TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 43 of 99 FirstFirst ... 3813182328333839404142434445464748535863687378838893 ... LastLast
Results 1,051 to 1,075 of 2451

Thread: Mapping out The City.

  1. #1051
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Smith
    Less plausible then a three eyed demon using a talking gemstone to destroy civilization :P? Real life laws of geography/physics/whatever don't need to apply in the game
    Yes, it is less plausible and no, we do not, but it will be easier to create a plausible map if we -- in addition to what we know from the game -- use our own reality as a reference. The game is based on our own reality, after all.

  2. #1052
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    The old version with the river-bend.

    The new version without the river-bend.

    The river-bend was due to a piece of deduction, where the location of Shalebridge and it's relation with Newmarket, and Newmarket's relation within the Assassins! -map, and Old Quarter's relation with said map and T3 map defined it's location to be where it is. Check maps from T3 manual, the Assassins! and consider the conversation of the Bafford's servants from T1.
    No known dev comments should exist, simply our work here.

    Atleast in the old version I was thinking of the 'delta' as a set of canal-works that were dug to support the City's water-supplies, much like aqueducts (except that here they were dug into the ground, most likely because of the hillside the City is located in (check cutscenes and intros); perhaps to regulate the flow-speed and because it was cheaper to dig through a few hills, than draw a set of pipes all the way from the mountain atop them).
    In the old map the canals would begin from the first turn downwards, explaining much of the canals seen in Sealed Section, Ambush! and Assassins! (+Pagan Sanctuary).


    And yes, I prefer to think fantasy settings having *add-on* rules of magic, instead of changing any of the existing laws of nature. Otherwise where should we stop manipulating the logic, eh?

  3. #1053
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Well, Dayport doesn't really seem to be a dock district - it's like an area that's been built up from one.
    We don't really see a great deal of Dayport, and what we do see is inland, so it's hard to say one way or the other. If Shalebridge stretches across the river, there is at least the possibility of more industrial activity spreading along the coast. A large City that relies on trade would support quite a large waterfront, certainly more than we see in T3.

    The River bend is a legacy thing. There's no reason for it now. The unnatural flow of the secondary river has been well noted in the past. It might be possible to make a more natural layout, whilst still agreeing with the other map placements, however - as Mugla suggest, a network of canals leading off from the main river would be more reasonable. The main source for it at the moment is the Keeper map, which shows the secondary river running north-west to south-east. The T3 city map shows the main river runing north>south. That's why it looks like that at the moment.

  4. #1054
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: Old Quarter
    well unless the sun rises in the WEST...

  5. #1055
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Ryleth
    Quote Originally Posted by FatherofGarrett
    well unless the sun rises in the WEST...
    Why not? The moon's upsidedown.

  6. #1056
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    As much as the cyclical nature of this all amuses me, we really have made some excellent progress lately and I'd hate to see us lose steam now. The Shalebridge issue is the only major snag at this point, and we've all had time to think this one over. We're kind of dancing around settling the issue, so what do you say to finishing it once and for all?
    Last edited by Doc_Brown; 16th Feb 2006 at 02:00.

  7. #1057
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Indeed.
    Well, I suggest Shalebridge isn't a district at all, just the bridge.
    In the everyday talk though, the neighbourhood surrounding it can be called Shalebridge too.
    This way we wont create fragmentation into the centrum, we wont have to split a district across a river, wont have to create a mini-district, ponder it's birth or explain why it isn't on the T3 map et cetera subconsciousness-nagging issues.

    But no, I dont have any real issues why it couldn't be done the other way. 'Tis just my preference.

    What say you?

  8. #1058
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Yes, works for me I was against the idea of the bridge being the whole thing, that's all.

    Perhaps we need to differentiate between quarters/districts etc with fixed geographical boudaries, and "areas" that people in the City refer to, but which are more organic and flexible in their definition.

    One such area might be Shalebridge ... another might be The Docks, which recently came up.

  9. #1059
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Well, we could do an 'Official City Mappe', made by the city-officials: district lines are drawn clearly for cartographical and land-owning purposes, street names etc. are mentioned. The font is a set-stone stylized one.
    Upon this has someone scrawled, painstakingly, but publing servingly the main land-marks and inofficial quarters/locations (Pagan sanctuary? Shalebridge?). A red pencil used, perhaps with a slight curvature and artistical freedom? Like symbols?

    This would then be neat, if layered to hide/show the inofficial part, so that people can either concentrate on the landscape, and every now and then switch on to check what they are looking at.
    Well, one layer among the many. But does anyone know how to implement that into a website? Would we simply have to have separate .jpegs for each variation, or is there a PHP/Flash thingy that could be integrated into the site?

