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Thread: The Inverted Manse: Undead Thief 2 FM (April 2, 2001)

  1. #201
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Location: yo mama

    Done!
    "Stand back where I can mock thee, villain!"

  2. #202
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Sun Prairie WI 53590

    Inverted Manse stone keepers

    I've tried everything to kill them and cann't,how do I do it?

  3. #203
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: US

    I take it you mean the guardians on warrior mode? Strictly speaking, you don't have to kill them to complete the level, but if you want to:

    Spoiler:
    Heed the words of Ramus: A blade harms not that which is concealed by metal, the powers of the builder are strongest in the air, and fire illuminates that which cannot be seen. It'll probably take some experimenting... but you should find the resources you need to do it in the immediate area.
    =======================
    Designer, Thief 3

    Cult of the Resurrection for Thief 1 and The Inverted Manse for Thief 2 now available for download

    Tutorials:ambient sounds, custom schemas, and beginner's sources and receptrons.

  4. #204
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Sun Prairie WI 53590

    Thanks,I'm not real good at solving puzzles like this but I'll do my best and reload.....

  5. #205
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Location: In the kitchen with the rope.

    Sledge, i have a really big trouble with

    Spoiler:
    the rider
    Spoiler:

  6. #206
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Location: In the kitchen with the rope.

    ARF ARF!!! HOW DOES DAMN SPOILERS WORK???

  7. #207
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    Lurox - When you want to post a spoiler, look at the bottom below the section you type in and you'll see buttons labelled URL, SPOILER, EMAIL, etc. Just click on SPOILER and you'll get two "spoiler" words enclosed in brackets. Just type the stuff you want to hide in between them.

  8. #208
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Location: In the kitchen with the rope.

    Oooohhhh....*with the voice of the stupid guard at the beginning of Bafford*

  9. #209
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Oz

    Spoiler:
    My method was "whack the ghost with your new weapon (oven mitts?), use mine on burrick, and fire arrow on rider and remaining guardian"


    damn good mission, wot?

  10. #210
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Sun Prairie WI 53590

    I don't have any fire arrows and i have spent too much time trying to kill those guardians Sledge could you e-mail me with a little help?This is an awesome mission and this is all I need to do to complete this level!

  11. #211
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: US

    Spoiler:
    You can use your gauntlet on the burrick and rider (kill the burrick first), the sorcerer guy requires something holy, and the invisible guy requires fire.
    =======================
    Designer, Thief 3

    Cult of the Resurrection for Thief 1 and The Inverted Manse for Thief 2 now available for download

    Tutorials:ambient sounds, custom schemas, and beginner's sources and receptrons.

  12. #212
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Sun Prairie WI 53590

    Thanks SLedge,now to look for fire!

  13. #213
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Missouri U.S.A.

    Inverted Manse

    I am about to become very unpopular here but, I have tried to play Inverted Manse several times and find it exceedingly frustrating. It is very well done, what I have seen of it, and is quite probably one of the best constructed fan missions to date but the playability is somewhat lacking. I usually don't have too much trouble with missions but this one is exacerbating. The haunts and zombies are alerted every time I draw that damn glowing sword, give me back the sword from Mystery Man one whack and they were dust. Also what is with Garret when the sword is drawn, all of a sudden it's like I'm walking through syrup I can hardly catch up to a zombie. I also am very disappointed with the puzzle to obtain the weapon in the vault. The puzzles have to be solvable or whats the point? even Sledge admits in a post on these boards that if you don't play all three levels you probably won't solve this puzzle. I have not made it all too far into this mission because of becoming frustrated to often with doors that won't open and can't be picked among other things, but it is nice looking. Maybe I just can't get a grip on this one but it seems that while it is a pretty good mission I don't think it was a gold hammer mission. But that's just my opinion and I will keep trying to finish it. Maybe I'll change my opinion after I make it through.

  14. #214
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster

    Hmmm...Garrett always moves slowly when the sword is drawn, holy or not...

  15. #215
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: PA, USA

    A lot of people hated some really good missions the first time they played them. It's because you're up against some new and unfamiliar challenges.

    The sword really IS useful. You just have to learn how to use it... highlight this text if you want it spoiled. Stand a good bit behind the AI in a place where no other AI are around. The light is what seems to alert them. Raise your sword, then chase after them and let the sword fall on them as soon as possible. It takes some practice and good timing, but once you get the hang of it, 'tis very workable.

  16. #216
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Missouri U.S.A.

