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Thread: Alien: Covenant

  1. #326
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    I went to see this movie in the cinema, but this last supper scene didn't appear, why?
    Possibly because the captain's flashbacks (James Franco) fell to the scissors. http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1661...ch-larger-role

    //Thinking about it, the party only starts when he leaves. So it's probably not one of his flashbacks.
    Last edited by Kolya; 20th Jun 2017 at 17:56.

  2. #327
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    They also had another prologue focusing on David and Shaw. These prologues were basically plot teasers, getting you excited about what happens next. Perhaps there was an earlier cut of the film that included them.

    I never saw that scene either, maybe they will be included in special editions for DVD/blueRay

  3. #328
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Thank you kolya, the movie was well rated:

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alien_covenant/

    , but im seeing here alot of people unsatisfied with this movie


    "prometheus" was much better for me, i really loved it saw it 4 times and im not the type of person to repeat movies.
    Last edited by Cardia; 22nd Jun 2017 at 16:22.

  4. #329
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    You're not going to get a lot of Prometheus support here either. Most folks here didn't like it, or downright hated it.

  5. #330
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    Thank you kolya, the mive was well rated:

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alien_covenant/
    You can't really conclude from the Rotten Tomatoes rating that a movie was well rated. It just looks at whether a review was favourable overall or not, but 'favourable' can also mean that the reviewer said, "I was surprised by not hating the film as much as its predecessor. Even though the film as such isn't particularly good, it's definitely an improvement."

  6. #331
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Either way, I wouldn't consider 70% to be "well rated." That's average at best.

  7. #332
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    RottenTomatoes displays the average rating right under the TomatoMeter. It's got 6.4/10 for 'Covenant, which is (A) pretty mediocre and (B) about what you'd expect for a 71% - the averages are almost always more moderate than the TM. You can also see the audience ratings; hilariously, 'Covenant's audience ratings are lower than the new Transformers (which has a 17% TM and 3.3/10 critic average).

  8. #333
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    In the end critics (professional or not) don't mean much. I've watched loads of films that had worse Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB values than this. And I still had a good time.
    So if you liked Prometheus: Good for you, rock on. It's not a terrible movie and had I seen it under different circumstances I might have enjoyed it a lot more.

  9. #334
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Prometheus definitely seems better after watching covenant. At least it seemed like Ridley gave a shit about how the engineers looked on film.

  10. #335
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    What Kolya said. I'm not a fan, but if you like the Promethenant reworkings, that's totally okay and you don't need anyone to validate your opinion.

  11. #336
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Or for any movie or game for that matter.

    I really enjoyed the movie "We Are Your Friends" which everyone else seems to hate, and that's fine. Each to their own.

  12. #337
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    When i saw "Prometheus" in a big cinema screen i got amazed with the big landscapes introduced in the beginning of the movie, very beautiful , even throughout the film we get the chance to see impressive scenarios, and the soundtrack is also very good which helps to increase the suspense and the importance of the place the characters are exploring, the story about these creatures who are supposedly man kind creators is also very interesting. this first contact between humans and the creatures from this planet is very well done in this movie.

    As for Alien covenant i got disappointed that Shaw was not present, and the presence of the famous alien creature we know from previous movies was somehow short in this chapter, also there are too many characters that didn't help us audience to get used or attached to them , but overall this movie was entertainment...but then entertainment doesn't mean positive for some people, right?

    I think the deception expressed here comes probably from the expectation that many people made for this movie.

    what if this movie was not american, would rotten tomatoes present a lower score? can critic reviewers get paid to give high scores and positive feedback? In any case Rotten tomatoes is usually a site where score is not most of the times very generous, because we have the audience , the critics and top critics score, for me i like to check a movie score on rotten tomatoes because usually the critic and top critics review goes along with my taste, rarely happens when i don't like a movie that is well rated. and i normally don't waste my time with movies that have negative score , because i know by experience its very likely i won't enjoy it.

    As for imdb site, im not sure how reliable this site is, because the scores displayed there comes from only by the public.

  13. #338
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    Eh, there have been better movies about first contact. But if it's visuals you're after, yeah, Scott's pretty much world-class when it comes to that.

    As far as RT scores are concerned, obviously reviewers can get paid to give high scores. That's a moral issue regardless of which country the movie's from. However, there is no data for this, and obviously, there won't be. The more direct thing to note is that the scores are non-weighted averages, so unless you only have a few reviews, it's hard to swing the score one way or the other. Hollywood releases generally have higher visibility and tend to garner more attention than most, so you usually have more reviewers paying attention; consequently it's going to be harder to pay a large swathe of critics to swing a score than a smaller release from elsewhere.

