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Thread: Thief2/Ss2: nVidia 8500/8600/8800 - Crappy colours/textures

  1. #251
    Well, if im going to have two cards inside the computer im in need of a new bigger chassi ;D Whic im going to buy anyways

  2. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by dealasteal View Post
    GAINWARD nVIDIA GeForce FX5900XT
    but he asked for a PCI-e not agp card, im still on the look out for a PCX-5950
    if such a things exists...

    biker

  3. #253
    What is the offset for shock2? searching for ddraw.dll results in nothing, and the readme just shows the address for thief2

    My shock2.exe: 275 KB (281,618 bytes)

  4. #254

  5. #255
    -- edit -- nevermind, helps to READ the .txt completely. Finding the WORKING copy of the .ini was a pain in the ass though - I had to dig into the main.cpp just to find mention of 'appdata'. Might help to say that the WORKING copy to edit to change the resolution from 640x480 is under "/documents and settings/username/application data/thief2" somewhere in the accompanying readme.txt

    That said, this is still coolness - FINALLY it doesn't look like crap. I can live with a couple minor texture glitches to run T2 at 1600x1200 @ 32xS, 16xAF and not have every shadow look bad.

    Question - if the offending part is how textures are stored, wouldn't it be possible to extract the texture files (like Orgy did moving the T2 textures to T1/G) and save them in a non-problem causing format? I had a similar issue once working on mods for Freelancer with retexturing one of the stock ships and that's what brought it to mind - or are we talking about textures that have their format changed after load and/or are generated on the fly at runtime?

    Oh, and for reference, I'm on XP x64 and it works GREAT... so 64 bit windows is on the 'ok' list too.
    Last edited by deathshadow; 24th Dec 2007 at 06:23.

  6. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Makatak
    The main menu has purple artifacts all over it and the game usually crashes in a matter of seconds. I already play a number of other games and I don't feel like rolling back drivers just for this one.

    Evening

    T2/Ss2 is broken under forceware drivers 169.xx and above under WinXp. The game is corrupted in both the manu and in-game this effects both The original .exe and DDFix version.

    I have tested 169.21 and 169.28beta, both break the games but 169.25 under Vista is fine.

    And this comes after Ati have fixed the long standing fog issue, with their latest 7.x driver. nVidia have completely dropped the f***ing ball yet again....

    biker
    Last edited by bikerdude; 28th Dec 2007 at 15:03.

  7. #257
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Geez. This is so sickening. Instead of fixing the problem as we have requested many times , they make it worse. Biker, do you have a ready link to the Nvidia complaint department, the one where they do nothing and don't respond? If not, I can look it up. I think we all ought to blast that site with complaints.

    The long thread on Nvidia's forum has done nothing for us other than waste our time. Even so, we should update that thread with this information and vent our frustrations by jumping all over that, too. Timeslip's fix is certainly nice to have, but it is a poor excuse compared with what a well integrated driver solution (which we may never see) should be.

    Anyway, 163.71 and 163.75 work for me with XP-SP2 and my 7950 GT (still bad sky in T2, etc.) but DDFIX sort of works, and they play T1, which is their main benefit. So these driver versions seem to be a sweet spot never to be seen again.

    EDIT: And, so far as I am concerned, Vista is not the way to go either, unless you are unlucky enough to already own one.

    Is there any word on whether the new fog-producing ATI drivers work for the ATI 2900 and 3xxx cards? If they do, then we have a path forward to bypass Nvidia, which would please me no end. They are simply incompetent, if you ask me. And even if you don't.
    Last edited by smithpd; 28th Dec 2007 at 15:27.

  8. #258
    Biker, do you have a ready link to the Nvidia complaint department, the one where they do nothing and don't respond? If not, I can look it up. I think we all ought to blast that site with complaints.
    I dont, I gave up on that avenue ages ago..

    EDIT: And, so far as I am concerned, Vista is not the way to go either, unless you are unlucky enough to already own one.
    I have vista, and yes I agree its a pile of crap, I wont be using it as my main as anytime soon

    Is there any word on whether the new fog-producing ATI drivers work for the ATI 2900 and 3xxx cards? If they do, then we have a path forward to bypass Nvidia
    Looks like Fafhrd is going to be testing a HD3870 in a week or so.

    I still have my PCX5900, so at some point I will see if it is broken under that card with the 169.xx driver aswell.

    biker
    Last edited by bikerdude; 28th Dec 2007 at 15:54.

  9. #259
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Thanks, Biker.

    I gave a summary of this bleak situation on the Nvidia forum. Click here.

    I am so sick of Nvidia that I hope ATI wins the race to a path forward. It would give me pleasure to dump my two 7950 GT's and buy a recent ATI card, if it will work. I eagerly await Fafhrd's results.

    EDIT: Bad results with 169.xx are also reported for Doom 3, hence The Dark Mod. Check here.
    Last edited by smithpd; 29th Dec 2007 at 02:37.

