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Thread: Updated Mission, Hammer & Garrett, by JIS June 4/06

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment

    Updated Mission, Hammer & Garrett, by JIS June 4/06

    For all you JIS fans, here is an update to his mission Hammer & Garrett.

    http://thiefmissions.com/info.cgi?m=HammerGarrett

    If you like route finding puzzles, this one is for you. Below are some comments on the mission. Have fun.

    -------------

    Hammer & Garrett FINAL
    file: hg_final_a.zip
    Thief Gold

    Notes by Peter Smith (smithpd at TTLG)

    This is the final version of Hammer and Garrett for Thief Gold by JIS. If you are a JIS fan, as I am, you will enjoy this one.

    This is a tricky mission with lots of nice atmosphere and variety. There is only one illegible objective, which could mean "get to the end." Exploration and false leads are ends in themselves. Finding new territory is the main problem to solve. You have solved it when you have gone everywhere.

    H & G is like elevator in its design principles -- a large map with lots of exploration to do. It is not quite so difficult or scary as elevator. There seem to be fewer keys and switches, but there are enough of these to keep you occupied. Like elevator, there are some semi-secret ways to get between sections of the mission that can have you hunting for quite a while. If you make it through without hints you will be a more persistent player than I am.

    I think the mission would be improved by adding more loot and some additional objectives. You will know you are getting warm if you can steal these two objects:
    the eye
    the keeper's medallion

  2. #2
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Souderton, PA
    this one seems a little different than the old version. did anyone figure out how to get past the part with the
    spoiler:
    talisman holder

    or
    spoiler:
    open door the looks like an elevator (says 1 2 3 above it and has 3 buttons beside it)
    Last edited by Diznavis; 5th Jun 2006 at 22:12.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Diznavis,

    The talisman holder is the most difficult puzzle of the mission, IMO. It is a lock that needs a special key called the Orz key to open it. That special key is found in a secret passage. The entrance to the secret passage is opened using
    spoiler:
    the Hammer's key on a lock found under a statue.
    The entrance is located behind a banner. Post back if you need more direct hints of where these things are.

    As for the elevator door, that cannot be opened. One of several blind alleys.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Franconia, Germany
    Partially a tough, but very interessting FM.
    Took me some time and hints from an old thread to find the way through, and now i got the medaillon, the sword and the eye. Now i roamed again and again through all rooms back to the start, but found no use for the "keeper key".
    Where is the statue, i should look for ?
    OK. Found it. Its in a small courtyard in a small pooll near the start

    And i need a talisman The one i see is out of reach. It gave me some equipment, though

    Where can i use the Orz-key ? Stupid me! The answer is so close !!!

    Hey, finally finished, but 50 short of loot...
    Thanks for not helping me , t'was more fun finding out by myself
    This FM didn't let me go until i found the goal. Liked the puzzles and foes alot.
    Will check the other japananese FMs again soon. I think, i skipped some of them too early, because of their strange style. But now, i get the taste

    Big thanks to JIS for this release.
    Last edited by UliB; 6th Jun 2006 at 16:26.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Yes, I was 50 short of loot myself. OK, you loot hounds, is it there or not?

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Texas
    I got to the part where the
    spoiler:
    haunts
    first show up, and not being able to avoid them, and given no weapons to fight with, I decided to come back to this later.

  7. #7
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Totally stuck

    I bypassed the medallion the brings the haunts for the moment; instead, I went and got the sword.

    spoiler:
    I escaped the fire elementals, got back, went through the new door, flipped a switch, entered a room that caused burricks to appear, dropped down a long hole into some water, eventually got to where there was a really tough haunt, killed him and the ghost and the two zombies beyond, got the eye, then went through the other corridor, climbed a ladder, and eventually found myself in a room just behind a door from a room off the corridor that has the old-fashioned camera/watcher.


    I know where I am; but I can't get the door open. There is a parchment in there which I cannot frob (that's true of every parchment I've found so far: not frobbable, at least for me). If that's supposed to open the door, then I don't know what to do.

    I can't go back the way I came, because I dropped down a long hole to get here.

    How do I get that door open? Or is there another way out from here? And should I be able to frob those readables?

    Thanks,

    Dafydd

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Franconia, Germany
    @ Dafydd: I hope, i can help you: Standing near that note, look up and find a button

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Dafydd,

    Your description is a little confusing to me, especially the part about "the other corridor, climbed a ladder." If I understand where you are, I don't think there is a ladder there. Regardless, you must first find this place:



    The way out of this area is:
    spoiler:
    Stand on the parchment and look up.


    None of the parchments can be frobbed. Apparently JIS got some negative feedback at some point about providing only Japanese texts. He had no way to translate them, so he eliminated all texts. There is no Books folder. Too bad, because someone here could have translated them.

    Edit: UliB beat me to it. More detail may help someone.

  10. #10
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Thanks, UliB and Peter; I got a little further:

    spoiler:
    I killed both of the haunts (no need to use a flashbomb; the archer can be lured close enough to do the "lean and knockout" trick, and the other one can't hit me when I'm perched on the wall... I just kept poking him with my sword until he went "ouch, I'm dead!")

    But I didn't find any second key on the table in the gazebo. I'd already gotten a key there earlier (Ancient Key? Third Key?) which opened the lock inside, I think.


    On the plus side, I haven't lost any health and I haven't had to use but one water arrow (to open the secret door by dousing the torch).

    Anyway, I have a couple of dead haunts here; and I'm carrying the Eye, the scroll, and the Keeper medallion. I don't have a First Key or any other besides Second, Third, and Ancient. I still can't open the lock on the back of the statue near the start... and I have no idea where to go from here.

    This is a very confusing mission....

