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Thread: Thief2/Ss2: nVidia 8500/8600/8800 - Crappy colours/textures

  1. #1

    Thief2/Ss2: nVidia 8x00/9x00/2x0 - Crappy colours/textures

    UPDATE 14/03/2008:

    Timeslip has been working on updating DDfix(now v1.2.4), which now works on both Ati/nVidia cards which has addressed the vast majority of user bug reports.
    e.g. Fog now works, no more stuttering movies etc, go to the following thread.

    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=117616&page=6

    UPDATE 10/01/2008:
    • NOTE: DDFix is required for all driver versions supporting any 8x00 series card to enable correct shadows texture dithering.
    • Any driver version higher than 163.75 under 'winXp 32bit' breaks vanilla thief2.exe and the DDfix'd variety using 8800(GTS-640/GTX-768) cards, some users using 8600 cards have reports thief to be fine on newer drivers
    • A few users have reported that SS2 works with 167.26 using 8800GT/8800GTS-512) - so T2 should work also (you`ll still need DDfix to fix the bad shadow dithering/texture)
    • Some users that WinXp 64bit have found some newer drivers to work on the latest hardware - will confirm driver numbers later.

    UPDATE (15-12-07)
    T2/Ss2 is Completely broken under forceware drivers 169.xx and above. The game is corrupted in both the manu and in-game this effects both The original .exe and DDFix version. And this comes after Ati have fixed the long standing fog issue, with their latest 7.x driver.....nVidia - you really are a bunch of useless F....s :-/

    UPDATE (01-11-07): TimeSlip (the dude behind "Oblivion Mod Manager") has come up with a fix(WIP) for Geforce8/Radeon2k taffers everywhere. He is the dude, he has done what nVidia have not, he has taken Thief2 back the way it used to look on Geforce4 cards, he has brought the stars back...!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeslip View Post
    I have an 8800 GTS, so I've had problems with this too. Luckly I'm a bit better placed than most to do something about it, so I've started working on a patch. So far I've got it looking like this outdoors. I've only tested it on thief 2 v1.18 with my 8800, so if you try it on something else let me know what happens.
    You taffers will need to download the latest version of DirectX - This link dosent require that deceitful WGA (microsoft genuine spyware) etc

    For better screenshots, see the end of this thread

    I am considering getting a HD3870 because I am sick and tired of the complete lack of response and give a Fhuc attitude from nvidia


    ORIGINAL THREAD:

    I have done a lot of testing with both the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX and the problem as far as I can see it is the 8800 card, changing driver version's make's no difference. As we all know for a while now 8bit sky rendering in T2 has been par for the course. But now with the upgrade to the 8800 series card, the 8bit rendering problem has grown to include everything else (all shadowed textures etc)
    On a 8800 Thief 2 now looks like Thief 1, ie. low bit depth on all textures in shadow. This is the same for both WinXp and WinVista.

    # Thief 1 plays and looks as it should due to its older engine not using any dithering
    # Thief 2 looks bad, as the 8800 is corrupting the dithering/rendering, so there are no details in the shadows.

    Biker
    Last edited by bikerdude; 16th Jul 2014 at 15:48.

  2. #2
    its a know issue.with no solution,afaik.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: Thuringia, Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
    Morning

    Is anyone else experincing the 8bit rendering issue in T2 (shadows are pitch black, no shades etc) - looks like low bit depth rendering, ie 8bit rather than 16bit.
    Is it possible to make screenshots of these issues?

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: On my bicycle \o/
    YOU NEED A BIGGER VIDEO CARD THAT CAN DO 16 NITS (50)
    Last edited by jay pettitt; 24th Apr 2007 at 13:06.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: On my bicycle \o/
    The pleasure is all mine.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jay pettitt View Post
    YOU NEED A BIGGER VIDEO CARD THAT CAN DO 16 NITS (50)
    translation please.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    translation please.
    Roughly 'nits' is how bright lcd monitor is. Which in jay's case was technically inapropriately applied....

    Quote Originally Posted by MH.TheFreak View Post
    Is it possible to make screenshots of these issues?
    The sky has always been crap (in case thats what your thinking) but now every other texture is in that same crappy 8bit mode..

