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Thread: Mapping out The City.

  1. #1151
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    I think we'll have a complete map soon published, and the site should follow right after. All the evidence we've found will be displayed in a separate page/side bar, and I think this will be the best checklist one can have to see all the connection points between locations.

  2. #1152
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2006
    Location: Maw Of Chaos
    2 Mugla
    I will be in touch...

  3. #1153
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    All the evidence we've found will be displayed in a separate page/side bar, and I think this will be the best checklist one can have to see all the connection points between locations.
    This entire thread should be archived for historical purposes.

  4. #1154
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2006
    Location: Maw Of Chaos

    Ya, put itinto Keeper's Annals!

  5. #1155
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by V-Raptor
    O! Those magic rotations!
    ... disregard Garrett's compass. Therein lies the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    Would the Sealed Section be better placed at the 2nd bridge now?
    I've mulled it over myself. But that appears to bring us back to the problem posed by the Assassins map.

    ... unless you're proposing we move the Barricades but keep the area by the third bridge within OQ district lines...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    With a few nudges, and adding the last locations, I think we're ready to do a more indetail map now.
    Right-o. Any particular suggestions at this point?

  6. #1156
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    I think we should have one half hand-made map ready for str8g8, when we'll get him back. One such where everything is pretty much in place.
    Basically it's just redrawing over your map so, that the streets align and make sense (Ambush! has a Shalebridge road in the east end f ex.), adding some wall lines and the remaining places (Soulforge, Cragscleft, Bank etc.). Just like in the maps we alredy had.

  7. #1157
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2006
    Location: Maw Of Chaos

    Q...disregard Garrett's compass. Therein lies the problem.Q
    DOH!!! You're right! Uuuuu, damned maps...

  8. #1158
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    With a few nudges, and adding the last locations, I think we're ready to do a more indetail map now.
    Before we get to those locations then, I've got a couple of nudges for you. Check 'em out.

    I've moved the Barricades as has been suggested, while of my own accord I played around a little with the Eastern districts' borders. Thoughts?

    Edit: I also think it worth mentioning that I noticed we've made some assumptions about the shape of the Barricades, but we'll get to that in a sec.

  9. #1159
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    I keep looking at the roads, how do they fall into place with the two maps, how do they lead into convenient locations and how the space is available around the key locations, like the Cathedral.
    I do admit it, I liked it better at the upper bridge. The neighbourhood there isn't so known, and the impact of having a zombie-zoo next doors might have less meaning, if the few blocks around the barricades are mostly abandoned buildings (none would visit the sausage-factory, that is side-by-side to the Barricade wall... Who could really tell, if there is a hole in the walls of the backroom?).

    Also, considering North quarter has the bank, and we have New market north of SQ, we could have New Quarter and North quarter reversed. The north-south quarter analogy would still hold, if we'd nudge the compass slightly towards the Docks discrepancy.
    Just kidding.


    I really couldn't decide between my above suggestions and yours. This is the grey area without enough evidence, and it seems analogies support multiple views.
    So to keep the field ahead clear, I'll merely add optional viewpoints, not actual suggestions of change.

  10. #1160
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Some random thoughts (not suggesting any changes):
    Pagan grounds is right next to a major cross-roads right in the middle of the City.
    Two different graveyards next to each other.
    I actually like the location of the sealed section, since:
    sv1c0701
    Coming from market this morning - it was awful.

    sv1c0703
    There was this big mob of Hammers. Circled around some guy like wolves.

    sv1c0705
    No, I ran. I don't want them turning eyes on me. It took forever to circle around.
    The "It took forever to circle around" made me think that from where he had to circle around. So there's market, check. Impassable area, check. Alas, I don't remember in which mission this conversation is, so I don't know where he was headed. Ofcourse, I realize all this might seem a bit too far-fetched...

  11. #1161
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Shalebridge
    My first reaction is I like the new arrangement. I think having the sealed section slap bang in the middle of the City is fine - and as the location of the great Hammerite Cathedral it makes sense. I like how the way things line up with the east bank now - Old Quarter with a bridge to New Quarter, the Barricades Auldale St\Rd leading to Auldale Bridge into Auldale. It feels quite neat and tidy.

    Im intrigued about the shape of the barricades however - I remember Garrett's map shows the outline quite clearly ...
    Last edited by str8g8; 6th May 2006 at 07:42.

  12. #1162
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    I really couldn't decide between my above suggestions and yours. This is the grey area without enough evidence, and it seems analogies support multiple views.

    So to keep the field ahead clear, I'll merely add optional viewpoints, not actual suggestions of change.
    Aye, that's where I'm coming from, too. Personally, I prefer the Barricades up at the third bridge because it seems so cluttered now, down there at the second, but again this is just an optional viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorbusG
    Pagan grounds is right next to a major cross-roads right in the middle of the City.
    I too noticed that sometime back, but I believe the decision we reached was based on the location of the well in both SQ and the Pagan tunnels. I still like toying around with the idea of splitting the location of the Pagan tunnels and Pagan sanctuary but that's a bit of a stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorbusG
    Two different graveyards next to each other.
    Good catch, hawkeye!

    Quote Originally Posted by MorbusG
    I actually like the location of the sealed section, since...
    Another perceptive observation!

    Quote Originally Posted by str8g8
    Im intrigued about the shape of the barricades however - I remember Garrett's map shows the outline quite clearly ...
    Oh? Look again...