    Dafydd

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Franconia, Germany
    @ Dafydd: The first key is not important. You can find it near statue with lock, above church door and it opens the double church-doors

    For the statue-lock, you need the keeper key. Remember seeing a dead person on the floor with flies around. Go and check him.

    After opening that lock, look out for a talisman and check that buiding very closely. The keeper key opens also another door.

  12. #12
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Thanks for the help, guys; I finished -- 50 short, like everybody else -- but the hardest thing was figuring out that the stupid Orz key unlocked the talisman holder; I kept looking for a talisman!

    Typical JIS. I sort of liked the elevator mission; this one just kept annoying me.

    But it's finished, and I do appreciate the help. Thanks again!

    Dafydd

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Baton Rouge, LA.
    Smithpd,

    I'm outside the room of the picture you posted. How do I get in there? I can't get past the double doors where the lady is locked in. I'm playing on normal. Also, how can I open the picture that highlights in the room where I had to open with water arrow? Where is my sword? Can you give me some clues???

    Thanxs,

    Hope Vincent
    Last edited by Hope Vincent; 8th Jun 2006 at 11:15.

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd
    None of the parchments can be frobbed. Apparently JIS got some negative feedback at some point about providing only Japanese texts. He had no way to translate them, so he eliminated all texts. There is no Books folder. Too bad, because someone here could have translated them.
    I've been quietly translating all of JIS's readables all this while ... (but have to pause while I study for the bar exam). Is there an older version where I can get the texts? I can just stick the scrolls back into this version when I'm finished, how does that sound? Have to talk to JIS about it, too, maybe.

  15. #15
    Thiefmissions.com
    Moderator

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Houston, Tx., USA
    I have not removed the old version from thiefmissions.com; it should show up as an additional file under the new version.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by Hope Vincent
    I'm outside the room of the picture you posted. How do I get in there?
    spoiler:
    Is there a locked door between the room you are in and the chapel in the picture? If so, then that is just a view, and you have a very long route around. To explain it in detail would be to provide a walkthrough.

    I can't get past the double doors where the lady is locked in. I'm playing on normal.
    spoiler:
    I don't remember exactly, but you can find a key in some remote place.
    I got stumped by that for a while, even in the second playing.
    Also, how can I open the picture that highlights in the room where I had to open with water arrow? Where is my sword? Can you give me some clues???
    spoiler:
    There is a frobbable book nearby.
    That also took me a while to find.
    Thanxs,

    Hope Vincent

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by epithumia
    I have not removed the old version from thiefmissions.com; it should show up as an additional file under the new version.
    I just loaded the old version and found a books folder, so there is promise. Thanks for keeping the old one, Jason.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue
    I've been quietly translating all of JIS's readables all this while ... (but have to pause while I study for the bar exam). Is there an older version where I can get the texts? I can just stick the scrolls back into this version when I'm finished, how does that sound? Have to talk to JIS about it, too, maybe.
    As noted above, the old version has a books folder. Maybe that is sufficient. I am sure JIS would not mind small additions and improvements, especially if it restores his intent. Vlad Midnight and I have done it before, with permission, with Mineshock. Send me an e-mail or PM with your e-mail address, and I'll e-mail you back and put you in touch with JIS. Being able to communicate with JIS directly in Japanese should be a big help.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Baton Rouge, LA.
    Smithpd,

    I finally finished after I frobbed that picture until I got the key to those double doors. It was hell before and after that. I didn't have much life left so I left my eye there after I killed the first haunt. I enjoyed this fm, but I can easily say it is the hardest one ever. I didn't really understand the ending???

    Thanxs,

    Hope Vincent

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Texas
    Alright - somebody needs to make a walkthrough for this one - you guys are all talking about places I haven't even been too - and I've gotten all the way to the ungazi pai (keeper medallion) that summons the haunts!

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Sorry, I don't do walkthroughs, and I don't read them. I prefer to suffer. Or seek advice on specific problems. Anyone else?

    Actually, taffedinthehead, you have gone a long ways, and a little persistence should suffice to finish it. Feel free to pose detailed questions.
    Last edited by smithpd; 17th Jun 2006 at 15:59.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: here in the USA

    Sword?

    I desperately need to find it as I keep getting killed.
    Can someone provide me a clue as to where it is?

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    I don't remember. I'd have to replay the mission to check. I have no time to do that now. I can say that I had to go many places before I found the sword. A lot of sneaking is involved. I remember one place with
    spoiler:
    hammerites at the center of a room and shadows radiating out like spokes.
    I had to sneak around in that area. My earliest save is at 0:46. I did not have it then. My next save is at 2:46, and I had the sword at that point. I guess that I did not have the sword at 2:00.

    Maybe someone else will come to the rescue. I need to play it again and take notes. Maybe I do need to make a walkthrough, to refresh my own memory at least.
    Last edited by smithpd; 17th Jun 2006 at 18:14.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Texas
    Annnnnnnnnnnnnd . . . BANG, it's over! That was weird! All that searching and build-up and that's it!?

    Anyway, once I remembered the key I picked up on the table in the courtyard where the haunts first appear, the rest was pretty easy (relatively speaking) to complete.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Texas
    Bobber - here is some general advice:

    spoiler:
    You pretty much should be able to make your way to where the haunts first appear (triggered by picking up the medalion in the room beneath the well. In that same courtyard there was a key on a table in the middle. Take that key back to the room where you could go any of four directions, and use it on the lock in the gazebo in the middle of the room (next to a switch that opened a different door). After using the key, follow the new door and you should make your way to a lava pit with a raised drawbridge. Keep on heading that direction and you will find some elevators that should lead you to the sword.


    Let me know if I remembered wrong. This level isn't impossible, it just takes ALOT of patience!!

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