Ya, put itinto Keeper's Annals!
... disregard Garrett's compass. Therein lies the problem.Originally Posted by V-Raptor
I've mulled it over myself. But that appears to bring us back to the problem posed by the Assassins map.
... unless you're proposing we move the Barricades but keep the area by the third bridge within OQ district lines...?
Right-o. Any particular suggestions at this point?
I think we should have one half hand-made map ready for str8g8, when we'll get him back. One such where everything is pretty much in place.
Basically it's just redrawing over your map so, that the streets align and make sense (Ambush! has a Shalebridge road in the east end f ex.), adding some wall lines and the remaining places (Soulforge, Cragscleft, Bank etc.). Just like in the maps we alredy had.
Q...disregard Garrett's compass. Therein lies the problem.Q
DOH!!! You're right!Uuuuu, damned maps...
Before we get to those locations then, I've got a couple of nudges for you. Check 'em out.
I've moved the Barricades as has been suggested, while of my own accord I played around a little with the Eastern districts' borders. Thoughts?
Edit: I also think it worth mentioning that I noticed we've made some assumptions about the shape of the Barricades, but we'll get to that in a sec.
I keep looking at the roads, how do they fall into place with the two maps, how do they lead into convenient locations and how the space is available around the key locations, like the Cathedral.
I do admit it, I liked it better at the upper bridge. The neighbourhood there isn't so known, and the impact of having a zombie-zoo next doors might have less meaning, if the few blocks around the barricades are mostly abandoned buildings (none would visit the sausage-factory, that is side-by-side to the Barricade wall... Who could really tell, if there is a hole in the walls of the backroom?).
Also, considering North quarter has the bank, and we have New market north of SQ, we could have New Quarter and North quarter reversed. The north-south quarter analogy would still hold, if we'd nudge the compass slightly towards the Docks discrepancy.
Just kidding.
I really couldn't decide between my above suggestions and yours. This is the grey area without enough evidence, and it seems analogies support multiple views.
So to keep the field ahead clear, I'll merely add optional viewpoints, not actual suggestions of change.
Some random thoughts (not suggesting any changes):
Pagan grounds is right next to a major cross-roads right in the middle of the City.
Two different graveyards next to each other.
I actually like the location of the sealed section, since:
The "It took forever to circle around" made me think that from where he had to circle around. So there's market, check. Impassable area, check. Alas, I don't remember in which mission this conversation is, so I don't know where he was headed. Ofcourse, I realize all this might seem a bit too far-fetched...sv1c0701
Coming from market this morning - it was awful.
sv1c0703
There was this big mob of Hammers. Circled around some guy like wolves.
sv1c0705
No, I ran. I don't want them turning eyes on me. It took forever to circle around.
My first reaction is I like the new arrangement. I think having the sealed section slap bang in the middle of the City is fine - and as the location of the great Hammerite Cathedral it makes sense. I like how the way things line up with the east bank now - Old Quarter with a bridge to New Quarter, the Barricades Auldale St\Rd leading to Auldale Bridge into Auldale. It feels quite neat and tidy.
Im intrigued about the shape of the barricades however - I remember Garrett's map shows the outline quite clearly ...
Last edited by str8g8; 6th May 2006 at 07:42.
Aye, that's where I'm coming from, too. Personally, I prefer the Barricades up at the third bridge because it seems so cluttered now, down there at the second, but again this is just an optional viewpoint.
I too noticed that sometime back, but I believe the decision we reached was based on the location of the well in both SQ and the Pagan tunnels. I still like toying around with the idea of splitting the location of the Pagan tunnels and Pagan sanctuarybut that's a bit of a stretch.
Good catch, hawkeye!
Another perceptive observation!
Oh?Look again...
Take a look at the marks indicating the walls. You'll notice that they were inked onto the map after the fact (you may have to increase the brightness/contrast on your monitor to distinguish between the walls and the borders of the parchment itself). Notice anything? How about this:
Who knows where the walls head from there?
Hi there. I think that it would be great if the developed map (Still, I know you're not there yet) was entirely vectorized. When finished, this could allow easy community adds to the city (FM space for example), easy search for specific places, mission planning, etc...
I've done a little work (for fun - more like to learn Inkscape) tonight on a vector version of the Ambush map based on the thief map and Sxerks' measurements.
