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Thread: HD Mod Stuttering

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: May 2015

    HD Mod Stuttering

    I've noticed some stuttering in Thief gold patched with the latest Tfix and Hd mod. It seems to be independent of framerate and resolution which leads me to believe that it is simply an engine limitation.
    I've seen similar issues with the old Elder Scrolls games, one solution is to use a ramdisk.

    Another potential solution would be for the mod author to release a 1/2 resolution version of the texture pack, as they would still be far above the resolution of the original game textures.

  2. #2
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Well alrighty then.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by mikjames View Post
    I've noticed some stuttering in Thief gold patched with the latest Tfix and Hd mod. It seems to be independent of framerate and resolution which leads me to believe that it is simply an engine limitation.
    I've seen similar issues with the old Elder Scrolls games, one solution is to use a ramdisk.

    Another potential solution would be for the mod author to release a 1/2 resolution version of the texture pack, as they would still be far above the resolution of the original game textures.
    Try this not-so-heavy mod for Thief Gold with some changes and see if things get any better:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byh...ew?usp=sharing

  4. #4
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    NecroAge pack should offer better performance while still being hd, see the TFix topic for a link.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: Germany
    The HD mod requires a lot of graphic and CPU power! For sure more than NecroAge mod. Maybe i will release a low res version of the HD mod in the future. I'm not sure about it.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Hmm, I'll try the game on a ram disk and track cpu vs gpu utilization. Should give an idea of where the bottleneck is. A lot of these older engines just don't have efficient methods in place for streaming in textures, particularly of such a massive size. Could be gpu/cpu related but it could just be fetching things from the hard drive as well.
    Not a huge fan of the way gamma and contrast are handled in NecroAge. The post processing settings in Hd mod really bring new life to the game.

  7. #7
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    post processing is a NewDark feature, not dependent on hdmod.

  8. #8
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Speaking of bottlenecks. What's your system specs? Video card, CPU, RAM, OS.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    Speaking of bottlenecks. What's your system specs? Video card, CPU, RAM, OS.
    gtx980
    core i5 4670
    16g ddr3
    win 10

    As far as I can tell though it isn't related to video memory nor the amount of ram, as the stuttering is resolution independent. The engine likely can't utilize any large amount of ram properly, which is where the ram disk would come in handy, but I'm not so sure that is the main issue. Now that I think of it, this could also be a matter of the added visual effects bottlenecking performance. If it were a texture issue you would think the stuttering would be more consistent.

    My best guess is the visual effects added by HD Mod are entirely cpu dependent, and I would also hazard a guess that the game only sees 1 core. With the inefficient rendering of a 17 year old game engine I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to push the cpu utilization over the limit. I suppose I could overclock.
    If Necroage isn't using any specialized visual fx that could also explain why it runs better, though it's been awhile since I've used it.
    You have an amazing vision here Gecko, I can imagine the limitations the engine is presenting. Heavy fx usage may just be impractical in Dark Engine.
    Last edited by mikjames; 19th Mar 2017 at 09:06.

  10. #10
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    edit cam_ext.cfg (in the root folder) like this
    ; multisampletype 8
    d3d_disp_limit_gpu_frames 1

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    edit cam_ext.cfg (in the root folder) like this
    ; multisampletype 8
    d3d_disp_limit_gpu_frames 1
    Did you not read my post above?
    Multisampling is already disabled, frame limiting doesn't fix an underlying performance issue. This issue is resolution/graphical setting independent, it is not a gpu bottleneck.

    My guess is that this is entirely cpu related, hardware anti-aliasing done in Dx9 (Newdark) and other post-processing effects will not significantly tax modern graphics hardware. Cpus on the other hand are only around 3-5 times faster on a single core than those available in 2000, it isn't that difficult to overload a cpu with inefficient software rendered graphical effects. Newdark may have updated the graphics api to better utilize modern shader based graphics hardware, but I'm not aware of any significant gains cpu side.

    I should also clarify that I'm the type to try and run everything at 60 fps with triple buffering vsync for as low latency an experience as possible. So what I generally find acceptable might be a cut above what many are happy with. I'm stock clocked at 3.3 ghz on a 4670k, so I have a bit of headroom for an overclock.
    Last edited by mikjames; 19th Mar 2017 at 11:32.

  12. #12
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by mikjames View Post
    This issue is resolution/graphical setting independent, it is not a gpu bottleneck.
    There were some more users complaining about framerate issues with gtx980, so this may be a specific problem with this, the drivers or win 10. I've installed HD Mod and I don't see any stuttering. I've a core 7 cpu, but also an old AMD video card. This mod also takes a lot of RAM, so you might try Large Address Aware.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    There were some more users complaining about framerate issues with gtx980, so this may be a specific problem with this, the drivers or win 10. I've installed HD Mod and I don't see any stuttering. I've a core 7 cpu, but also an old AMD video card. This mod also takes a lot of RAM, so you might try Large Address Aware.
    Hmm, that's something. Guess it's as good a time as any for a gpu upgrade.

  14. #14
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Large Address Aware is a setting in NewDark that you can enable.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: Germany
    Thief 2 HD mod v1.0 Installer setup will have this option (like T1 HD mod 1.2) at the end of the installation.

    What is LAA (Large Address Aware):

    Problem:
    Game or DromEd is running out or close to run out of memory (i.e.
    process uses between 1.5GB and 2GB memory. Especially noticable when
    using hires texture packs or FMs with loats of hires textures.


    Solution:
    * If you have 3GB or more system memory you can try to patch the
    EXE file to enable Large Address Aware, to allow the process to
    use more than 2GB memory.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
    Thief 2 HD mod v1.0 Installer setup will have this option (like T1 HD mod 1.2) at the end of the installation.

    What is LAA (Large Address Aware):

    Problem:
    Game or DromEd is running out or close to run out of memory (i.e.
    process uses between 1.5GB and 2GB memory. Especially noticable when
    using hires texture packs or FMs with loats of hires textures.


    Solution:
    * If you have 3GB or more system memory you can try to patch the
    EXE file to enable Large Address Aware, to allow the process to
    use more than 2GB memory.
    No, this is not the problem in this case, and the LAA patch is already enabled on my setup. If that were the problem though it is important to understand that there are limits Gecko, you can't expect a 32bit engine to use more than 4gb ram even with LAA.
    It seems as though you aren't understanding what I have written in previous comments regarding the way Dark Engine handles cpu resources and graphical effects. To clarify, you can push the texture resolution of your mod as high as you like until you hit that 4gb hard engine limit, but graphical effects such as lighting or particles is going to beat the hell out of the single cpu thread that dark engine can utilize. I hope that is clear enough for you.

    I am willing to accept that this might just be an issue with the Gtx 980 as another user mentioned, but I don't have the inclination to swap out gpus at this time, so this will have to remain unsolved for now. If it isn't an issue with the 980 then I would very much suspect you are simply pushing the Graphical effects to far Gecko. Texture resolution will consume memory, graphical effects will consume cpu power on an engine of this age, because the engine can't access shaders directly. The only thing shaders are useful for in this case is post processing effects.
    I am sorry that the engine is imposing limits on your artistic vision, but it is important to understand the technical side of things in order to keep your mod optimized for an 18 year old engine.

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