Thief2/Ss2: nVidia 8500/8600/8800 - Crappy colours/textures

[bikerdude]

Hey biker,

Did you ever manage to get a reply from Timeslip concerning earlier versions of the DDFix? A few pages back you mentioned videos were less choppy using 1.0.8. I, like most I presume, are using 1.1.1 and am getting choppy cut-scenes. I guess the only solution for this, rolling back notwithstanding, would be to get a faster computer?

Hi Tymec

The Video choppiness is universal with all version of DDfix, all you have to do is gently move the mouse (I move it in tiny circles myself) when a cutscene is playing.

And no I never managed to get a hold of version 1.1.0 (im already running 1.0.8)

biker

[bikerdude]

Maybe Ken Levine should step in and rework his game's code to work with modern cards?

Or, if we had a wip round for Timeslip, so he could continue working on DDFix.. Say £1 from each of us..? if he has a PP account we could put the money in there...

biker

[Simplex]

The Video choppiness is universal with all version of DDfix, all you have to do is gently move the mouse (I move it in tiny circles myself) when a cutscene is playing.

Or you can try pressing scroll lock - in my case choppiness stops.

[smithpd]

I guess the only solution for this, rolling back notwithstanding, would be to get a faster computer?

I think the best solution, by far, is to get a slower computer (or your existing computer) and put an ATI X1950 Pro in it. I replaced my Nvidia 7950 GT with an X1950 Pro, and it works great without DDFIX. Yesterday I bought another X1950 Pro as a spare. If I am tempted to upgrade to a faster computer later, I can leave Thief behind on this one, use a KVM switch, and not get all annoyed with DDFIX.

I think it is too bad that Timeslip could not finish the DDFIX project.

[bikerdude]

. I replaced my Nvidia 7950 GT with an X1950 Pro, and it works great without DDFIX.

Also you know you can run both of those X1950Pro's in crossfire mode - they are 3rd gen cards so you dont need a master card etc...

benchmarks -
- http://www.digital-daily.com/video/x...ire/index4.htm
- http://www.overclock3d.net/articles....ease_x1950_pro
and if your missing the crossfire Interconnects - http://www.in-pcs.co.uk/product/ATI-...nnect_348.html

biker

[smithpd]

Also you know you can run both of those X1950Pro's in crossfire mode - they are 3rd gen cards so you dont need a master card etc...
biker

Thanks. I am not sure this will work with my Nforce 650i chipset. I have a little daughter card that you flip around to "enable SLI". The other PCI-E slot is inactive otherwise. SLI also needs a bridge. Do you think I can use two ATI cards doing crossfire in this configuration, without the bridge?

[Simplex]

Crossfire will only work on ATI (and few intel) chipsets. It definitely won't run on nVidia chipset - and vice versa, SLI will not run on any ATI chipsets.

[bikerdude]

. Do you think I can use two ATI cards doing crossfire in this configuration, without the bridge?

I didnt realise you had an nvidia based motherboard, as simplex said, its a non starter...

biker

[Simplex]

Hoping not to start any flame war here, I personally think that dual gpu solutions (CrossFire, SLI) are not too attractive - they generate much more heat (and often noise), require much more power (hence, need more powerful [and expensive] PSU), for two times the price you usually get no more than 1,5x perfomance gain (at best - in some cases the gain is zero). Last but not least, you are severely limited in choosing a motherboard - if you want crossfire, you cant have ati chipset, if you want sli, you cant have intel (and ati) chipset, etc.
I think that even if I could afford SLI/CF (which I can't ) I would prefer to buy one more powerful graphics cards.
I could see a niche for SLI/CF for people with 30'' lcds and bigger, with resolutions of 1920x1200 and bigger - in such scenario the power of two graphics cards can make a difference - and if someone uses matrox' TripleHead2Go SLI/CF may also come in handy.

Okay, enough of my rant, this is not SLI advocacy topic

[smithpd]

You are absolutely correct if all video cards had about the same features and it was mainly a question of speed vs. money, which is the case for most people who do not play Thief. In that case, the economics, heat, etc, favor a single card. In my case, however, if I were to pay for more performance using a single card, I would need to change between a card that renders Thief correctly (X1950 Pro) to one that doesn't (ATI HD series or Nvidia 8000 series). This fact makes SLI / crossfire a possible option for me. Buying another computer and keeping my present one for Thief is another option. DDFIX is possible, but I am rejecting that.

[Calibrator]

You are absolutely correct if all video cards had about the same features and it was mainly a question of speed vs. money, which is the case for most people who do not play Thief. In that case, the economics, heat, etc, favor a single card. In my case, however, if I were to pay for more performance using a single card, I would need to change between a card that renders Thief correctly (X1950 Pro) to one that doesn't (ATI HD series or Nvidia 8000 series). This fact makes SLI / crossfire a possible option for me. Buying another computer and keeping my present one for Thief is another option. DDFIX is possible, but I am rejecting that.

If you keep a specialized Thief-machine a single X1950 Pro is fast enough
for all Thief games and fan missions at reasonably high resolutions and
quality settings.

You simply don't need Crossfire which not only sucks energy without any use
(desktop), is of debatable use (not all games really profit well from that),
is noisier than a single card (IMHO important with stealth games) and can
introduce new problems (e.g. micro stuttering).

I use an X1950XTX at the moment for my main machine and it's of course
faster than a Pro but when I make my "special machine" I'll install the Pro.

The XTX will then enter my graphics card museum.