  14. #339
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Thank you Sulphur, that makes some things clear.

  15. #340
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    Alright, I'm a hopeless fanboy so I'm going to keep talking about it.

    I was intrigued by the novelisation by Alan Dean Foster, so I thought, since I can't ever seem to get enough Alien, I'll go ahead and read his books. So I read the novelisations of Alien - Alien 3. They were mostly what you'd expect with just a few bits dialogue or a couple of extra scenes that would have been amazing to see on film. They followed the special editions of each of the movies though, which I found interesting. It took over 10 years between Alien 3 and the Quadrilogy being released before anybody saw the whole story, but if you had read the book you'd know all about how crazy Golic was and all that.

    Other notable scenes in the books are when Dallas is taken by the alien. It was playing cat and mouse with him a bit more in an open area of the ventilation system where he was walking on a gantry instead of stuck in the vents like in the movie. Also, Parker saw the alien when he was on the lower deck getting refills for the flame throwers. He got Ripley and Lambert to close the inner airlock door so they could blow it into space, but Ash was listening and sounded the alarm, startling the alien before they could surprise it by closing the door. It lost its arm when it jumped back and the airlock closed on it, which melted through when it ripped its arm off to retreat, and the entire deck almost completely lost atmosphere. This necessitated their need for haste because the ship didn't have enough oxygen for them to remain awake and out of cryo for much longer.

    There was the scene we've heard about that never made it into production where Ripley finds Burke in the nest when she's looking for newt. She gives him a grenade and leaves him.

    In Alien 3, while Ripley, Aaron, and Dillon are looking around for a good spot to trap the alien, she actually comes face to face with its molted skin. Panics and clubs it with a torch. In the movie, this scene is combined with the scene where she tracks it down to goad it into killing her, except in the book it wasn't her imagination. It was an actual molt, not a pipe. That was pretty interesting.

    She also talks with Dillon and Aaron about the lifecycle of the alien, specifically getting into the difference between a gestated queen leading eventually to egg laying verses a single xeno doing the work to create eggs all on its own. Which makes the implied life cycle in Alien: Isolation rather easy to understand, even if they don't talk about it. Honestly, Creative assembly was just preying on our pre-conceptions based on the movies. I'm sure if they spent that much time crafting Sevastapol, they must have gone through and read these novels as well.

    I haven't yet read the Alien Resurrection novel, it was written by A.C. Cripsin instead of Foster. I wasn't as interested in it, but I will read it because the last books of hers I read were the Han Solo Trilogy, and I know shes a bit of a celebrated sci fi author. But I figured it wasn't really crucial for me to read while trying to figure out the plot holes and inconsistencies in Covenant.

    So... I read the covenant novel, and it was pretty good, and some of the conversations David has with Orem and Walter are a lot more interesting than they were in the movie. I'm not spoiler tagging the rest of the post so if you haven't seen the movie, this will spoil the reveals for you.

    After killing the Neomorph, Orem keeps David at constant gunpoint until the facehugger grabs him, but during the scene in David's labratory there are a lot more things and specimens than ever get shown in the movie. David explains that the pathogen constantly adapts to everything it touches, and that the organisms it creates continue to adapt and infect new life forms so that every new generation is a new leap in genetic alteration. So the little bugs he shows are very similar to the xenos, but they just haven't gone through all of the stages of infecting larger life forms to give rise to larger creatures. It kind of stops there while David tosses an ossified version of a facehugger egg about the size of a softball at Orem to tease him, because Orem breaks his bead on david with his rifle to catch it. Then he shows him a fully ossified facehugger egg with the face hugger perserved inside of it, stating that it got too aggressive for him to study so he had to euthanize it. He claims that he actually had nothing to do with the development of the xeno because he hasn't had the time or technology available to be as good at it as the engineers, but that he did dabble a bit in messing with them. Then he shows Orem the larger preserved specimens at the back of his lab, which, according to the descriptions in the novel, must be full grown xenomorph warriors. So Orem saw them even before being lured into the egg chamber.

