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Thread: Thief 1/2 & SShock 2: DDFix and Enhanced Resolution Patch - discussion

  1. #276
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    just tried again 5 times (with "older" 1.2.4, will try with updated one later) and only 2 attempts were successful - in 3 other cases screenshotx.bmp produced was always 54 bytes in size. Successful attempts were conderably shorter than unsuccessful ones - I could guess at once when given PS attempt will be success or not (and after closing the game I confirmed it). So now I know ~how long successful and unsuccessful attempt takes. I didn't time successful attempt - maybe it's in 1-2 sec range not <1sec (?) but unsuccessful try is always noticeably longer for me (3-4 sec?). I'll try to time them somehow if possible. So in my case successful tries are much shorter for some reason, and unsuccessful take ~the same as your successful even though they are not for me for some reason (reversed situation). Again, maybe it's nVidia vs. ATI specific thing?
    Are yours *always* successful (please try 5-10 times)?

    Have a good weekend, Timeslip
    Last edited by Hiatus; 14th Mar 2008 at 12:38.

  2. #277
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    fixed!

    just tested with updated 1.2.4 and out of 9 tries all were now successful (no 54 bytes files produced any more). Taking SS takes <2sec imo (didn't time it exactly but it's much shorter than 4s for sure). I can count to 2 and starting saying "3" (average speed) and game freeze stops and SS is done.

    Thank you for fixing this issue before the weekend

  3. #278
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Changing the overlay colour in SS2 has rather... humorous results.
    The entire screen is a solid block of that colour, with the exception of the parts that are supopsed to be black (the background of the inventory, ammo counter, etc.), which are transparent and allow the world to be seen through them.
    Looks like it's done exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to do!

  4. #279
    bikerdude
    Guest

    Happy to help

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeslip
    after hitting a problem that only affected ATi cards which I couldn't debug myself on account of not owning one, I ended up getting offered an x300. That's certainly never happened in all my time struggling with graphics card specific problems with MGE...
    If I had been playing Morrowind when you were developing MGE I would have offered you a card back then :-)

    As Ive said before I cant code or have the patience to make FM's. But what I can do is help out Devs and Fm authors with some free hardware to help them along. If it helps the community enjoy playing Thief/Ss2 then I'm more than happy to help. This sort of thing is indicative, that makes this forum better than any other I've used on the net.

    biker

  5. #280
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Since this now works so well with all three games, I've uploaded the hexedited files necessary to use DDFix for all three games and their respective DromEds. Using these without DDFix.dll being present will give you a crash, of course:

    Thief 2
    DromEd 2

    Thief Gold
    DromEd 1

    System Shock 2
    ShockEd
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 15th Mar 2008 at 17:26.

  6. #281
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Since this now works so well with all three games, I've uploaded the hexedited files necessary to use DDFix for all three games and their respective DromEds.
    Thanks for that NV

    :-)

  7. #282
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    I plan to play test a few T2 OMs/FMs during the weekend to specifically search for and find any bugs still left when using latest ddfix.

    if you got some spare time during the weekend, I'd like to ask you to play test T1DP/TG/T2/SS2 OMs/FMs and take notice of any potential graphical glitches/anomalies/bugs/stability! (using ddfix 1.2.4 updated version of course - redownload to have it if needed). Or simply use your save games with beaten missions (if you got them) and revisit the levels looking for bugs etc. Be careful/concentrated .

    Goal is to find any visual bugs/glitches/anomalies which might be related/specific to current ddfix version in order to help Timeslip to improve it even further and squash any remaining bugs when he returns to us next week, hopefully .

    Please report any found bugs/stability issues here (1st check with vanilla exe's to make sure it's ddfix specific and not game engine wide bug etc). Also include your basic H/W graphics config (ATI/nVidia, graphics chipset used, driver version, OS used etc).

    That would help Timeslip in fixing any possible remaining bugs next week . So now is the time to act to help the community.

    For now, ddfix looks great in its current version but I feel it still wasn't tested enough in various missions/games. Some more or less obscure bugs may still lurk in the shadows ...

    Anyone with some spare time willing to help is welcome.
    Last edited by Hiatus; 14th Mar 2008 at 18:46.