PNG render of the 4 layer (rivers, roads, buildings, outer buildings) SVG file :
With some fancy textures :
(bigger version here)
The SVG version : here
Nice. Maps along those lines would allow for more precise mission-building. Once the fairly completed maps are available for FM builders, hand-tracing the desired lines of a printed map like that with a charcoal stick could give the maps an authentic look without making it too sloppy, yet not too precise.
Work like this always inspires and opens doors, so thanks!
Briareos: magnificent job there!
I, too, had made a layered psd file with vectorized layers (not all), but the layers tend to freak out once in a while when resized. Also, this is a rather old psd file, but anyway in case it's of some use, here it can be found: http://whitecortex.net/~mikko/thief/mikko_t3_clean.psd
Kudos to sxerks whose measurement maps are included there, too.
Yes, vectorized. Tried to suggest that above, but it seems the dictionary inside failed me again.
Indeed, we should do atleast a sketching like the above version shows, much like str8g8's maps some pages ago. Without the variation in appearances, when we simply copy-paste the existing maps next to eachother, but a map that has a uniform style. It doesn't have to be finalized artistically, just something to look at and say, "yes, I can make Ambush! map out of that... And I didn't know it was that small compared to Assassins!", etc.
2Briareos H
Nice maps!
I'm on-board with the new position of the Barricades, Doc. It makes a lot of sense to me that the old Hammerite cathedral would be smack-dab in the middle of the City. That, coupled with the burst of wall-building and general chaos of the streets allows for a number of walled off sections in the older portions of the city.
And B? Love the maps.
.j.
Woah, you're still making this happen! I'm impressed. Great work, guys. I don't consiter Thief 3 to be canon, but you're on your way to convincing me. Keep up the good work.
I'd love to see you tackle the region around the City and it's neighbors, as well as more of the world, after you finish the City.
- Kemrain the Astonished by Your Great Work.
Which is beyond stupid. It doesn't matter if you like the game or not, it's the third game in the series and is canon. There's nothing to consider.
True. Love, hate or ambivalence, it's part and parcel of the Thief setting.
.j.
You know, something just occured to me. If we consider the current placement of the Barricades, MorbusG's comment on the location of the Pagan sanctuary, and my suggestion regarding the western and northern walls of said Barricades...
What if Pagan Sanctuary is within the Sealed Section?
... possible, but some of the notes found in the Pagan mission seem to preclude it (notes about the Pagans moving in and taking over from).
Although, truth be told, we don't know HOW old the notes are, and the decay suggests that it could be a section that the Pagans have isolated from the rest of the area. I'd say that Treebeasts are an effective deterrent to the Undead.
And... it makes a helluva lot of sense once you figure that the Pagans have this stronghold smack dab in the middle of the city with NO ONE NOTICING.
.j.
EDIT TO ADD: Add to that the fact that they don't seem to have a problem using cemetaries as a base of operations (Trace the Courier/Trail of Blood), or to using necromancy if it suits there needs (As shown by the Pagan Necromancer in the T3 OQ), and you've got a pretty strong case for it - the Pagans move in either before or after the Cataclysm, take over this section and wall it away into the Sealed Section, away from prying Hammerite eyes, and the world just accepts it as part and parcel of the undead scourge!
Last edited by Solabusca; 9th May 2006 at 22:06.
Much like the Keepers, eh?
I'm glad we're getting on too. Again? Perhaps I should scroll back, as I have this déjà vu feeling about this post...
Heh. The Pagans have a similar solution, but have to take the more dangerous route given that they don't have access to the Keeper concealment glyphs...
Can't hide in plain sight, so you hide in plain sight in a different way.
Hmmmm... stating the obvious much, am I? That's what posting tipsy does...
.j.
You are quite right, but boy is that a bummer. It seemed like such a good idea.
Still, I'd like to explore it a little further. Does anyone have a screencap of the Pagan Tunnels map handy, by any chance?
Actually, I've been mulling it over - considering the damage/decay to the location, the initial forming of the Pagan Sanctuary could have taken place before the Barricades came up. After the Dark Project/Metal Age era, the Pagans could have moved back into it and walled it off from the rest of the Barricades.You are quite right, but boy is that a bummer. It seemed like such a good idea.
Still, I'd like to explore it a little further. Does anyone have a screencap of the Pagan Tunnels map handy, by any chance?
Makes sense to me, Doc.
http://whitecortex.net/citymap/index...agantunnelsMap
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