    Yes Garrett does move slower with his sword drawn but it seems very slow here. And yes I know you come up from behind with an overhead swing and take out the zombies but I can't hardly catch them with my sword drawn and the light does spoil your attempts to sneak up on a lot of the AI in this mission, the other swordlike apparatus helps but I don't know why the glow of the holy sword was added, it doesn't seem to increase the power of the sword just makes it harder to use. I have played it some more and am making headway but I still have the same few complaints so far and I have noticed a conspicuous lack of some extra arrows (razorhead) and such. Oh and poor little Timmy, at least he wasn't in the well.

  17. #217
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000

    I agree with some of your points, but moreover I wouldn't worry about becoming unpopular by posting stuff like this. These boards would become pretty sad if people felt that they couldn't give their honest opinion. It's not as if you've just said 'it's crap' and then not given any reasons for your dislike.

  18. #218
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    I don't agree with your view of the mission. I found the sword very easy to use, once I figured out how to manage the light from it. I just did my creeping with the sword undrawn, then drew it after I was in position behind the AI. For me, this mission was fun, challenging and original. That is my opinion and you certainly don't need to be afraid to state yours, even if it differs from the majority. You didn't just rant and rave, you stated your views of the mission and why you felt that way, and, in my experience, most FM authors are very open to comments from people who both liked and disliked their missions as long as it is stated clearly, politely and in a constructive manner, which yours was. There have been missions that a lot of people really liked that I wasn't keen on at all. Not everyone likes the same thing and it should be okay to say what you think.

  19. #219
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia

    The usefulness of the sword ought to be demonstrated by the fact that it can kill zombies. I thought the glow was a clever way to balance such a weapon (but I don't think it goes far enough, the ability to kill zombies at all softens a mission like this)
    It's pretty bizarre to dislike a mission because it's very powerful weapons are difficult to use or in short supply. That's generally the idea.

  20. #220
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Missouri U.S.A.

    Dislike may be a bit strong an interpretation of what I said. I have problems with the playability. I agree that weapons should be rationed out, but even on the simplest level, cutpurse in this case, there are very few additional weapons or reloads to be found. This just makes the level, in my opinion, frustrating. If the levels are too difficult to play or the puzzles are too hard to solve players tend to become uninterested because they have to keep trying things over and over and over again and most simply quit and move on to another game. Thats what I am trying to get across here. I have played all the TTDP and TTMA levels and they illustrate to me very good playability, balancing difficulty and acheivability pretty well. I have also played a good deal of fan missions and while some are very good a lot of them simply throw in more guards or more zombies or whatever to make the level harder to play. Or throw in cryptic puzzles that are near impossible to solve. I know that these are not professionals, though some come close like Calendras Cistern and yes Inverted Manse, but the balance is important, to me anyway. In the end though I have to hand it to all the people that have created missions for the Thief games. Where would we be without you, I know I wish I could take the time to learn to make one but I doubt that I will ever get a chance to and I doubt that I could approach the creativity and talents displayed here.

  21. #221
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia

    It's true the vault is a bit of a tease, but it's really not necessary (I can't remember exactly, but I don't think it's an objective on any of the difficulty levels. Maybe on warrior).
    I.M.'s schtick, if you like, is replayability. There's so much new stuff, all of it limited, that you have to make some pretty big commitments each time you play (ie; buying mighty powerful razorheads at the loadout so you don't have to get near haunts too often cuts down your cash pretty severly. Can't blow out quite as many torches). The difficulty levels are vastly different too. It takes quite a bit of experence and experimentation to get the hang of all the options available too you. (you know all this, I'm just blabbing) I guess that's the risk it takes. Some people will persevere, others won't know what's going on and give up.

  22. #222
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: US

    Everyone's of course entitled to their opinion, and I'll be the first to admit the Inverted Manse wasn't perfect, but I'd like to address a couple of things really quickly.

    Originally posted by Sceptre:
    The haunts and zombies are alerted every time I draw that damn glowing sword, give me back the sword from Mystery Man one whack and they were dust.
    No, they're only alerted if they're facing you when you draw it. The idea was, as Muzman says, to balance out the power of the sword with a distinct and unique disadvantage. It allows for combat, but in order to use it, you must be sneaky. One of the biggest complaints in undead missions was that you didn't have a way to deal with zombies... this sword fixes that problem, but also has the disadvantage of revealing you if you're not careful. Ultimately I wanted to encourage sneaking but still allow for different playing styles. I know that it's my mission and I know it backwards and forwards, but I've beaten all three difficulty levels in under 25 mins all loot not being seen once. It can be done. I didn't want to turn this into a mission where hack and slash style was favored on all difficulty levels.