  10. #1060
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    Like symbols?
    I think I made such layers on this one: http://whitecortex.net/~mikko/thief/mikko_t3_12.psd
    HTH

  11. #1061
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Quite. Except that that one needs some refinement. And how about getting it into a more browser-friendly form?




    Angry wench?

  12. #1062
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    Quite. Except that that one needs some refinement. And how about getting it into a more browser-friendly form?
    Angry wench?
    I can make the "symbols" as separate images, but I don't know how to make layers available to browsers. There is a thing called "Ming swf library", which could pull it off if I really stretch my imagination, but I haven't studied it closely.

    I can't remember where I stumbled upon the name Angry wench, but it's the pub in Auldale, just next to inspector Drepts office.

  13. #1063
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    I thought it might be helpful if we have a visual reference for the solution we're discussing, so I've thrown a little something together--assuming, of course, I understand the suggestion correctly. I also apologize for the fact that it's based off of an older map, so some things (like the Eastport/Dayport debate) remain unchanged.

    Here we go.

    Is that about what you guys had in mind?

    If so, I see a snag right away: the Assassins map references a Shalebridge that is more to the NE. If we move that area down, we've practically wiped out Wayside. With that in mind, I've come up with a rather... unorthodox solution.

    Wild thang.

    You may commence with the deconstruction.

  14. #1064
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    You scared me there, Doc. I think you meant Ambush! instead of Assassins! -map there, right?

    Anyways, dropping Ambush! all the way to the Docks like MorbusG suggests will keep Shalebridge as the lowest one, and bring Crippled B. closer to Rampone's, as per the suggestion from S&R.
    We can draw the district-line through the marketplace, so G. is still in SQ.
    Pulling SB up to be the second was something I believe especially str8g8 supported because of the Fort-logo in the T3 map though, so I'm don't know what others are about this.

    For some reason I can't find said map's link, so I hope these verbal illustrations were enough. As I understand though, the placing will be most tricky.

  15. #1065
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Anyways, dropping Ambush! all the way to the Docks like MorbusG suggests will keep Shalebridge as the lowest one, and bring Crippled B. closer to Rampone's, as per the suggestion from S&R.
    I don't think we can move the Ambush map much further south, without encroaching too much into Wayside, as Doc_Brown says.

    I think that extending the Shalebridge area up and down the banks is a better solution. And in fact, if we do this, then there is no need to move the Shale Bridge or the Cradle at all, as the Ambush note "To Shalebridge" refers to the area, not the actual bridge.

    However, extending the Shalebridge area all the way up to the third bridge might be stretching things a bit, imo. Much better to stop at the second bridge and leave it at that, as it achieves much the same results.

    btw, the Fort Ironwood logo versus Cradle cutscene thing is insoluable, it is just an inconsistency within T3 itself, so we have to go with our gut instinct.

  16. #1066
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Might not be evident at first, but if you try, you can fit it well within the district lines you yourself have been using. The trick is to use the correct scale from the glyphs cutscene and placing the marketplace between the lowest road-fork (where the docks text is). Garrett's home will be on the left side of the octopus-park, the arrows will point along the roads stretching outwards.

    And I did give a solution earlier on the logo-problem; they're hovering above the spots on the map, so that they wont obscure the roads leading to such hot-spots. I know, it will still be a step too high even if placed over the actual text, but then again that just shows the incompetence of the T3 map's maker. (Biasing your views here, beware! )


    But this is once more about the direction we want to stretch the work here, so it doesn't really matter in the end. Or, am I forgetting something again?

  17. #1067
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    I somehow understood that the "logos" are just showing the landmarks situated in that area, ie. not the actual locations. I guess I thought so because all of them are exactly above the area-labels and centered on text.

  18. #1068
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    You scared me there, Doc. I think you meant Ambush! instead of Assassins! -map there, right?
    Hey, I scare me too sometimes. You are correct, sir, I meant Ambush!

    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    Much better to stop at the second bridge and leave it at that, as it achieves much the same results.
    Then I would imagine that this is more to your liking, yes?

    There you go.

    Random sidenote here, but I just gotta say I kind of like the coloring technique I employed here. Seems to imply the borders without explicitly stating them.

    Edit: Just staring at the latest edition, doing a little thinking, and the following occured to me. Mind you I'm branching off into creative territory here and not hard facts, but still...