  8. #283
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Since this now works so well with all three games, I've uploaded the hexedited files necessary to use DDFix for all three games and their respective DromEds. Using these without DDFix.dll being present will give you a crash, of course:
    All FOUR, you mean.

    Thief: The Dark Project v1.33

  9. #284
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I just played all the way through the Thief 2 demo, The Unwelcome Guest, and I didn't run into any problems. Works great!

    Here's the edited executable:

    Thief 2 Demo: The Unwelcome Guest

  10. #285
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    @timeslip,

    Thank you so much for fixing DDFIX! Your continued involvement is greatly appreciated by the community. Now DDFIX can be used with no reservations. This is good, but in a way I am sorry we don't have to fight with Nvidia anymore. You have let them off the hook.

    My only suggestion is that you modify your web page and put DDFIX in the left margin, like the other things you have developed. It deserves a place of prominence. Finding it in the news is not so obvious.

    I tried it on Thief 2 with a Radeon X1950 Pro and Cat 10.1, and it works great with fog, stars, etc. Actually, since the X1950 Pro already had perfect rendering with fog (the reason I bought it), the only difference I noticed was the lack of resolution switching when reading a book (much faster and better with DDFIX) and the differences in screen shot behavior - file type and speed. I took screen shots using DDFIX with Thief 2 and Hypersnap. Used PrintScreen in both cases. The difference is that when using Hypersnap the image appears in the Hypersnap window and not as a BMP file. From the window I can edit its gamma and save it as any format I want (JPG), which is better than fussing with a separate operation. So, I am happy.

    One thing I am curious about is why does the screen shot take so much longer than the original version? This is true using either Thief of Hypersnap.

    I am going to swap the ATI card for an Nvidia 7950GT, which previously had bad sky and no stars. Assuming that works, and I have no doubt, then I can buy a faster Nvidia card and sell the X1950 Pro.
    Last edited by smithpd; 15th Mar 2008 at 16:12.

  11. #286
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment

    Issues with Thief Gold

    I don't understand what DDFIX is supposed to do with Thief gold, since I never saw a problem with its rendering, other than it looks dated. What am I missing? Is it just the resolution switching for menus and books?

    EDIT: I successfully applied DDFIX manually to my fixed version of Thief.exe, changing the first instance of ddraw.dll to ddfix.dll. After manually adjusting resolution in ddfix.ini, it works fine, and the resolution switching is gone.

    @Nameless Voice,
    I tried downloading your version, and it had an old date, behaved the same as my un-ddfixed version, and had no text "ddfix.dll" in its EXE. Might you have uploaded the un-ddfixed version?
    Last edited by smithpd; 15th Mar 2008 at 16:33. Reason: corrected an error

  12. #287
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Hmm... I just manually edited my own Thief Gold exe and it worked fine for me. Make sure you set your resolution the same in both the ddfix.ini and the cam.cfg.

    I use a x1950, too. For us it will just enable 24-bit zbuffer (if you set UseCompatibleZBuffer to "0") and properly scale readables and the menu, map and objectives screens.

    I honestly can't tell the difference between the 16-bit and 24-bit rendering. *shrug* Maybe if I took a few screenshots and compared them side to side... but Nameless Voice seems to think it makes a difference, and I trust he knows the Dark Engine better than me, so I just go with it.

    But I love the quick and seamless transition for readables and the menu screens, so that's worth the effort for me.

  13. #288
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Thanks, Twist. Setting the resolution was my failing. It works now. Actually I edited my post before I saw your response. Sorry for the trouble I caused.

    I agree that it is worth the effort.

  14. #289
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    My apologies, it looks like I accidentally uploaded the unfixed version of the Thief 1 / DromEd 1 files. I've uploaded the correct versions now, and fixed the links in the above post.

    As for the difference between Thief 1 with and without DDFix, Thief 1 basically looks like vanilla Thief 2 on a DX10 card, since Thief 1 never supported dithering in the first place.

    These two screenshots show the difference:


    (People will probably complain that I didn't apply enough gamma correction to these...)


    Now, these screenshots aren't exactly fair, since they were both taken on an 8800GT, but I remember that it rendered the same on my laptop's ATI card (which I don't have access to right now.)

