Y'know, I never gave props for the fine work you did there, Morbus.Originally Posted by MorbusG
So... props.
Completely randomly...
I know Constantinople has been brought up a couple of times early on in this thread, but just now my wife told me one of her friends was working on this jigsaw, and just for a momen tI wondered why someone had a map of the city. But of course, I was wrong...
The map of Bridgeport in Darkmod was taken from Constantinople... Not surprisingly since it's like the model city that's almost but not quite The City (& ironic, or a nice coincidence depending on your perspective, since Istanbul literally means "The City" in Turkized Greek, ista-poli.)
I like the latest of Morbus. Think we're reaching the limit we can do with the project, as our artists have been missing and there's really no much debate to be had on the details anymore.
Still, I'll voice my opinion that the scale Morbus is using ain't what I'd like to use. But I don't think that matters much, as this representation should be plausible given the evidence too (even if I recall only the debate over the scale, not all the relevant details at this point).
I suppose we'll get our hands full again if they release thi4f at some point in the future. Or, maker forbid, the original sketches from the 1-2 dev.
I agree but what scale would you choose then? Iirc there is no evidence in the game in the game, but you could take the width of the river as a hint and compare it to real world rivers that run through big cites, like the River Thames for example. With the scale in Morbus' map the river would be 1000m or 3000ft wide, which is too much in my opinion. On the other hand, when you choose your scale too small like making the river only 100m wide, the maps, especially T3 Old Quarter and the cradle won't fit on the map. IMHO the river should not be narrower than 200m or 600ft and not wider than 300m or 900ft.
The TDS map doesn't depict a "big friggin' river", so I'd ignore the scale of the river shown there.
Sxerks chose another approach and ended up with a similar result here and here
Randy Smith indeed mentioned a big friggin' river running north to south. I just don't think it is bigger than 1000ft, but a range between 600ft and 900ft sounds sane to me.
On Sxerks' map the river is 834ft on the southernmost bridge.
Just thought I'd post this for my fellow MotC crazy-folks:
http://www.wimp.com/samemap/
http://www.wimp.com/samemap/
Haha, you know how we think. That was pretty cool. Totally itches that craving in me when I was young and would just draw maps. Making almost a game or almost a spiritual ritual out of it was what made this more interesting than usual.
Huh, it's kind of like that 10-year Civ II game...
Those links were brilliant..
So we still have plenty of time to finish ours.
Ye gods.
I just picked up The Compleat Ankh-Morpork, which completely settles in my mind just how influenced Mr. Pratchett was by his love of the Thief games - A-M started out as a pastiche of Fritz Lieber's Lankhmar, but ended up a pastiche of The City + other influences.
Amazing product, mappers. Pick it up and take a look.
http://www.discworldemporium.com/ind...product_id=325
Seriously. It's both a thing of beauty, and an inspiration.
.j.
Beautiful work! Looks like a labor of love for the creators.
Just for those who haven't heard, it seems that the next Thief game will be a reboot. So it looks like we can forget about gleaning any useful cartographic info from it for this project.
On the other hand, we may be starting over again with a whole new iteration of the map for this new version of The City...
Good to see you popping in! Hiya!
Why would T4 even take precedence within this project? Separately, sure, especially driven by new enthusiasm, excitement, passion, and inspiration from that other new experience, but a thousand FMs weren't made with T4 in mind, and some of them, and fanfiction, were made using what we've all contributed here. Every few months I get a person asking me for a copy of the herewego map. I don't know who else has been asked or who found it on their own, but I can't be the only one. If this one could just be finalized, and the new one can be built cannibalizing what T4 doesn't account for, if it's even compatible, it'd just ease things and get things done. Look how long it took to shoehorn the old games into and around T3's City. If this map won't be finalized, I'd kinda like it to be officially abandoned. If someone comes out of the woodwork and decides to do it after the fact, great!
We know that EM has the TDS design docs, and one ex-LGS on the writing team, but no word on old Thief materials. We never saw that original map, unless the Talisman Map was the original afterall, which they quickly and thoroughly outgrew and didn't hold to.
Last edited by jtr7; 7th Mar 2013 at 12:14.
It wouldn't. What I meant by 'starting all over again' was that someone may want to cobble together a map representing The City just as depicted in Thief 4 (assuming they don't provide a complete map to begin with). As a reboot, it shouldn't have any affect on the work we've already done, nor vice versa.
Is it not finalized? I was under the impression that we'd gone as far as we could barring further official info--something that isn't going to happen now that we know Thief 4 has nothing to do with the original trilogy. As before, the only step left is an artistic rendering of the basic blueprint we devised.
Honestly, at this point I'm probably willing to just commission someone to do it. Know anyone?
Man, if I knew who, and knew how to pay them, it would be done. The finalizing I speak of is that artistic rendering. (One of the TDS missions is actually incorrect, I found, too). We also were hoping to fit in some FMs, and make a layered interactive map. None of us wanting these eventuals is up to it, or knows anyone.
They said that Garrett was away from the City for a long time, hence they are able to "reboot" some aspects (just getting enough distance from the original plot to not suffer from its constraints etc.), but not that it takes place elsewhere. His return to the City is explicitly mentioned and we have – woohoo – images of a river and a bridge. Heck, there was even talk about Stone Market!
Quoting from this article, emphasis added:
"The new installment in the acclaimed stealth-based series is a complete reboot [...]"
I'm not saying it won't pull heavily from the previous entries, but the information we're hearing right now seems to indicate it isn't within the same continuity. That, and the fact that they're dropping the number from the title, points pretty heavily toward no direct connection 'twixt them (see also: Tomb Raider).
I wonder if he just starts out with that eye and scar, or if he earns it?
The real answer IMO is, after we play the game we'll have a clear idea to what extent it's the "same City" vs. a completely new city and the same in name only. I personally had a lot of fun with the puzzles involved with the mapping project, so it could be fun to do it for this iteration too, I imagine. But whether it fits in the old map or requires starting a new map (even then I'm sure a lot would carry over), we don't have to decide that now.
Randy already admitted they didn't stick to their own map, so I wouldn't expect T4's City Map to clarify anything, if we even see one, unless they did their own version of the work like we did and made a bunch of best guesses. Maybe it won't be just a chunk of it this time. Maybe we'll see it in a media release before the game comes out.
It's easy to decide now if no one's going to start working for an indefinite period. If someone can work now, I'd rather that than waiting until sometime in 2014, and then finding out no one wants to do the work.
You're thinking about it a bit backwards I think. They aren't "clarifying" anything, like some ideal map in reality or imagination. If it's canon, then they are "creating" open spaces in the City by the creation itself, and the map should accommodate that, filling those spaces in. (The game is the reality, not even the working map devs might use, IMO, except in the "typo" case like the compass issue in docks, then reason trumps.)
But then the question is if T4 is really the same canon as T1-3 to warrant that. If it's really a new canon, then it's not really "talking to" the old map when it wants to change things. (Like, e.g., T3 talked to T2 on the walled up old city).
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