    Ok I posted the pics...

    biker

  8. #8
    thanks for the screens - 1 picture says 1000 words . Looks like crap, indeed - a good reason to avoid 8xxx (at least untill it's fixed).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiatus View Post
    thanks for the screens - 1 picture says 1000 words . Looks like crap, indeed - a good reason to avoid 8xxx (at least untill it's fixed).
    Well Im hammering away at nVidia(where the problem lies) and Eidos to get a fix for this...

    biker

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: Austin, Texas
    I have an 8800 gtx running XP SP2. I for sure see the same thing as above. Shadows are black and hard to see in in T2. Is there no way to force the game to be rendered in 16 bit? Or is it all a matter of Nvidia Drivers?

    Other than this T2 runs just fine for me. T Gold also.

  11. #11
    .EXE patch might be able to fix it, or an INI line to force 16 bit texture use. Personally, I'd like to see 32 bits used, but we can't have everything.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekulor View Post
    .EXE patch might be able to fix it, or an INI line to force 16 bit texture use. Personally, I'd like to see 32 bits used, but we can't have everything.
    As the game runs fine on previous nvidia cards its a driver issue, which means nVidia will have to step up on this one.

    On my own front, Im looking at installing win98 on a usb key with a forced install of an older forceware version to see if that will fix the problem. Or failing that getting working on linux on a usb key..........Im hoping though that the new Ati/Amd card wont suffer from the prob.

    biker

  13. #13
    Someone should post on Guru3d and see if they can get a fix out. They are generally quick about this stuff.

  14. #14

    given the brush-off by eidos support...

    Morning

    Ive been been given the brush-off by eidos support, cant say im surprised or impressed.

    So that leaves me back at square one. Is there anyone out there who has a 8800 series card that is playing thief that ISNT getting this problem..? as I would be curious to see what configuration if any would not produce what I and others have been getting..

    biker

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekulor View Post
    Someone should post on Guru3d and see if they can get a fix out. They are generally quick about this stuff.
    Thats a good idea. Did anyone post over there yet?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sneak View Post
    Thats a good idea. Did anyone post over there yet?
    Spent the last few hours testing all the latest flavours of the 158/162 drivers and its a resounds, Nada!

    I tested the Z-tweaked(158.19 & 158.22, NGO 158.24, the nVidia beta 162.01 and I still get the freeking annoying 8bit issue still

    FFS...
    Last edited by bikerdude; 5th May 2007 at 13:03.

  17. #17
    Id this a Windows XP issue or does it apply to Vista too?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RejZoR View Post
    Try disabling FSAA and AF (or one without other). I've encountered the same problem in System Shock 2 (they both use Dark Engine). Haven't tried yet but some guy said disabling FSAA and/or AF shoudl do it. I know it's not the same like playing game maxed out but it should be better with some jaggies but with normal textures. Or just pump up the resolution if you can...
    Quote Originally Posted by Komag View Post
    Have you tried any different drivers? Sometimes a newer card will work with older drivers even though it says it won't
    Quote Originally Posted by DaWizeGuy View Post
    Id this a Windows XP issue or does it apply to Vista too?
    This applies to WinXp and WinVista...!!!

    I tried that, and several driver version's beta and Whql (from 97.97, 158.18, 158.19, 158.22, 158.24, 165.01), also modded drivers (Omega, Ngo, Z-tweaked, etc). It didnt make a damn bit of difference...same crappy banding and lack of depth in shadows. So it cant be an FSAA issue...!!!???

    I shall wait for the HD2900XT and buy that instead and junk this 8800GTX on ebay or loot or anywhere else people might be interested.

    In the mean time im buying a Belkin Omniview Soho kvm so I can play Thief on my laptop, but use my CRT and full size k/b and laser mouse.... nVidia you should be ashamed, but I wont be suprised if you dont give a F...

    I have yet to hear from any taffers that have a 8800 card that can play T2 with out said problem.

    biker

  19. #19
    Nvidia probably made some significant hardware changes which limits 16 bit rendering. Sadly reduced backwards compatibility is inevitable when technology changes. Therefore I doubt this issue will ever be fixed.

