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Thread: pan_range 3000?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements

    pan_range 3000?

    I found these schemas in AMB_M08.SCH. I think I understand everything except the "pan_range 3000". I didn't find anything about "pan_range" in The Dromesday Book or in The Dark Wiki. Does anyone know for sure what it is for? I think it causes each sound file to play for a specified amount of time before switching to the next sound. But I'm not certain how it works with the poly_loop (or mono_loop) parms.

    Code:
    //CICADS
    schema m08cicads
    archetype AMB_M08
    poly_loop 2 4000 6000
    delay 3000
    pan_range 3000
    volume -3200
    cicad1 cicad2 cicad3 cicad4
    
    //WIND
    schema m08wind
    archetype AMB_M08
    poly_loop 2 3500 4500
    pan_range 2500
    volume -2400
    wind1 wind2 wind3

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Toronto
    Pretty sure that just defines how far left or right the sound will play. Good for random wind sounds or creaking wood etc.

    The min/max time between sounds is specified in the polyloop or monoloop.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I think the Min / Max in poly_loop and mono_loop is how long a delay after finishing one sound and before looping again with another of the sound files. The pan_range value looks like a time value, not a distance value, and if small enough with a poly_loop seems to be what allows overlapping sounds. I think it is how long a sound plays before allowing another sound to play at the same time. At least that how it sounds to me when I play with it. It doesn't seem to effect direction at all ...

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Location: São Paulo
    Up. I did not found anything about too. Same for "stream", in AMB_M02 (thief2) and "samples" (didnt remember where).

    archetype AMB_M02
    delay 90000
    stream
    no_repeat
    mono_loop 60000 90000
    volume -1300
    swells1 swells2

    Anyone knows how these tags works?

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    The term pan is used in the old vhs movies that were basically wide screen converted to full screen. They called this process pan & scan where the image the viewer would see would move left to right within the wide screen area. In the case of Thief and what was mentioned in another recent thread I would think that the sound is panning from left to right and back again. The value might indicate how long it takes to pan from one channel to the other. I believe the pan_range would be useful only with environmental ambients.

  6. #6
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Nope, pan_range doesn't cause the sounds to pan left and right while they play, nor does it work with environmental ambients which are stereo files (or at least shouldn't generally be used with them). If you look in the schemas like for Bafford's in T1, it's used on the sound effects which have poly_loop mostly that play ambient noises, and the pan_range causes them to vary between left and right speaker. If pan_range is 0 or unspecified, the sounds will always play in the center. Smaller values like 500-1000 will cause them to vary between slightly to left or right, and larger values like 2000-3000 will allow them to go further to either side. But it's a range, so those sounds can sometimes play near or at the center also. So a pan_range of 2000 means the sound can be played anywhere on the range of (-2000, 2000) where 0 is center channel, but it doesn't move while playing, it's that each sample will be played randomly in the pan_range.

    There is also a parameter called just pan which forces the sound to play from exactly that position, where negative values are to the left. Look at this pair of schemas from The Sword:

    //PUFFY
    schema m06puffyL
    archetype AMB_M06
    mono_loop 0 0
    pan -2500
    volume -1200
    puffy

    schema m06puffyR
    archetype AMB_M06
    delay 50
    mono_loop 0 0
    pan 2500
    volume -1200
    puffy
    These use the same sound file played panned 2500 to the left and right both, but the right channel is delayed 50 msec, which causes a sort of stereo chorus effect when they are played simultaneously. Pretty clever of LGS.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    Yandros, how did you know?!!
    Copied post to my DromedDocs folder.
    Maybe you can also finally explain the difference between mono_loop and poly_loop?
    And the bonus question. There was a bug in old Dark Engine - can't remember in Thief I, II or both: the first file from the list in schemas didn't play at all, so if you use more than one file in single schema, you had to repeat the firs one twice. Example:

    ...
    sound1
    sound2
    sound3

    - you will never hear sound1. To avoid that, you have to write:

    ...
    sound1
    sound1
    sound2
    sound3

    And the question is: was it true or myth, and is it still actual under New Dark?

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    I'll have to find some examples but it's late now... With headphones on I heard ambients move back and forth. They would have to be environmental ambients because non-environmental ambients are generated from a fixed location where the ambient hack marker is located.

  9. #9
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    My bad, you're right John, this would apply to environmental ambient usage, although in this case the WAV files would likely be mono, which I guess confused my addled brain. As for hearing the panning during the play of a single sound, you're likely right there too and I just never noticed it with pan_range. I'll check it out tonight.

    Zontik, mono_loop typically means a single sound file. Most often the delays are set to 0 0 which means a seamless loop, but you can also put in non-zero min and max delays for a sound that just plays every so often, but never overlaps or uses other sound files. poly_loop differs as it usually has multiple sound files listed and they can overlap. If I'm not mistaken, the first time value is the minimum delay before another sample is played, so if it is shorter than some of the samples, there can be overlap. I'm pretty sure the extra number between poly_loop and the min/max delays is the maximum number of samples that can be played simultaneously, but I've never done testing to verify that.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Location: São Paulo
    Is there a list of all the possible schema parameters and it`s explanations?

    Some of them I did`nt found anything about. Ex: Stream, priority, samples....

    Same for flags in AmbientHacked ("synch" seems to be something very helpful, but no idea how it works).

    Thanks!!

    1º EDIT: I did some testing and realized the following: "Stream" causes two audio files to alternate over and over, as if it were a two-part loop.
    It does not work with "poly_loop" or "mono_loop 0 0". The "first file bug" applies. It is almost always ignored in the row.
    Last edited by leconbras; 26th Jan 2018 at 21:34.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Russ I was racking my brain trying to figure out why the puffy schemas worked the way they do as I used it in my last mission in the courtyard where the zombie conversation takes place... then I noticed that the m06puffyL and m06puffyR use the PAN parameter instead of PAN_RANGE. The PAN parameter basically holds the sound at a place left or right of center and keeps it there. The ambient that I was thinking of is m05wind where the wind slowly moves from left to right and back again. I never really looked closely enough to noticed that the PAN parameter was different than PAN_RANGE until now.

  12. #12
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Yep. And great find, leconbras! I had no idea about stream.

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