  15. #290
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd View Post
    My only suggestion is that you modify your web page and put DDFIX in the left margin, like the other things you have developed. It deserves a place of prominence. Finding it in the news is not so obvious.
    I second that, DDfix deserves pride of place along with your other achievements

    biker

  16. #291
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    These two screenshots show the difference:
    NV, could you take some before and after FOG shots and state what video card/s your using..?

    thanks

    biker

  17. #292
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Fog? Any particular mission?

    Here are a few:

    Schwaa's Left For Dead:


    Hazelshade Cemetery (Only subtle fog in the normal sense):


    Both on an Inno3D GeForce 8800GT 512MB.
    I don't actually know what version of the drivers I'm using (they'd be the ones that came with the card, and I'm not particularly eager to install newer ones just yet). The driver version listed by DXDiag is 6.14.0011.6906, so I assume that means 169.06?
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 15th Mar 2008 at 18:46.

  18. #293
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd View Post
    I don't understand what DDFIX is supposed to do with Thief gold, since I never saw a problem with its rendering, other than it looks dated. What am I missing? Is it just the resolution switching for menus and books?
    DDfix is almost the only way to get Dark engine games working on Nvidia cards (under XP at least) released from November 2007 onwards.

    With the 8800GT you could use some shitty unoptimised, leaked beta XP32 driver (Forceware 167.76 IIRC), but with any later card you're completely stuffed without DDfix.

  19. #294
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    I just swapped an x1950 Pro (Cat 8.1), which worked fine, for a 7950 GT. That also works perfectly. Sky, stars, fog, and no resolution change. Using driver 163.73.

    EvaUnit32,

    Thanks. I didn't realize that T1 was a problem. I am ready for the newer cards.

  20. #295
    1.2.4 is working GREAT here except for one TINY little bug - it's so inconsequential I hate to even bring it up.

    T2 now crashes on quitting the game... No big deal, you WANT to exit the program at that point anyways - but thought I should mention it. The specific error is:

    The exception unknown software exception (0xc0000005) occured in the application at location 0x00183abc

    System stats if it helps:
    640 Meg Ge8800GTS, Q6600 OC'd to 2.7ghz, nForce 680i chipset mainboard, 4 gigs RAM, Audigy 2 ZS, XP x64 (there's also a 8400GS driving my secondary displays, but that shouldn't matter) - 169.21 on the drivers.

    Apart from the crash on exit - I've got fog, I've got sky, I've got good shadows, I'm not seeing any texture errors, the frame rates are good, the problem of the movies stuttering is gone, the cursor no longer flashes wierd when moved - and while I miss being able to set the AA in the config, I'm able to force it with nHancer anyways.

    Though I wish nHancer/nvidia tools properly detected the .exe - I have to set the profile manually... Still, 1600x1200 @ 16xQ coverage sampled AA, 16x AF, Sync on, high texture quality with fraps reporting a solid 85fps.....

    KICK ASS.

    Hey Timeslip, I do web design/development for a living - you want a free template for your site, ah heck, I'll toss in a custom cms type back-end? Feel I should give you something back for all your greatly appreciated hard work.
    Last edited by deathshadow; 16th Mar 2008 at 05:55.

  21. #296
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    just yet). The driver version listed by DXDiag is 6.14.0011.6906, so I assume that means 169.06?
    yes 169.06. Im running 169.44 on my old 8800ulkrtra with no problems, but as you know your card being G92 based runns much newer driver, the latest being 174.xx.

    And is it me or does Thief now look even better with DDfix that it ever did, even better than the original thief2.exe - I get shivers while playing its so good....

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathShadow
    I Feel I should give you something back for all your greatly appreciated hard work.
    hey DS, nice one dude :-) I offered him a Radeon X300 so he could test DDfix on that, but he graciously declined ;-)

    biker

  22. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by deathshadow View Post

    T2 now crashes on quitting the game... No big deal, you WANT to exit the program at that point anyways - but thought I should mention it. The specific error is:

    The exception unknown software exception (0xc0000005) occured in the application at location 0x00183abc
    I can confess that since version 1.2.4
    But no major deal.

    Thanks NV for updating the exe Thief Gold. Works well on OM's.
    But CTD when loading any Thief 1 FM
    (169.28 on 8800GT, Win XP)
    Last edited by Dusk-Sailor; 16th Mar 2008 at 09:50.