    When they go down there, David gives him some sort of ointment to spread under his nose because the atmosphere in the egg chamber had a lot of ammonia in it, and it was supposed to help with the smell. Once Orem finally decides to put it under his nose, his thoughts talk about how not only did it completely neutralize the smell, but also gave him a tremendous sense of well being. I think David drugged him, which is why he was so stupid with curiosity in the egg chamber. David also tells him that compared to the ossified egg in the lab, the ones down in the chamber were dormant and hibernating. Orem even accuses him of being immune to whatever they might want to do because he's an android, and David tells him that the ointment masks his presence from the aliens, obviously lying.

    That whole sequence was a lot more interesting to read than to watch.

    When Orem gives birth, David observes how violently the alien emerges, and he figures it's because human bodies are so much smaller than the Engineers' bodies, so the eruption is a lot more violent.

    What I think happened, based on the novel. Is that David did not create the xenos at all. But he did experiment on them. I think that perhaps there were no living specimens, even that the engineers had been working on, just whatever David might have found in the lab. What he DID do, was work with the little bugs. Maybe allowing them to infect other bugs until he got a large enough specimen that matched what the Engineers had done to create the Xeno. I think that if David did anything at all, he simply helped the Xenos come to their full size through the evolution of the bugs that the pathogen infected and created. OR, that whatever tinkering he did, made it so that the xenos don't need to advance through so many stages and so many small organism to get to their full size. Whatever the case. David has the only living specimens of Xenos, and while he did not engineer them, he did bring them to life somehow with what was left on the planet. Either from the very few insect like fauna that survived the pathogen, or from what the Engineers left behind.

    It's a much more satisfying story than what we saw in the movie.

    I also don't think the Neomorphs are more robust than the Xenos, I think they're just smaller and harder to shoot at. Not to mention the firearms the Covenenat crews are using are not pulse rifles. Pulse rifles would not have been developed yet, and they have both armor piercing and explosive tipped ammunition. In the novel Daniels manages to pump a whole magazine in to the Alien, including shooting it in the skull.
    Before that, when David was running out to the lifter after assuming Walter's identity, he pumps the alien with about 2 full magazines from one of their carbines before it collapses on the ground right in front of him. Of course it gets up about a minute later to continue the fight with Daniels as they are trying to lift off. In the novel, it dies because the crane's loader shears it in half with the big bucket on the end of the armature.

    Consequently, the 2 neomorphs that we see in the movie, one is killed by Orem after some very level headed and well places shots at point blank range with relatively few rounds. And the other is eviscerated by the Xeno in the big courtyard as they both try to get to the lander while chasing Daniels. This is right before David/Walter empites the gun on it, without killing it.

    I make no excuses for Brandywine or Ridley for giving us a movie full of holes. I don't think it should be on the fans to fill in the blanks by going through some sort of extended universe of mixed media releases, But having read through these books, and watching some extended production BTS bits on the DVDs and Blu Rays... The alien universe still makes a bit of sense to me. I'm still not a fan of how damn fast the xeno bursts, or how fast it grows in recent movies. But I think in Covenant they just do a really bad job of showing us just how much time they spent in the necropolis.

    I've read somewhere that the definition of a nerd is somebody who concerns themselves with all of the minutiae of their fandom. I guess I'm a hopeless nerd fanboy.

  16. #341
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Ridley Scott Teases That Ripley May Return For Alien Sequels Via De-Aging

    http://www.spoilerfreemoviesleuth.co...at-ripley.html

  17. #342
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    Geez Ridley, I'm a fan of yours, but give it a rest, really.

  18. #343
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    We may need a word for old director's creating inferior prequels to their early success films. Lucassing it?

  19. #344
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Yeah, I guess he set the precedent. Ridley is definitely lucassing the shit out of this right now. Maybe hicks grandfather can turn up as well.

  20. #345
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    What the heck does he mean by "but Ripley's going to be someone's daughter?" I can only throw out a guess that he's going to introduce Ripley's mother at some point, and that somehow Ripley being on the Nostromo is not random but an intentional move by Weyland-Yutani.

    He's in dangerous territory now. The prequels as a whole can flop, and fans won't really care that much. But you start messing with the origins of the original Alien, and I'm sure there will be some serious backlash.

  21. #346
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    And VA - There was no egg morphing in Alien Isolation. That was argued out across numerous pages last time round. They went with the standard egg laying treatment. Egg morphing isn't cannon. As you see when you play the game, they went the usual route with people stuck to walls, eggs placed nearby, egg hatches and facehugger goes onto human etc etc. All quite clear and present.

    The back story was that there was a Queen but they didn't want to show it, because then players would have been disappointed that they didn't get to fight it.

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