Calibrator

[smithpd]

I know I can keep a dedicated Thief machine and another faster computer. Obviously, in that case, crossfire is unnecessary. Right now I don't have a faster computer. Crossfire could have filled a small niche with some newer games until I get one. That is all. But, in fact, I'll never do it because crossfire does not work with my motherboard, so it is a moot point.

[Tymec]

Hi Tymec

The Video choppiness is universal with all version of DDfix, all you have to do is gently move the mouse (I move it in tiny circles myself) when a cutscene is playing.

Or you can try pressing scroll lock - in my case choppiness stops.

Both of those work marvelously. Thanks, gentlemen.

[242]

In my case, however, if I were to pay for more performance using a single card, I would need to change between a card that renders Thief correctly (X1950 Pro) to one that doesn't (ATI HD series or Nvidia 8000 series). This fact makes SLI / crossfire a possible option for me. Buying another computer and keeping my present one for Thief is another option. DDFIX is possible, but I am rejecting that.

Why? I can assure you that Radeon HD3870+ddfix picture in T2 is in no way worse than it was with my old R9800Pro (the same quality as your X1950Pro). Except absence of fog. Plus menu, map, objectives, readables are rendered in the resolution of game with ddfix.

[smithpd]

Why? I can assure you that Radeon HD3870+ddfix picture in T2 is in no way worse than it was with my old R9800Pro (the same quality as your X1950Pro). Except absence of fog. Plus menu, map, objectives, readables are rendered in the resolution of game with ddfix.

I seem to keep repeating myself, and I am sorry about that. And I am sorry for monopolizing this thread. I had no intention to.

Without DDFIX, the HD appearance is obviously worse than earlier ATI cards. I have used DDFIX extensively with Nvidia cards, and I know from forum discussions that the DDFIX results with ATI are essentially the same. I agree that DDFIX improves things greatly, but your phrase "in no way worse" is incorrect. DDFIX has several problems that bug me personally: no fog; older textures on doors and some other items look grainy and pixelated; it has some performance issues; need to hit ESC and Continue to return to graphics after escaping to desktop. I much prefer the older ATI cards, which have none of these problems. Fog is rendered correctly with recent drivers. To me, never having fog is a big deal. That is why I never bought an ATI card until the recent driver fix. I will admit that the grainy textures are largely eliminated if you use the NV's Expansion Pack, but the other issues with DDFIX still bug me.

I am not too bothered by the change of resolution with readables, menus, or maps.

That is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

[242]

I have used DDFIX extensively with Nvidia cards, and I know from forum discussions that the DDFIX results with ATI are essentially the same.

Judging by some screenshots of T2 on 8xxx + DDFIX, I'd say 38xx + DDFIX renders doors and such objects much better (no pixelation, at least it's not so horrible as I saw on the screenshots).

I.e. "older textures on doors and some other items look grainy and pixelated" isn't a problem with 38xx

As for performance issues, I didn't notice any, I specifically ctrl+alt+shift+del through all maps briefly to see how it performs.

And fog - yes, it's the only problem with DDFIX as for me.

[bikerdude]

No problem, Member. No offense taken. I just thought we were straying from the path.

I heard from Goku twice last weekend. He is looking into the ATI driver issue.

I have made an inquiry to an Eidos employee about release of the Thief source code. He is not the decision maker. He also said he would look into it.

I'll report when either of these people come up with something definite.

I doubt that a programmer could release the source legally. He must be under a nondisclosure agreement. It would still be good to get his perspective on it.

[snapback]338954[/snapback]

Well done Smithy

keep up the good work

biker

[jolynsbass]

And fog - yes, it's the only problem with DDFIX as for me.

And now no longer a problem at all... Timeslip has updated the DDFIX for proper fog, and fixed several other complaints (maybe all of them!) Anyway, I'd definitely check out the latest version.

[bikerdude]

I have updated the begining of this thread to reflect all the new changes and version updates done by young Timeslip.

biker

[GanjaStar]

hmmm, I find that hard to believe as I have tested 171.xx drivers on my GTX

1. So using the original .exe the in game menus don't corrupt..?
2. the shadows in games arent bad, as per every driver on the 8x00 series of cards...

can you post screen shots...

biker

The menu is purple with any 17x.xx drivers, and SHTUP textures do not work. However, the game itself doesnt suffer from any graphical issues or crashes. That's all I meant. I did resort back to the 158.22 drivers just so I could use SHTUP beta 6. Why would i be lying about my fav game? I have better things to do

EDIT:

with the 174.53 drivers and the latest ddfix, i am able to use SHTUP textures, without the fix the game still crshes when loading up custom textures.

http://kreeminals.com/images/2ts7u7gdyjbrh0llnxzx.jpg
http://kreeminals.com/images/tupcnow6nyran5wkh1nb.jpg
http://kreeminals.com/images/luphqebcmj6t5jphjhb4.jpg
http://kreeminals.com/images/d0sy0q957k98x7j832uz.jpg


EDIT: Sorry about the large images. THanks for editing it David.

[Garrett's Landlord]

Will DDFfix work with a nvidia 9800 card on Vista64? I've unzipped the latest version into the same file as Thief2exe but when I go to apply the patch it wont do anything.I get a message saying "DDfix has stopped working" I have T2 running ok with this rig except for the crappy colors and textures. I see others using 8000 series cards have resolved this issue but I am still having problems. Also want to say thanks to all who have been working on this.

[bikerdude]

you will have to run thief and ddfix installer in compatibility mode..