  23. #298
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Timeslip View Post
    Odd. Taking screenshots by printscreen should always be slow now. (Takes ~4 seconds on my computer.) It certainly shouldn't take <1 second if the attempt was successfull.

    Anyway, I'm off for the weekend so it's too late to do major anything about it now. I've made one little tweak to my screenshot code, so you can try redownloading and seeing if printscreen is a little less buggy now. (I didn't change the version number; it's still 1.2.4.)
    I can confirm no problems on an ATI X1950XTX, Catalyst v8.3 on XP Pro SP2!

    Color fidelity is much better than with the default 16 bit rendering - very noticeably in dark situations (not unlikely in these games ;-).
    Menu and readables come up instantaneously and movies play without problems.

    Saving a screen takes about two seconds (CPU: Opteron 185 which has the same performance as a Athlon64 X2 5000+).

    Thank you very much for improving this program and making Thief somewhat "futureproof"!



    Calibrator

  24. #299
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    I've notice a strange (?) thing when looking at some textures up close. DDfixed versions looks like color transitions/banding are more visible. Is it normal when running in 32-bit with some textures which probably weren't designed to look good in 32-bit color but in 16-bit one? I'd appreciate if someone could explain it. To me, 16-bit version looks better "blended" and thus more natural in this case.

    here's ddfix (32-bit color):

    http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ddfixgp3.png

    here's vanilla T2 (16-bit color):

    http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vanth3.png

    (they're both very dark, so please turn up brightness on your monitor).

    Does 16-bit shot (vanilla T2) looks more blended because of dithering being used, which is not used/needed(?) in 32-bit color any more? 32-bit shot looks to me like 8-bit(?) shot from vanilla T1/TG when looking at a texture up close (color transitions are clearly visible in both cases, resulting in visible banding). Just to clarify: vanilla T1/TG uses 8-bit color in H/W accelerated mode and thus doesn't use/need dithering at all? Is dithering only needed/used in 16-bit color mode, and 8/32-bit never use it? Thanks for clarification.
    Last edited by Hiatus; 16th Mar 2008 at 17:41.

  25. #300
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
    And is it me or does Thief now look even better with DDfix that it ever did, even better than the original thief2.exe - I get shivers while playing its so good....
    It is not you. DDFIX 1.2.4 definitely looks better than the original. When I walk close to the vine on the wall at the start of Running Interference, I can see that the original Thief 2 has dithering, which previously was rendered OK with ATI, and old Nvidia cards like the 4200, but badly with Nvidia 8800. With DDFIX 1.2.4, I see just smooth color variation with no dithering. I think this is because DDFIX renders with 32 bits rather than 16 bits.

    I have made some screen shots which show the dithering (with original T2) or not (with DDFIX 2.1.4). All these were done as BMPs and converted to JPGs at the end. I stored them as JPGs avoid overflowing my file storage space. The JPGs are a faithful rendition of the BMP even if they themselves cannot be zoomed. I have zoomed examples below.

    Screen shots without zooming in (BMP converted directly to JPG)

    Original_T2_dithering_Ti4200.jpg

    Original_T2_dithering_7950GT.jpg

    DDFIXed_T2_no_dithering_7950GT.jpg

    Zooming in to BMP using MS Paint and converting to JPG afterward

    Original_T2_dithering_Ti4200_zoom.jpg

    Original_T2_dithering_7950GT_zoom.jpg

    DDFIXed_T2_no_dithering_7950GT_zoom.jpg

    Note that the 7950GT original, with dithering, has a purplish color, that is not as faithful as the 7950 GT with DDFIX. 7950GT original also has bad sky and no stars. Ti4200 has better colors and good sky, but still no stars. I have taken my ATI X1950 Pro card out, but take my word for it, the ATI card with the original Thief has good colors and good sky, like the Ti4200, but stars as well. The ATI card with the original Thief has similar dithering to the 7950 GT. With DDFIX 1.2.4, I cannot tell any difference between the ATI X1950 Pro and the 7950GT. They both have good sky, stars, fog, and no dithering.

    EDIT: changed zooming method to use Paint instead of Hypersnap.
    EDIT2: changed reference to old DDFIX. I think both are 32 bit.
    EDIT3: changed summary at the end.
    Last edited by smithpd; 16th Mar 2008 at 19:06.

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