  10. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
    T2/Ss2 is broken under forceware drivers 169.xx and above under WinXp. The game is corrupted in both the manu and in-game this effects both The original .exe and DDFix version.
    I'm using 169.21 here, and I'm not seeing any corruption when using my fix.

    I tried without my fix though, and got the corrupted menus and a crash when trying to load a saved game, so nvidia definately broke something...

  11. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Timeslip View Post
    I'm using 169.21 here, and I'm not seeing any corruption when using my fix. I tried without my fix though, and got the corrupted menus and a crash when trying to load a saved game, so nvidia definately broke something...
    Hi Timeslip

    Im using the 1.0.8 version, (1.1.1 version was to jerky for me) do you have the 1.1.0 version btw?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd
    EDIT: Bad results with 169.xx are also reported for Doom 3, hence The Dark Mod. Check here.
    well this is goodand bad news, good in that it dosent just effect Thief but one of ID's precious creations so nVidia will surely have to get their finger out, but bad that it miughty effect thedarkmod....grrrr FFS
    biker

  12. #262
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2003
    Location: ...right behind youuu....BOOM!
    Well, as i've stated on the Nvidia forums, i'm now migrating towards Ati cards, no matter what any benchmarks have to say.

    I'm also building a second pc for older games. This should bypass any other compatibility problems Nvidia might cause in the future.

    I also intend to file one final complaint with Nvidia customer care right after the new year. I doubt it will make a difference, but they should at least know that they've lost me as a customer until they've cleaned out their act.

  13. #263
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    This duplicates a post I made on the Nvidia forum.

    ------------

    I have just started a thread at Anandtech about this problem. My thinking is that wider exposure to this issue cannot hurt. Anandtech forums have a wide readership.

    There is not much new information from that thread yet, but one kind user, apoppin, has confirmed that the ATI HD 2900 gives perfect rendering using 7.1 drivers under Vista. [We already knew that, didn't we?] I think he will be testing it under XP later. I'll report back if there is any news with that.

    I also sent an e-mail to Anand Shimpi, the CEO, and Derek Wilson, their video editor. Anand has more influence than 1000 of us individuals complaining to Nvidia. I'll let you know if I receive a response.

  14. #264
    Evening

    UPDATE (11-01-08)
    I am considering getting a HD3870 because I am sick and tired of the complete lack of response and 'give a Fhuc attitude' from nvidia

    Biker

  15. #265
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Hamburg, Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
    UPDATE (11-01-08)
    I am considering getting a HD3870 because I am sick and tired of the complete lack of response and 'give a Fhuc attitude' from nvidia
    That's their good right - and ours to choose a different brand next time.

    And we should do that because it seems that Nvidia isn't really interested in the woes of a few thousand potential (long-time) customers.
    The reason behind it - incompetence or disinterest - isn't really important.

    Personally, I've been with Nvidia starting with a Riva TNT and had 6 cards with their chips since then - a 7800GTX SLI-combo being the most recent.

    Changing to ATI may result in becoming a long-time ATI-customer which means two or three hundred Euros in graphics hardware each year going somewhere else.

    bye
    Calibrator

  16. #266
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Calibrator's situation and mine (previous owner of 6 Nvidia cards, with the last two SLI) are identical. And I, too, an ready to switch to ATI. The only thing that was holding me back previously was bad fog and an annoying issue with escaping to desktop and losing my gamma setting on return. Since the fog is fixed now, I can live with the latter. It just takes a couple of actions (ESC/Continue) to restore gamma. The same thing is needed to return to the game when running DDFIX.

    The only question I have now is which ATI card to get. It boils down to this:

    Is there an ATI HD series solution that renders Thief 2 correctly under Windows XP? I understand that all the DX-10 cards work under Vista, but I have not seen any evidence yet that they work under XP, which is my preferred OS for now -- and maybe for a long time to come. We already know that Nvidia 8000 series cards to not work under XP. But what about ATI's HD series using driver versions 7.11 and 7.12?

    If there is no ATI HD solution under XP, then my choice would be to go with an ATI X1950 pro for now and wait it out.

    @biker,
    Can you test your HD3870 under XP?

  17. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd View Post

    @biker,
    Can you test your HD3870 under XP?
    Sure I`ll order one this evening for Monday and get some testing (in Xp and Vista) done. That said someone else on here already has a HD3870 I believe and was gonna post in this thread or another with their findings..

    biker

  18. #268
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
    That said someone else on here already has a HD3870 I believe and was gonna post in this thread or another with their findings..
    Yes, that was Fafhrd. He gave a brief statement that he had done it in this thread.

    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=118796&page=3

    He described no details. He mentioned some "minor color banding", which indicates to me that he may still have the crappy rendering.

    I then responded to Fafhrd, requesting him to make some screen shots, giving a detailed description of where and how to do it. But he has not responded to that, and he has not responded to an e-mail I sent him as a reminder.

    So right now we have no data.

