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Thread: Mapping out The City.

  1. #1076
    Humm... Didn't help? Well, I did something along those lines more than a dozen pages back or so. Here's the pic it's based on (this view is inside the road-fork that surrounds South Quarter in T3map).

    Everyone says it's far-fetched to read so into artistical parts of the game, but for me it is always part of the big picture that the game paints about it's world.


    And thanks be to Sxerks, once more! That's the scale I've been thinking of quite accurately (even if it needs a bit nudging so that THC wont splash into the River). What do you think of it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Solabusca
    I like the idea of an inhabited bridge.
    I got the impression this was the situation in the before times, but not anymore? But a handy map there. Always like to compare with something real.

  2. #1077
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    This is a bit of concept art for my FM. It's a picture of the Shale Bridge. It's based on the old London Bridge and other similar examples.

    I have speculated that this bridge was built upon the original crossing point of the river. Settlements were often formed around such natural fords, and we have speculated that "shale" may have evolved from shallow (and this ties in neatly with the servants conversation).

    to recap:
    We are now working with the idea that the area of Shalebridge takes in the bridge itself and also surrounding streets on both sides of the river. (It may well be there is no real life example of a district straddling a river like this; personally I don't care, this is a fantasy setting after all, and it's a good idea). We have also stressed that it is not an official district or quarter, but rather something that has come into common usage by the inhabitants of the City. The only question that remains is how far this area extends into Old Quarter and Dayport. So far, I think Doc_Brown hit the nail on the head in his last post. Remember though, that an un-official area you might get different opinions depending on who you talked to in the City; in short there would be a bit of a grey area, so it might be acceptable, even preferable, to be in-precise about this.

  3. #1078
    I'd like to represent one boundary to the east side; This. (The green is SB, the X is a home to mr. and mrs. Guard).
    I looked at Angelwatch from left and from right, and in the end I could not perceive it obscuring the 'whole' mountain-range in any other way, unless the house of the S&R guard would be somewhere right next to it.
    Shalebridge slums would seem ideal for his abode (though it would strike the mechanists even more odd, now that a guest would be on vacation just next doors...).



    Anyways, your River seems too high for a one-mast boat to pass under...

  4. #1079
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    I got the impression this was the situation in the before times, but not anymore? But a handy map there. Always like to compare with something real.
    I've always liked the inhabited bridge concept, true... but have done some delving into real world examples to provide some detail as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    to recap:
    We are now working with the idea that the area of Shalebridge takes in the bridge itself and also surrounding streets on both sides of the river. (It may well be there is no real life example of a district straddling a river like this; personally I don't care, this is a fantasy setting after all, and it's a good idea). We have also stressed that it is not an official district or quarter, but rather something that has come into common usage by the inhabitants of the City. The only question that remains is how far this area extends into Old Quarter and Dayport. So far, I think Doc_Brown hit the nail on the head in his last post. Remember though, that an un-official area you might get different opinions depending on who you talked to in the City; in short there would be a bit of a grey area, so it might be acceptable, even preferable, to be in-precise about this.
    I'm equitable to that.

    Oh, and stop being so damned talented with the art-stuff. Love the concept art.

    .j.

  5. #1080
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Love the concept art
    Cheers. When I've finished this damn FM I'll be doing the concepts for the Cabal, the first community project from the T3 editors. It would be really good to have the map in a state where it could replace the T3 City Map for this project ...

    Anyways, your River seems too high for a one-mast boat to pass under
    Ah, but the tide is in

    As for your SB boundary, taking into account my earlier point, ie we shouldn't try to be too absolute where this line it etc. I preferred Doc-Brown's edge, which stopped at the major road running north south on the East Bank. I would argue that Angelwatch doesn't have to obliterate an entire mountain range from view, just spoil the view, and be able to cast a shadow over the guard's house.

    But you have raised another point; now we don't have to switch around Dayport and Eastport (not that I was particularly against the idea in the first place) but I prefer the present arrangement.