    Take a look at the marks indicating the walls. You'll notice that they were inked onto the map after the fact (you may have to increase the brightness/contrast on your monitor to distinguish between the walls and the borders of the parchment itself). Notice anything? How about this:



    Who knows where the walls head from there?

  13. #1163
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: not anymore :(
    Hi there. I think that it would be great if the developed map (Still, I know you're not there yet) was entirely vectorized. When finished, this could allow easy community adds to the city (FM space for example), easy search for specific places, mission planning, etc...

    I've done a little work (for fun - more like to learn Inkscape) tonight on a vector version of the Ambush map based on the thief map and Sxerks' measurements.

    PNG render of the 4 layer (rivers, roads, buildings, outer buildings) SVG file :



    With some fancy textures :



    (bigger version here)

    The SVG version : here

  14. #1164
    jtr7
    Guest
    Nice. Maps along those lines would allow for more precise mission-building. Once the fairly completed maps are available for FM builders, hand-tracing the desired lines of a printed map like that with a charcoal stick could give the maps an authentic look without making it too sloppy, yet not too precise.

    Work like this always inspires and opens doors, so thanks!

  15. #1165
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Briareos: magnificent job there!

    I, too, had made a layered psd file with vectorized layers (not all), but the layers tend to freak out once in a while when resized. Also, this is a rather old psd file, but anyway in case it's of some use, here it can be found: http://whitecortex.net/~mikko/thief/mikko_t3_clean.psd
    Kudos to sxerks whose measurement maps are included there, too.

  16. #1166
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Yes, vectorized. Tried to suggest that above, but it seems the dictionary inside failed me again.
    Indeed, we should do atleast a sketching like the above version shows, much like str8g8's maps some pages ago. Without the variation in appearances, when we simply copy-paste the existing maps next to eachother, but a map that has a uniform style. It doesn't have to be finalized artistically, just something to look at and say, "yes, I can make Ambush! map out of that... And I didn't know it was that small compared to Assassins!", etc.

  17. #1167
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2006
    Location: Maw Of Chaos

    2Briareos H
    Nice maps! Man, tell me, where can I get the same papyrus, which is on the second map (clear version, with no thief-map-image).

  18. #1168
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I'm on-board with the new position of the Barricades, Doc. It makes a lot of sense to me that the old Hammerite cathedral would be smack-dab in the middle of the City. That, coupled with the burst of wall-building and general chaos of the streets allows for a number of walled off sections in the older portions of the city.

    And B? Love the maps.

    .j.

  19. #1169
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: The Dayport Necromancers Spire
    Woah, you're still making this happen! I'm impressed. Great work, guys. I don't consiter Thief 3 to be canon, but you're on your way to convincing me. Keep up the good work.

    I'd love to see you tackle the region around the City and it's neighbors, as well as more of the world, after you finish the City.

    - Kemrain the Astonished by Your Great Work.

  20. #1170
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Does it matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by kemrain
    I don't consiter Thief 3 to be canon
    Which is beyond stupid. It doesn't matter if you like the game or not, it's the third game in the series and is canon. There's nothing to consider.

  21. #1171
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    True. Love, hate or ambivalence, it's part and parcel of the Thief setting.

    .j.

  22. #1172
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Tucson, AZ
    You know, something just occured to me. If we consider the current placement of the Barricades, MorbusG's comment on the location of the Pagan sanctuary, and my suggestion regarding the western and northern walls of said Barricades...

    What if Pagan Sanctuary is within the Sealed Section?

  23. #1173
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Brown
    You know, something just occured to me. If we consider the current placement of the Barricades, MorbusG's comment on the location of the Pagan sanctuary, and my suggestion regarding the western and northern walls of said Barricades...

    What if Pagan Sanctuary is within the Sealed Section?
    ... possible, but some of the notes found in the Pagan mission seem to preclude it (notes about the Pagans moving in and taking over from).

    Although, truth be told, we don't know HOW old the notes are, and the decay suggests that it could be a section that the Pagans have isolated from the rest of the area. I'd say that Treebeasts are an effective deterrent to the Undead.

    And... it makes a helluva lot of sense once you figure that the Pagans have this stronghold smack dab in the middle of the city with NO ONE NOTICING.

    .j.

    EDIT TO ADD: Add to that the fact that they don't seem to have a problem using cemetaries as a base of operations (Trace the Courier/Trail of Blood), or to using necromancy if it suits there needs (As shown by the Pagan Necromancer in the T3 OQ), and you've got a pretty strong case for it - the Pagans move in either before or after the Cataclysm, take over this section and wall it away into the Sealed Section, away from prying Hammerite eyes, and the world just accepts it as part and parcel of the undead scourge!
    Last edited by Solabusca; 9th May 2006 at 22:06.

  24. #1174
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Solabusca
    ...
    And... it makes a helluva lot of sense once you figure that the Pagans have this stronghold smack dab in the middle of the city with NO ONE NOTICING.
    Much like the Keepers, eh?


    I'm glad we're getting on too. Again? Perhaps I should scroll back, as I have this déjà vu feeling about this post...

  25. #1175
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugla
    Much like the Keepers, eh?
    Heh. The Pagans have a similar solution, but have to take the more dangerous route given that they don't have access to the Keeper concealment glyphs...

    Can't hide in plain sight, so you hide in plain sight in a different way.

    Hmmmm... stating the obvious much, am I? That's what posting tipsy does...

    .j.

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