  19. #269
    Hi Smithy

    Well I have settled on the card that I want

    PowerColour HD3870XT (147@OcUK), this card runs at 800core and 2400memory. and from what Ive read is good for 850/2500 and the custom cooler will reduce temps by 10c and noise over stock. Also from what I have read, with a bios update (w/modified bios) will allow higher clocks in the order of 860+/2500+. I will be getting a thermaltake duorb cooler as it will fit either the 8800 or the 3870 depending on which card I keep, which will allow me to squeeze either bit more OC'ing or just keep the card cooler/quieter.

    Many of the reviews ive found show the card being the same as a 8800GTS some of the time and as fast or faster than a 8800GTX other times/

    http://www.hartware.de/review_768_1.html (use babel fish to translate)
    http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=482
    http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...deon_hd_3870/1

    So too summarise: The 3870 is half the price of my GTX, uses 50w less power, is 80-105% the performance of the GTX and hopefully will allow me to run Thief2 as LGS intended, stars, sky, fog, shadows while being faster enough to let me play Oblivion, Stalker,TrA, Doom3, Tds etc @ 1680*1050 w/2xAA & 8xAniso at 30+fps

    biker
    Last edited by bikerdude; 12th Jan 2008 at 16:20.

  20. #270
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Biker,

    I am looking forward to seeing your results with the HD 3870XT and crossing my fingers, hoping it works. Good luck.

  21. #271
    Hi Smithy

    I dont think I will be getting with the HD3870 just yet, compared fafhrd's HD3870 to the old HD2900 I took ages ago.

    ATi HD3870 - cat 7.12

    ATI HD2900XT - Cat 6.xx

    Intel 855GM


    biker
    Last edited by bikerdude; 12th Jan 2008 at 23:13.

  22. #272
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Hamburg, Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
    I dont think I will be getting with the HD3870 just yet, compared fafhrd's HD3870 to the old HD2900 I took ages ago.

    ATi HD3870 - cat 7.12

    ATI HD2900XT - Cat 6.xx

    Intel 855GM
    This really is disappointing - thanks for posting these (saves me money).

    BTW, does the Intel graphics chipset / driver show fog?

    Calibrator

  23. #273
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Here is Fafhrd's image (ATi HD3870 - cat 7.12) adjusted for gamma and brightness so it more closely resembles Biker's image (ATI HD2900XT - Cat 6.xx). You can see that the color rendering is fairly similar now. But it seems that the 3870 has less distinct (or no) stars.



    apoppin on the Anandtech forum sent me an image this evening from the HD 2900, Cat 7.12, and Vista. With minor adjustment in gamma, apoppin's image and Biker's image have exactly the same color rendering.

    Based on these comparisons, I can conclude that with the 2900 there is no difference between XP and Vista and no difference between Cat. 7.12 and 6.xx.

    Yes, this is truly disappointing. It appears that none of the DX-10 cards from ATI or Nvidia have a path forward that includes decent Thief rendering. The only thing that works for us is to use Timeslips DDFIX, which has no fog, or to use an older ATI card. Below is a similar shot made using DDFIX with a 7950 GT.



    The really telling thing about this image is not only the obviously smoother sky but the image of Basso. Note that with DDFIX his clothes have varied colors that show wrinkles. His face looks clean, with smoothly varying color. With the DX-10 cards and without DDFIX, all this detail is washed out. Basso's tunic is nearly solid black, and his face has a mottled appearance caused by color banding.

    I think that the ATI x1950 Pro with Cat 7.12 drives, to restore the fog, may be the end of the line now.
    Last edited by smithpd; 13th Jan 2008 at 03:53.

  24. #274
    On what drivers was the screen on 7950GT made? I temporarily swapped my brand new 8800GT to 7300GT just to play thief and I thought the 'crapy-rendereing-nvidia-suxxx" problem will not concern me, but I guess it does.
    The textures, shadows and objects are rendered ok (for an nvidia card ) but the sky is crappy. When I install the fix, game crashes after loading a mission (ddfix.exe crashes), but I am using the infamous 169.x drivers so they probably are the culprit. I will remove them, but I would like to ask what earlier drivers should render thief properly under 7300GT?




    EDIT: Looks like ddfix.exe was crashing when I set 1280x960 res. It works perfectly on 1280x1024. I wish I could play it on 1280x960 (I have a widescreen monitor) but if it nit possible, then bummer.

    EDIT2: when i run with ddfix.exe cutscenes are choppy - fraps shows 5fps. Is there a remedy to this?
    Last edited by Simplex; 13th Jan 2008 at 07:23.

  25. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Calibrator View Post
    BTW, does the Intel graphics chipset / driver show fog?Calibrator
    Yes, its the only chipset that has been 100% compatable with Thief2 over the years...

    The only thing that works for us is to use Timeslips DDFIX, which has no fog, or to use an older ATI card.
    And the nvidia geforce 5900/5950 cards...(which are quite rare now)

    biker
    Last edited by bikerdude; 13th Jan 2008 at 10:26.

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