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Thread: Deus Ex 3 confirmed

  1. #151
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    Why are you guys banging on about when the game was made? It's a matter of perspective it seems. You're all hung up on which engine it should have used (if not the Unreal engine) and I'm essentially questioning if it should have been made at the time at all
    I thought that's what you were on about at first but then you said, on page 5...

    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    I'm criticisingly they choice of engine because it was a bad choice. I'm not suggesting that they should have waited or seen into the future just that the Unreal engine was not suitable for the task given.
    And now you're saying that that's exactly what you've been on about all along? Christ, would it kill you to admit you were wrong just once? I promise we won't think any less of you just because you didn't know the exact release dates of Doom3 and TDS.

  2. #152
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    But if he did that he wouldn't be TELLIN' IT LIKE IT IS

  3. #153
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    And now you're saying that that's exactly what you've been on about all along? Christ, would it kill you to admit you were wrong just once? I promise we won't think any less of you just because you didn't know the exact release dates of Doom3 and TDS.
    I've put it out there as one of many possibilities. It wasn't the crux of my argument though, I just think that an alternative engine would have suited the team and the game better. We agree that the engine, as it stands, is flawed, yes? If so I don't really see the beef here.

    dethtoll fails to get it. Again.

  4. #154
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    We agree that the engine, as it stands, is flawed, yes?
    No. So far, nobody has agreed with you that the Unreal engine was a poor choice.

  5. #155
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I mean the final version that TDS is built on.

  6. #156
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Then, once again, you're changing your argument.

  7. #157
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    You really are dense aren't you?

    Recap:
    I think that the Unreal engine was a poor choice for Thief DS since it's obvious that the starting platform in combination with the skills of the developers and the demands of the game type have resulted in the flawed engine that we know as Flesh.

    I also think that had a different engine been used, specifically one that did not require the team to overcome existing restraints and affect such large (ultimately flawed) modifications, TDS would have turned out better.

    Furthermore I believe that the Doom 3 engine would have been more suitable and that the dates of release are not important in this evaluation afterall you wouldn't use a hot poker to scratch your arse because even if it was the only thing lying around it's STILL a poor choice you ignorant bore .

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    I also think that had a different engine been used, specifically one that did not require the team to overcome existing restraints and affect such large (ultimately flawed) modifications, TDS would have turned out better.

    Furthermore I believe that the Doom 3 engine would have been more suitable and that the dates of release are not important in this evaluation afterall you wouldn't use a hot poker to scratch your arse because even if it was the only thing lying around it's STILL a poor choice you ignorant bore .
    I still don't understand how the programmers would have been any better at programming for the Doom 3 engine than they were for the Unreal 2 engine. Especially when the Unreal 2 engine was perfectly capable of doing everything they needed for DXIW and TDS, as has been mentioned by about 6 people in this thread.

  9. #159
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    The Doom 3 engine, as far as I can tell from The Dark Mod experience, is better suited to stealth gameplay. It already has dynamic shadows for starters and appears to not need as much tweaking as the Unreal engine did. Let's put it this way - an amature mod team seems to doing a better job of it than the professionals did with another engine.

  10. #160
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    I'd like to think of it as brain surgery. If you don't have the right tools, or the right surgeon, or the right drugs all there at the same time you don't do it even if it means the patient will certainly die. There is no point messing it up into an impromptu lobotomy.
    I wonder if the patient would agree with you. If the alternative is certain death wouldn't you say, "Go right ahead doc, give it your best shot".

  11. #161
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    The patient might well do that but that doesn't mean that the surgeon will operate because sometimes it's the right thing to not operate. They say that the mark of a good surgeon is knowing when not to operate, and I think that the analogy fits well in the context of the TDS engine discussion.

