the Opera House weren't sprawling mazes like the Downwind Thieves' Guild.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2011
    The Baltic invasion of TTLG continues.

    Imagine that console gamers didn't get to experience anything like Thief for years until the first Splinter Cell game, and the closest they got to Thief was Dishonored a decade and a half after Thief.

  14. #14
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Estonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandmauden View Post
    Actually, once you've learned the layout of the sewers, the in-game map matches the terrain pretty well. IMO, the problem with the "Thieves' Guild" map is twofold:

    1) The map is split up amongst too many pages, and they don't do a good job of explaining how each page connects to one another (especially with the lower sewer and the south basement).
    2) For most of the mission, the automap only highlights which map page you're on, rather than specifying which room or section you're in. It's difficult to match the features around you with the features on the map when you're not sure where on the map you are (looking at you again, lower sewer and south basement).

    The second point is true of the other two Gold missions as well (maybe LGS didn't have time for more in-depth automaps when working on TG?), but at least MageKeep and the Opera House weren't sprawling mazes like the Downwind Thieves' Guild.
    I'd agree to that. I remember reaching points where the map screen would change from one to the other and thought "OK, so I must be around here, but then walking around a bit and the real game didn't seem to match up, so I really had trouble pinpointing exactly where I was on the map. I had no real trouble like that on the other Gold levels, as you said they were not nearly as maze-like as Guild. But yeah, I'll try the "breadcrumb" approach the next time I play it .

    Quote Originally Posted by zajazd View Post
    The Baltic invasion of TTLG continues.

    Imagine that console gamers didn't get to experience anything like Thief for years until the first Splinter Cell game, and the closest they got to Thief was Dishonored a decade and a half after Thief.
    Heh heh, "Baltic invasion" . You have noticed an increasing number of users from the Baltics around here then?

    As far as console stealth games go - yeah, seems about right . But Thief was close to having a console port, wasn't it? I understand that the source code the NewDark engine is based on came from a DreamCast dev version of Thief?

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by abacab View Post
    Heh heh, "Baltic invasion" . You have noticed an increasing number of users from the Baltics around here then?

    As far as console stealth games go - yeah, seems about right . But Thief was close to having a console port, wasn't it? I understand that the source code the NewDark engine is based on came from a DreamCast dev version of Thief?
    Yes, I'm Latvian and another user by the name of Kristijonas from Lithuania was active lately.

    I didn't know that Thief had a possible console version, I always thought it would be cool if Thief was ported to consoles. When I learned in 2012 that Deus Ex has a PS2 version, at first I thought it was a joke, but turned out it exists and plays really good despite the limitations of the PS2.

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Estonia
    Quote Originally Posted by zajazd View Post
    Yes, I'm Latvian and another user by the name of Kristijonas from Lithuania was active lately.

    I didn't know that Thief had a possible console version, I always thought it would be cool if Thief was ported to consoles. When I learned in 2012 that Deus Ex has a PS2 version, at first I thought it was a joke, but turned out it exists and plays really good despite the limitations of the PS2.
    Cool, nice to meet you

    But yeah, someone stumbled upon a hard drive containing the source code for SS2 and Thief 2 meant for the Dreamcast. Obviously it's only speculative if NewDark is based off of that, but I'd reckon it is . Here's a linky:
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132035

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    Location: Tartu, Estonia
    Glad to see a fellow Estonian enjoying Thief as much as everybody else here! Tsau!

  18. #18
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Estonia
    Quote Originally Posted by zil View Post
    Glad to see a fellow Estonian enjoying Thief as much as everybody else here! Tsau!
    Indeed it is, tere-tere . I have some gamer friends, but I don't think any of them appreciate the Thief games that much. One of them said that he enjoyed the 2014 "reboot". Now, I haven't played it, so I don't want to say "but it sucks, so boo", but nothing I have read about it makes me want to play it either

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