    Also what is with Garret when the sword is drawn, all of a sudden it's like I'm walking through syrup I can hardly catch up to a zombie.


    It sounds like you didn't read the readme which instructs you to check out the arrows.doc file that comes with the zip to learn more about the weapons. The sword is the same as a normal, save for the skin, the glow, the power (greater than a normal sword), and the ability to kill zombies. I never adjusted the player speed.


    I also am very disappointed with the puzzle to obtain the weapon in the vault. The puzzles have to be solvable or whats the point? even Sledge admits in a post on these boards that if you don't play all three levels you probably won't solve this puzzle.


    It sounds like you didn't read the readme *cough*. (copied directly) "There are two clues on how to solve this puzzle on each of the different difficulty levels, and chances are, you won't be able to solve it by only playing through once. Three times is a dead giveaway, and you might be able to solve it going through on two difficulty levels (hats off if you get it on one!). However, this is just an easter egg (and a bit of an anacronysm), so don't feel obligated to get it!" It was never intended to be a part of the mission, but rather an extra cookie for people who played it more than once. A few more perspicacious players actually have solved it in one go though


    I have not made it all too far into this mission because of becoming frustrated to often with doors that won't open and can't be picked among other things.


    There is a bit about this in the readme also: "The difficulty settings are molded not really to give different levels of 'difficulty' per se, but rather to increase re-playability through slight alterations of playing style, areas of accessibility, and objectives. All 3 levels are similar in actual difficulty to complete, and you have the same health in each." A lot of areas are barred off in certain difficulties... but all of the OMs had areas of inaccessibility and locked doors.

    Very surprisingly (and perhaps undeservingly) gold hammer material, as the mission isn't for everyone, but I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. Like any designer, I'm always looking for ways to improve, but perhaps it would help if your criticism was worded in such a way as to be more constructive?
    =======================
    Designer, Thief 3

    Cult of the Resurrection for Thief 1 and The Inverted Manse for Thief 2 now available for download

    Tutorials:ambient sounds, custom schemas, and beginner's sources and receptrons.

  23. #223
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Missouri U.S.A.

    I have played the mission through now and I have to say it is good and the difficulty I had with the sword was gone, with it, when I got the weapon from the church basement. But I swear to you that on several occasions I did sneak up on a haunt and drew my sword and was immediatly attacked. One case that I can remember for sure was in the room where they have the hammers roasting on spits (if you flip the switch, but I wouldn't do that if I were you) there was a haunt beside the metal furnace thing over by the door where the other haunt is that goes up and down the stairs, I crept up behind him just after he turned his back drew my sword and got whacked by a hammer. That one I remember specifically. The puzzle for the weapon(which I did solve just by pure chance). Talk about frustrating. I spent probably 45 minutes trying to solve it in the hopes that it would be something nice to have around. No I did not read the document I never have had any reason to before, my problem. After having read the document I understand now how you have designed your mission not as usual in that you add tougher villians or more of them to increase the difficulty but changing the style of play required to succeed. I have to admit that I am not a sneaker I tend to go through the level and eliminate all of the competition then try to solve and or find whatever objectives remain in peace and quiet. I may play the other levels to see how they go along with the styles but I do have one question. In the room with the collapsed bridge and the wooden roof just begging for a rope arrow can the doors on either end be opened? I spent a good deal of time pushing a barrel back into the room so I could reach my rope only to find that the doors didn't open, frustration sets in. Do they work on another level or am I just wasting my time pushing barrels around? Overall though after playing it through it is quite well done and well worth the time to play. And finally I don't usually post any kind of criticism on any missions unless something is just plain not working and I don't want to offend anyone in doing so but I do believe my criticism to be valid. As for constructive well without criticism good or bad there is nothing to construct on. Those who can do. Those who can't criticize.

    [ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Sceptre ]

  24. #224
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    I asked the question about the collapsed bridge, too, and was told that it is just there to add atmosphere. You can't get up there or open those doors.

  25. #225
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Missouri U.S.A.

    Ah but you can get up there. Shoot a rope arrow into the ceiling then go back to the office where you get the church key, I think, and push one of the barrels down the hall get on top of it and jump to your rope. Like I said it was kind of time consuming but it can be done I guess there just is no point to do it but no way to find out but try.

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