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    The Doom 3 engine, as far as I can tell from The Dark Mod experience, is better suited to stealth gameplay. It already has dynamic shadows for starters and appears to not need as much tweaking as the Unreal engine did. Let's put it this way - an amature mod team seems to doing a better job of it than the professionals did with another engine.
    How well does the Dark Mod run on the Xbox? I think if you look at all of the publisher's design goals for TDS/DXIW and compare them to what more competent developers were capable of doing with Unreal 2, that it was a perfectly reasonable choice of an engine.
    Last edited by Jason Moyer; 29th Nov 2007 at 17:56.

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    The patient might well do that but that doesn't mean that the surgeon will operate because sometimes it's the right thing to not operate. They say that the mark of a good surgeon is knowing when not to operate, and I think that the analogy fits well in the context of the TDS engine discussion.
    If TDS had access to a good surgeon, we wouldn't even be debating the quality of the tools used.

  14. #164
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Seriously now Moyer, what has that got to do with it? This is just a pointless aside isn't it?

    And if you're questioning whether it could run on XBox Doom 3 is on the other line requesting that you stop asking stupid questions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    If TDS had access to a good surgeon, we wouldn't even be debating the quality of the tools used.
    True.

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    And if you're questioning whether it could run on XBox Doom 3, Quake 4 and Prey are on the other line requesting that you stop asking stupid questions.
    I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Would the Dark Mod run on 64 megs of RAM with Thief-sized levels?

  16. #166
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Oh this is a drag. I'm not complaining about the level size - they are small and if a different engine meant they were still small BUT we got other benefits then I'd by happy.

    I've edited my previous post in respect to games on XBox btw.

  17. #167
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    The Doom 3 engine, as far as I can tell from The Dark Mod experience, is better suited to stealth gameplay. It already has dynamic shadows for starters and appears to not need as much tweaking as the Unreal engine did. Let's put it this way - an amature mod team seems to doing a better job of it than the professionals did with another engine.
    I think that says more about the ability of the people involved than it does about the choice of engine.

  18. #168
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    These back and forths are really interesting, guys.

  19. #169
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Yeah, discussion on a discussion forum can be so fascinating.

  20. #170
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Oh snap! dethtoll *zings* the Scots! rofl

  21. #171
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    Haha yeah, "discussion".

  22. #172
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Awww, I'm just kidding Scots. This "discussion" is rather dull (mainly because certain people can't think for themselves and I'm having to play the spelling it out game. again. yawn).

    Bye Scots. Have fun with DXIW. I'm going to be playing it soon - I also only played the beginning.

  23. #173
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: California, USA
    CANADIANS

    WHAT THE HELL DO CANADIANS KNOW ABOUT CYBERPUNK

    THIS GAME IS GONNA SUCK

    Well I imagine this game is going to be better than IW at the very least. Not that I know much about IW because I quit playing it during the second level out of disgust. Then again, I did that with DX1 for a time because the first level sucked so hard...maybe I should go back and give IW another chance--

    Uh, anyways on the bright side, consoles are a lot more comparable to modern day PCs than in the days of IW/DS so the game will only have a crippled UI and gameplay pruned for simplicity rather than being limited by underpowered hardware specs. Still, with a bad enough dev team, I'm sure they can find a way to screw that up too.

    It's nice to see that they're planning on dropping a lot of cash on it because that at the very least suggests the game will look nice which was a major failing point of the previous two games. I being a shameless graphics whore can enjoy a mediocre game as long as it stimulates my eyes.

    What I'm really interested in is how obnoxious they'll manage to make hacking/lockpicking. I swear there must be a secret contest going on between all the dev studios.

  24. #174
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: Coca Cola, Sometimes a war!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurius View Post
    What I'm really interested in is how obnoxious they'll manage to make hacking/lockpicking. I swear there must be a secret contest going on between all the dev studios.
    So sad, but oh so true.

    At this moment, Mass Effect is quite securely in the lead.

  25. #175
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by heretic1dg View Post
    So sad, but oh so true.

    At this moment, Mass Effect is quite securely in the lead.
    I find it hard to believe that anything could be as bad as Bioshock's "plumbing".

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