  6. #1081
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by sprenger5
    That sounds pretty good actually. Say during Thief 2 when the Mechanists were killing a lot of the trees in town...well trees roots work as natural water damn, but with the roots gone, nothing to absorb the water, therefore the river rose. Just adding my creative thought to yours :P
    Well if we really want to link such an event to the existing City history, I think we're going to have to go farther back than the intervening period between Thief 1 & 2. I have to wonder about the possibility of the Catastrophe, considering its proximity to the river upstream. Perhaps there used to be a dam where the Auldale Bridge now stands...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sxerks
    I don't think Shalebridge would be more than one bridge, it's not called Shalebridges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Solabusca
    Given that the road seems to stretch to the West (and may have a different name on the East side), I'd suggest that the small area encompassing the Shalebridge district be moved to the west side rather than the East.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    I'd like to represent one boundary to the east side
    As y'all wish, a few modifications are in order.

    Round and round we go.

    The immediate downside I see to this is the issue of the Ambush! map. I've tossed the notation back in there for you guys to see firsthand what the problem is. One potential solution is to assume Garrett was merely indicating the fastest route to the nearest thoroughfare (the \ shaped one the arrows point at) that would get him to Shalebridge.

  7. #1082
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Does it matter?
    Just a small note - all the maps I've seen have the overlook mansion pretty far out at sea. Yet in the mission itself, looking out north from where the ships would come in, the mansion seems to be fairly close to the city, and actually The City kind of wraps around it in a 'C' shape (if you can picture what I mean). I was just wondering if this was ever brought up at all.

  8. #1083
    T-Smith: Yes, I spoke of this once after some of my observations; for me it seems Overlook sits on a small peninsula, off at the west coast from the bridge. The City would then naturally continue further west from said location, as you saw too.

    Unfortunately the compass in the Docks of T3 is 90 degrees off (verified by Krypt as I remember), so a compromise is still in use, placing Overlook onto an island.


    Doc_Brown: Have you tried the lower placement of Ambush! yet? The map still has a Shalebridge Road on it's east side, perhaps it could be placed into the road-fork over there (Marketplace would then be "the source of light for the Jacknall's Paw" in the T3 ending cutscene, if you get my meaning).

  9. #1084
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    Ambush map:


    PSD file:photoshop file


    City map scales:



    EDIT***************
    if images are not available they may be found here:

    http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_the_City

    http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sxerks/

    ******************
    Last edited by Sxerks; 20th Jul 2008 at 19:29. Reason: image locations

  10. #1085
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    Mugla: Visuals, man, visuals! Show, do not tell!

    Sxerks: You'll have to forgive me for not wishing to dive into the thousand post ocean in our wake, but what were the bases for the two different scales you're using?

  11. #1086
    Along the lines Sxerks just posted. The lower one.

    He said he did a scale once by fitting Sealed Section inside the road fork west of the northest bridge (seen in his upper map).
    Then I noted we used that road fork inside Sealed Section instead (seen in his lower map).

  12. #1087
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Not to stir any pots, but does the Shalebridge District 'have' to exist on both sides of the river? Couldn't it just be: the bridge and one side?

    Also, what do y'all have as the critical talking points, that remain?

    1. Shalebridge?
    2. Wayside / Docs?
    3. Dayport / Eastport?
    etc.

    Great work by the way. Love the maps.
    I don't need logic, I've been offended by a trivial matter and I'm ranting indignantly

  13. #1088
    Well, if the idea goes through, Shalebridge isn't a district at all. A few blocks around the bridge will be called part of it's neighbourhood though, much like how the Cradle got it's name.


    Critical spots? Well, I haven't heard anyone elses views on the scale recently. And we'll have to fit the whole underground/canalworks into the place, so it might give a little debate afterwards.
    And there's still no word on the Ambush!'s location where Sxerks put it on his lower picture. I'd really like to hear everyone's take on that, as I don't see much problems with it.
    Last edited by Mugla; 26th Feb 2006 at 09:15.

  14. #1089
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    And there's still no word on the Ambush!'s location where Sxerks put it on his lower picture. I'd really like to hear everyone's take on that, as I don't see much problems with it.
    Well, the problem I see is that it takes Ambush! (something that we've traditionally associated with South Quarter) and puts it smack dab in the middle of Wayside. That leaves us either redistricting Ambush! or stretching South Quarter so far down that it practically cuts Wayside in half.

    At least that's how it looks to me. Others?

  15. #1090
    Older version here.

