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Thread: Reason to make Fan missions for T1/G?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2017
    Location: Germany

    Reason to make Fan missions for T1/G?

    Hi,

    i mean isn't Thief 2 the technically more refined and all around superior game? Why stick to T1/G for fan missions?

    Regards,

    Soccorro

  2. #2
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    I bet this has been asked quadrillion times.
    They do T1/TG missions since they want a special athmosphere.
    T2 isn't superior to T1/TG. With NewDark, it's the same engine, but different gamesys. Even most of the custom scripts are working, so authors can do whatever they want.

  3. #3
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    the reason to make or do pretty much anything is because it's fun. fun doesn't have to make sense.


  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
    Well I honestly prefer Thief Gold over Thief 2 and because there simply aren't enough Thief Gold FM's. But there's really no difference and it's only really a matter of preference and the majority prefers T2. I think I've asked the same question before except it was why there aren't as many Thief Gold FM authors

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2016
    Location: Blundering through the shadows
    Perhaps it's to make use of TG's Super Jump(TM).

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by McTaffer View Post
    Perhaps it's to make use of TG's Super Jump(TM).
    Stick jump_speed_boost 1.4 in your T2 cam.cfg and boom! It's back in.

  7. #7
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Because Thief 1 is better.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2014
    Atmosphere in T1 is so much better, more oppressive, dark and sinister.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2014
    I'm also in the camp that prefers T1 style missions over T2.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Beyond boundaries of Magia
    I'm the one strange fellow, who'd rather play T1 styled FM in T2 (like Disorientation), than a T1/G FM.

    However, I don't mind playing both games' FMs
    Last edited by Zoro; 3rd Nov 2017 at 20:28.

  11. #11
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Since almost everyone plays T1 via NewDark these days (which means it's basically running in the T2 engine), and any unique assets from T1 can be imported into T2, there is literally no rational reason anymore to develop T1 missions. Those who continue to do so are just engaging in mental masturbation.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Preferences are 'rational' if they are complete and transitive. That is, give me any A and B, and I can tell you which I prefer (indifference and conditional preferences are a-ok). Furthermore, if in a given state, I prefer A to B, and B to C, then in that state I also prefer A to C. There is no notion that these preferences must be grounded in something fundamental in order for them to be 'rational.' Completeness and transitivity makes them rational, by definition. Therefore, "I work with T1 rather than T2 because I prefer T1 to T2" does not violate the principle of rationality.

    But, if you want to ground it in some fundamentals that make more sense to you, here you go:
    Importing unique assets from T2 into T1 requires a non-zero amount of incremental costly effort. Most people [rationally] prefer to avoid unnecessary costly effort, so they choose to work in T1 to make their lives easier.

    Keep in mind, you could make your exact same argument the other way around: "T1 and T2 are both just NewDark. Why does anyone still use T2? Don't they know it's no longer superior? What idiots! Anyone who continues to use T2 is being totally irrational, there's literally no reason for it." This argument is logically equivalent to yours.

    The only difference is that most *players* find T2 to be more convenient (simply due to path dependency; prior to NewDark, T2 was more stable, so most FMs were made for T2). Ultimately, someone will bear a cost. Either authors bear the [arguably quite small] cost of importing assets, or players bear the [definitely very small] cost of maintaining two separate FM folders. It's not remotely irrational for FM authors to choose to shift the cost onto someone else. This is perhaps the most rational thing a person can do.
    Last edited by trefoilknot; 12th Nov 2017 at 10:01.

  13. #13
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    Since almost everyone plays T1 via NewDark these days (which means it's basically running in the T2 engine), and any unique assets from T1 can be imported into T2, there is literally no rational reason anymore to develop T1 missions. Those who continue to do so are just engaging in mental masturbation.
    So, what's the advantage of creating a T1 mission in T2? If T1 is using the same engine, and you can save yourself the trouble of importing assets or a gamesys, why not just make it in T1 in the first place?

    The only reason I can think of is because maybe more people own Thief 2, but I have no idea if that's actually true.

  14. #14
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    These days with NewDark it just comes down to which set of assets you want to be stock, and which dark.gam you want to start from. You can port assets either way for those not in the one you choose to work in.

  15. #15
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    That's what I thought, but ZB makes it sound like everything should be made for T2 ("no rational reason anymore to develop T1 missions"). I'm wondering why he thinks that.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    To be honest, I don't believe he actually thinks that. I'm guessing he just figured it'd offend people---seems to be his MO. If he actually had any justification, I'm sure he would have responded to my rebuttal with some snarky quip. He's rarely one to pass up an opportunity to demonstrate his right-ness. His silence speaks volumes.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    T1 has a wonderful dark grittiness to its graphics that T2 lacks. I think it's the lower bit depth

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Location: ���&#5671
    TBP/TG ambiant is based on gamma while T2 is based on luminosity, hence the better atmosphere with lights.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: Santiago / Chile
    also, HD enhancement pack for T1/Gold is way better than T2 one. it looks incredible.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: Deutschland/Germany

    ... 'cause T1-Garrett can jump and run sooo fast ...
    My FM campaigns Garrett's Young Years XTra, Reunion With Basso
    Want your upcoming FM translated in foreign languages?

  21. #21
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Provided Scripts are also different.
    There is a usefull script I love to use in TG that don't exist in T2 "Watchme", any human AI will create a AIWatchObj link to the objet when it is created.
    So less work and pain to make special effects or original mecanics. This one being contained in gen.osm from TG, you cannot import it in T2 at the risk of creating severe scripts conflicts. I think this is a good reason to work with TG instead of T2.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    That can be done in T2, but the FM forum shouldn't be used for technical discussions.

  23. #23
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Squadarofl View Post
    TBP/TG ambiant is based on gamma while T2 is based on luminosity, hence the better atmosphere with lights.
    What the hell are you babbling about?

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