    Slightly OT:
    I also experience abysmal performance in Thief DS with my new 8800 GTX. 25-30 fps regardless of settings compared to 60+ fps on my old X1900XTX. Strange

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DaWizeGuy View Post
    Nvidia probably made some significant hardware changes which limits 16 bit rendering. Sadly reduced backwards compatibility is inevitable when technology changes. Therefore I doubt this issue will ever be fixed.:
    Yeah I new about that, but I had hoped that they would allow for backwards compatabilty - there are plenty of other 16bit games out there...!!!

    Slightly OT: I also experience abysmal performance in Thief DS with my new 8800 GTX. 25-30 fps regardless of settings compared to 60+ fps on my old X1900XTX. Strange :weird
    what driver version are you using..? T3 is fine for me at any res/setting. (currenty 1600x1200 max settings)

    Quote Originally Posted by Komag View Post
    I assume you tried the safe-texture-manager thing on and off.
    Im sure I did, but I will check again when I get home

    Oh well, I guess that card is screwed Thief-wise. Too bad, and it bodes ill for the future as well
    yer aint it just.

    I did have some luck on another front though! I got T2 to play in vmware w/s 5 - almost...... The game loaded, menus were fine, got into the game - only one problem the screen was black. I could heard myself walking around etc LOL So when vmware make 3D support official Im gonna buy a copy and play T2 on that!

    biker
    Last edited by bikerdude; 4th May 2007 at 09:17.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
    what driver version are you using..? T3 is fine for me at any res/setting. (currenty 1600x1200 max settings)
    158.19 and 158.22. I've done some more testing. Like I said performance is the same whether the game is maxed out at 1280x1024 (maximum resolution for my LCD) or 640x480 with the lowest settings. In indoor areas the performance is in the 40-60 fps range which is acceptable. Outdoors 30-50 fps (varies). Even with vsync disabled fps never go above 60 even if I stand in a corner staring at the wall! I think this problem has plagued all Nvidia cards since the 6800 Ultra and compared to my old Radeon X1900XTX this level of performance is simply unacceptable. Most of the time my X1900XTX performed in the range of 60-100 + fps with an occassional drop below 50 fps. It's a bit of a mystery really since Nvidia's cards are better optimized for the Thief DS engine than Radeon cards since they render stencil shadows much faster.

    Another interesting thing:
    The GPU temperature doesn't increase very much when playing this game. It just rises from about 67 degress C to 73-74 degrees C compared to 80-85 degrees C for other 3D games. It seems like the CPU is doing most of the work....
    Last edited by DaWizeGuy; 4th May 2007 at 10:13.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DaWizeGuy View Post
    Another interesting thing:
    The GPU temperature doesn't increase very much when playing this game. It just rises from about 67 degress C to 73-74 degrees C compared to 80-85 degrees C for other 3D games. It seems like the CPU is doing most of the work....
    Slightly off topic, but very usefull to know anyway :-)

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Hmm, well if this does happen to be a case of Nvidia scaling back 16 bit rendering in their newer GPU hardware I am wondering if there might be another fix.

    I have John P's High Res textures in Thief 3. Nice stuff. I have higher res T2 textures in Thief Gold. Might it be possible for one of the Texture Wizards to update the T2 textures to they will render better in the game on these new cards? Or will that even work? I don't know anything about the technical workings.

    This could be the way things will be with new generation video cards. We don't know what the new ATI's will do yet. But if it is a hardware thing and not a driver thing we will be hard pressed to find a software workaround.

    Am going to ask John P how the textures work.

    Too bad though, My 8800 GTX generally rocks everything I play on it.
    Last edited by Sneak; 4th May 2007 at 13:05.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    Location: Darmstadt, Germany
    When I get a 8xxx generation card, I'll just use my $5 worth Voodoo 3/3500 to play the Dark Engine games. My Voodoo 3/3500 is really great and I can play a lot of older games that don't work with newer hardware. I tell you, my Voodoo 3/3500 was the best legacy hardware purchase I've done in a long time . Voodoo 3/3500 cards like mine can be found on eBay most of the time. To be honest, I haven't tested it with Thief 1/2 specifically, but I'm sure my Voodoo 3/3500 will have no problems with the fog and sky and all those problems.




    dj

  25. #25
    My geforce 6600GT seems to be in the middle. It has the crappy sky, but good lighting.

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