    As you can see, Wayside never had a border so north as in Sxerks' map. If you compare the two, you'll see the district line cuts Ambush! into two neat pieces, leaving plenty of room for it too.

    And considering how much nudging we have done during this whole process, I try my best not to associate things without evidence to eachother anymore; thus this version.

    The only real problem I have here though is the Shalebridge road's location...
    Last edited by Mugla; 28th Feb 2006 at 05:41.

  16. #1091
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Remember we don't have to have the whole of the Ambush map in South Quarter, just Garrett's apartment (top left). So in theory the Ambush map could could be half in South Quarter and half in Wayside. As a bonus, this pushes the Crippled Burrick into Wayside - so even less of a walk for the the guy in Shipping. On the downside, there isn't much in the way of a boundary in the middle of the ambush map, ie a city wall, (possibly the main canal could form the boundary, or one of the roads?)

    I'd say Sxerks map has it about right, but this means that the Shalebridge area should extend further north, as far as (but not including) the 2nd bridge.

  17. #1092
    Or... the arrows point along the road you need to traverse to get there: See how the roads go from this setup on the T3 map?

    Part of the reason I too tried this form.

  18. #1093
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Or... the arrows point along the road you need to traverse to get there: See how the roads go from this setup on the T3 map?
    I know, and that works too ... but there's nothing wrong with covering all the bases If Shalebridge extended up to the 2nd bridge, that can go a little way towards explaining the dual positon of the Cradle, ie. being labelled at the first bridge, but entering it from OQ at the 2nd bridge - still not very satisfactory, but probably the best we can hope for.

  19. #1094
    Ah, yes. The Fort IW -logo bit. That should be listed into the critical spots list above, too. Let's get back to that once we 'solve' this one, more or less. Hopefully we wont go in circles, if the decision then alters this one's viewpoints.

    Progress is made though, even if it seems the opposite. These issues would have to be covered sooner or later. Great work guys!

  20. #1095
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    BTW, another great thing to come out of Sxreks efforts with Dromed (apart from accurate scale) is the dimensions - for instance, if you look at the ambush map compared to how it is in the hand-drawn map, you see it is more square - as if the image for the hand-drawn map were squashed to fit a landscape image or something.

  21. #1096
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I just wanted to say that I'm so damnably happy things are progressing. You're all doing great work at uncovering and fiddling and finding new things, especially with the great work that Sxerks is doing scale-wise...

    The more that's uncovered, the more sure I am that we're seeing a small, small portion of the picture... and that str8g8's 'blank-space' map is going to fill out around the portions we do manage to piece together.

    Dammit, we all rock.

    .j.

  22. #1097
    A little read I did just now.
    The conversations gave some alternative views, even though slightly littered with typos and mis-writings.
    Darkside whorekeeps, or dock-side whorekeeps? And a conversation from Blackmail, suggesting a place for Truart's mansion?


    But what does Doc think on 'Ambush!'? I think we should place this piece into it's final resting place now.

    Next we can ponder on T3 Old Q., Shalebridge's influence and Wayside/dockside relations. And perhaps with another map, decide on the most balanced places for Dayport/Eastport and North Q./New Q. et al.

  23. #1098
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    Darkside came up a while back, but was deemed to be Dock-side by most of the transcripts. Had a quick read through that thread, didn't spot any clues about the Truart Estate though ...

  24. #1099
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    A little read I did just now.
    The conversations gave some alternative views, even though slightly littered with typos and mis-writings.
    Darkside whorekeeps, or dock-side whorekeeps? And a conversation from Blackmail, suggesting a place for Truart's mansion?
    It's Dockside. Dockside whorekeeps - sailors tend to like the ladyfolk. Dockside isn't a region, it's a descriptive term.

    ... I'll peruse it for Truart references, have to run for now.

    .j.

  25. #1100
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    When we look at the artifacts map, that would place the T3 OQ map down at the crossroads near lowest bridge, but then again, one of the artifacts is in wrong location in artifacts map (docks).
    Also, if down at the crossroads, keeper compound <-> keeper library -tunnel would have to be ridiculously long. But also, it is said of keeper compound: "It's a sprawling complex, right in the heart of the city, hidden by Glyphs.", also the training grounds in T1 is quite a large area which doesn't seem to be anywhere like the areas we see in T3.

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