    Back in the City's early days, the river was not as massive as it was now. In fact, the shallowest part nowadays--surrounded by Shalebridge--was actually dry land back then, built up and populated like any other area. Due to whatever reason, however, the waters rose and flushed it away. What sections remained fell into rot and ruin, which explains the current shape and state of the district today. While the bridges and buildings thereupon were later additions, nonetheless the state of the surrounding district took a similar toll on them as well.

    Consider now the servant's conversation. If the waters were to fall enough for you to walk across Shalebridge, you could theoretically look at rebuilding. A slum district, perhaps once known as the best marketplace in the City, returns to glory and steals the thunder of competitors like, say, New Market.

    Just a thought.
    Last edited by Doc_Brown; 16th Feb 2006 at 19:37.

  19. #1069
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: The Shadows
    Back in the City's early days, the river was not as massive as it was now. In fact, the shallowest part nowadays--surrounded by Shalebridge--was actually dry land back then, built up and populated like any other area. Due to whatever reason, however, the waters rose and flushed it away. What sections remained fell into rot and ruin, which explains the current shape and state of the district today. While the bridges and buildings thereupon were later additions, nonetheless the state of the surrounding district took a similar toll on them as well.

    Consider now the servant's conversation. If the waters were to fall enough for you to walk across Shalebridge, you could theoretically look at rebuilding. A slum district, perhaps once known as the best marketplace in the City, returns to glory and steals the thunder of competitors like, say, New Market.
    That sounds pretty good actually. Say during Thief 2 when the Mechanists were killing a lot of the trees in town...well trees roots work as natural water damn, but with the roots gone, nothing to absorb the water, therefore the river rose. Just adding my creative thought to yours :P

  20. #1070
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    Sealed Section Measurements:



    City Map with some scaled locations and measurements:

    This assumes that the sealed section fits inside the roads circling the area in the north of the city. Scale is base on that alone.





    I don't think Shalebridge would be more than one bridge, it's not called Shalebridges.

    And as for it being on both banks, it would be nice if there were some real life historical districts that were on both banks of a river, just for context. I think a river would be a natural district boundry.


    EDIT: N bridge wrong measurement, should be 900

    EDIT***************
    if images are not available they may be found here:

    http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_the_City

    http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sxerks/

    ******************
    Last edited by Sxerks; 20th Jul 2008 at 19:28. Reason: image locations

  21. #1071
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city

    Most excellent stuff! The longest bridge would be only 44 meters on that scale, which is a lot more bigger scale than on "micromap". Makes me wonder how wide are ships. Also the tunnel to ocean and Markhams island from kidnap is huuuuge.

    I'm getting really thrilled about this!

  22. #1072
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Well, the presumption was that the hook of a road you fit the *whole* SS was supposed to be one of the similiar shaped roads just below THC: Example.
    For another view over the scale, check the T3's ending cutscene; the glyph lits the neighbourhood nicely for some measurements.


    Seriously people, don't be afraid to drop the scale into a tighter package; the City might continue over 6-times bigger outside the T3map. We still have several districts outside of this, and they need some space too. (Edit: Though it seems others are a bit more ready for the bigger scale. Hmm.)


    Doc_Brown, spenger5; Yes, seems quite the theory there boiling. Would the Lost City have much effect on these plottings, do you think?
    Last edited by Mugla; 17th Feb 2006 at 13:22.

  23. #1073
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I like the idea of an inhabited bridge. It fits - Shalebridge Road could be an extension of that; a small area on one side or the other could be the totality of the Shalebridge district (hence the shipping directions for Manny Jabrile). Unless there are actual streets on the bridge, as well... if it's wide enough, a possibility, I suppose.

    Given that the road seems to stretch to the West (and may have a different name on the East side), I'd suggest that the small area encompassing the Shalebridge district be moved to the west side rather than the East.


    Historical reference - London Bridge:



    .j.

  24. #1074
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    My presumption was that roads would be diverted around the Sealed Section.

    I've looked at the T3 glyph cutsceen, and it really isn't helpful for measuring.

    Muglas Scale:




    And the Sealed Section may not even be near that loaction, it might be near the middle bridge instead.

    @MorbusG Don't you mean 440 meters?

    EDIT***************
    if images are not available they may be found here:

    http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_the_City

    http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sxerks/

    ******************
    Last edited by Sxerks; 20th Jul 2008 at 19:29. Reason: imgae locations

  25. #1075
    jtr7
    Guest
    Awright! Thanks again, Sxerks! Your map work is valuable in and of itself, not just within this topic.

Page 43 of 99 FirstFirst ... 3813182328333839404142434445464748535863687378838893 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •