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Thread: Good Old Games (gog.com)

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: New Zealand
    Yakoob, I was being facetious. I guess I hid it a little too well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    But in the Dos days, the win32 API simply didn't exist - so how could have the devs prepared for that?
    The Win32 API has been around since Windows 95. Many of these games were released for Windows 95 and higher so by your theory of blameless devs they should run fine. As for the DOS games, there shouldn't be any problem running them in a DOS emulator already, but there will be (salt the fries!).
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    But the OS can (and, with win95 and 98 it did). It's really the burden of the OS to allow older products to run on it, not the other way around.
    And those games that have used those APIs properly should run without a problem. Trouble is many times they haven't used those APIs properly. This is the reason the Windows source code is full of application-specific work-arounds and hacks. Why the Wine bug-tracker is full of bugs for games that fail to do even basic things like reset cursor position or grab the mouse. Many games, even now, require you to be an administrator just to run them.

    There are plenty of libraries out there that abstract the platform away for you and yet the majority of commercial game developers still write this stuff from scratch each time.

    Take Unreal Tournament for example (and every game that uses that engine); I have to use a script to tax my CPU before running the game because it detects the current clock speed and runs using that. Stupid shit like that stopped being done over a decade ago. No IdTech3 based game (Quake 3 was released the same time as UT) suffers from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Raven View Post
    the .dll file that is included in the installation must be modifying the program at run-time. All you need to do is rename that file and things are back the way they were; however, this also brings back the black screen issue that is common on NT systems.
    Thank you for helping my point.

    Sorry to rant in here but this stuff really annoys me and many commercial game developers need a kick in the face.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemebond View Post
    The Win32 API has been around since Windows 95. Many of these games were released for Windows 95 and higher so by your theory of blameless devs they should run fine. As for the DOS games, there shouldn't be any problem running them in a DOS emulator already, but there will be (salt the fries!).
    I was using win32 merely as an example, there is many more APIs you need to take care of to get the game running, which may have been creme of the crop 10 years ago but are completely obsolete today (audio and graphics spring to mind). Your second argument about DOS emulators further proves my point that it's not the devs responsibility to be forward-compatible.

    Trouble is many times they haven't used those APIs properly. This is the reason the Windows source code is full of application-specific work-arounds and hacks. Why the Wine bug-tracker is full of bugs for games that fail to do even basic things like reset cursor position or grab the mouse. Many games, even now, require you to be an administrator just to run them.
    Not to seem arrogant, but have you ever used any of those APIs in performance-critical applications (I see you have WebDev and technician in your profile, but that doesn't specify areas you worked in)? Can you really define a how to use them "properly?" Oftentimes there are a few ways to achieve the same effect - how do you know which one is "proper?" Often, the most "proper" way to do something is also the least efficient (which is a deal-breaker in performance-critical programs such as games). And sometimes the documentation really fucking blows, so it's all about trying random shit until something finally works (yes, I'm speaking from experience). And also consider it was ten years ago, when the APIs were less mature, much less documented and lacking huge communities to provide support.


    There are plenty of libraries out there that abstract the platform away for you and yet the majority of commercial game developers still write this stuff from scratch each time.
    Yes, and most of these libraries are actually pretty shitty, good-but-not-good-enough for game development, under GPL, non-cross-platform compatible or require devs to pay monies they simply don't have. And, again, there was even less of that ten years ago.

    Yes, I agree it would be awesome if we could have standard game dev libraries for most rudimentary stuff, but it's been decades and there's still no single efficient, affordable and cross-platform compatible solution. Only recently are we seeing a change in this (ex: Havok), but it's still primary in the "blockbuster studio" price range.

    Take Unreal Tournament for example (and every game that uses that engine); I have to use a script to tax my CPU before running the game because it detects the current clock speed and runs using that. Stupid shit like that stopped being done over a decade ago. No IdTech3 based game (Quake 3 was released the same time as UT) suffers from that.Thank you for helping my point.
    A strawman argument a bit. Sure it's broken today (and I experienced the very same bug myself), but when UT was released, it worked like a charm and ensured the game worded on variety of PCs. Like I said, the most efficient solution isn't necessarily the most logical or most "proper."

    You may also be blaming all the companies who give new technology a try (like, say, 3DFX or PhysX). It enhances their games and paves way for the mainstream use of the new tech. And if the new tech catches on, hooray the devs are future proofing their games and bringing the best performance to me TODAY yay! but if it falls through, their games will eventually stop working and boo the devs are iditios who can't program a calculator, what the hell were they thinking!?
    It's the exact same thing why some old games work out-of-the-box, and others flat-out don't. And it's not the Devs that need to be blamed.
    Last edited by Yakoob; 10th Sep 2008 at 14:22.

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Iacon
    Downloading Giants as i type this. Not sure what to get for my Free Interplay Game - I already own several of them.

    Anyway hoping they convinced some more publishers to sign up. Especially Lucasarts.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Location: Maritime Provinces (Canada)
    Indeed, LucasArts and EA/Origin would bring a lot of great oldies to their catalogue.

  5. #80
    I just got my beta access key, and am rather impressed with the catalogue.

    While I do own several of the games available there (the entire Descent series, Die by the Sword, Freespace + Silent Threat, the original Redneck Rampage), there are also several I don't (a copy of Die by the Sword that actually works on my new Vista-based system, Freespace 2, Giants, Hostile Waters, and both MDK titles).

    I'm about to go on a shopping spree, especially with this buy-one-get-one-free thing going on. Here's my question, though-do you only ever get one free game code, or do you get one for each game you purchase individually? (You only get one code, and that's with your first purchase. I'm not complaining when I get at least one free game, though.)

    (Oh, and I really, REALLY hope they get Baldur's Gate + Tales of the Sword Coast in their catalogue. I have the sequel and its expansion, but I won't touch those until I clear the first game. Same for Thief Gold; I have Thief II on a CGW DVD with Deus Ex, but won't touch it until I clear the first game.)
    Last edited by NamelessPlayer; 10th Sep 2008 at 15:24.

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: 10,000 Tacks
    This might be a silly question but I haven't got my beta key yet so I haven't had a chance to poke around: What kind of file sizes are these downloads generally coming in at? I own most of this shit already but the opportunity to be able to just fire them up without a lot of pissing around (not to mention being able to burn XP-compatible copies and toss them into the original game boxes for future use) is mighty appealing. And christ, you can barely get punched in the nuts for six bucks these days.

  7. #82
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Malygris View Post
    This might be a silly question but I haven't got my beta key yet so I haven't had a chance to poke around: What kind of file sizes are these downloads generally coming in at?
    I'd say that 400-600 meg is about the average, with a few, specially amongst the upcoming games, that measure in at a couple of gig.

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Sevastapol Station
    I just got my beta key today
    and I got fallout and freespace (+expansion)
    fallout was 500mb ish
    freespace was around 800

    I suppose if i just got mine today yours must be coming soon.

  9. #84

    According to the web site

    74.0 MB - MDK
    75.5 MB - Conquest of the New World
    136.3 MB - Earthworm Jim 3D
    219.4 MB - MDK 2
    248.5 MB - Shogo: Mobile Armor Division
    281.1 MB - F/A-18E Super Hornet
    337.1 MB - Kingpin: Life of Crime
    407.8 MB - Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business
    408.5 MB - Messiah
    443.8 MB - Evolva
    474.3 MB - 1nsane
    474.9 MB - Shattered Steel
    482.2 MB - Die by the Sword + Expansion
    505.4 MB - Fallout
    522.5 MB - Hostile Waters: Antaeus Rising
    546.8 MB - Descent + Descent 2
    562.6 MB - Sacrifice
    579.6 MB - Fallout 2
    613.4 MB - M.A.X. + M.A.X. 2
    669.0 MB - Invictus: in the Shadow of Olympus
    699.4 MB - Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader
    787.7 MB - Giants: Citizen Kabuto
    797.5 MB - Descent 3 + Expansion
    829.0 MB - Freespace + Expansion
    978.3 MB - Original War
    1.3 GB - Perimeter
    1.6 GB - Fallout Tactics
    1.6 GB - Freespace 2

  10. #85
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Descent 2 doesn't include "The Vertigo Series" expansion.

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    So has someone downloaded and run any of these programs?

  12. #87
    is Best Pony
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: The magical land of Equestria
    Well, I plumped for Die By The Sword as my first purchase, with Shattered Steel as my free choice. I think one of the Descents will be next, plus perhaps Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business at some point.

  13. #88
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_doe_nz View Post
    So has someone downloaded and run any of these programs?
    I've downloaded and installed Kingpin. It works fine under XP x64.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Funnily enough, with regards to Descent: Freespace & FS2, a lot of people don't realise that it can be downloaded for free legit with a taffload of massive updates and fixes with. And I don't mean those abandonware sites either.

    Then again, I got the full box versions of the freespace series.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Location: Maritime Provinces (Canada)
    We have already discussed that, and it isn't as legit as you may think.

    EDIT: Also, I don't think Volitions Advocate and bob_doe_nz have really been paying attention to the other posts in this thread.

    EDIT2: Funny, I could have sworn that we talked about Freespace 2's freeware status in this thread. I guess I must be confusing this one with another one.
    Last edited by The_Raven; 11th Sep 2008 at 13:03.

  16. #91
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Freespace 2 (and definitely not FS1) was never freeware.

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Descent 2 doesn't include "The Vertigo Series" expansion.
    That's strange-how could they overlook that? Not that it matters to me, since that expansion came with Descent I and II: The Definitive Collection, but anyone who doesn't have such a package ought to get it with their GOG.com purchase.

    At least they included the Mercenary expansion with Descent 3, though I already have both as well in one of Interplay's dual-jewel packs (which came with another dual-jewel pack containing Fallout 1 and 2).

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Location: Maritime Provinces (Canada)
    Wow, that was an awesome bundle.

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_doe_nz View Post
    So has someone downloaded and run any of these programs?

    already answered. I'm several hours into Fallout 2 and working awesome.

    On that note, I got through trials, the first village, den, radclifff (sp?) and haven't heard any music yet (not even in world map). I hear normal sounds and ambiance, all movies work fine, but no music - is this normal?

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: East Achewood, CA
    I'm curious about the installation routine. Now, I know that the service claims to be DRM free, and I believe them, but I find it hard to beleive that a publisher would even let a digital copy of an old-property game go into the wild without at least some kind of activation.

    Those of you who have installed the games, does the installation routine access a mothership somewhere and generate a license key (ie. a one-time activation), similar to Stardock's Impulse service? Does it attempt to connect to the internet at all? Can you take the same digital file you downloaded, put it on a separate computer with no internet access, and successfully install and play the game on that machine?

    Because, if so, wow, that's really something. You actually own the game.

    Still waiting on my beta key...

    I actually own Freespace 1, but the thought of being able to install it and run it fully patched with no nonsense... and also get Freespace 2 for the price of one game? I actually bought a joystick to play Dark Star One, got bored with the constant crashes and lost interest. Now I can get something that's actually worthy of a new joystick. Someone pinch me.

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    With fallout 2, it was an exe installer that I ran specified where I want the files to go, waited for the bar to fill up - done. The game works.

    I don't think the installer contacted the mothership (if it did I didn't notice), but I really doubt it, they wouldn't be touting their games as DRM free if they did that.

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Freespace 2 (and definitely not FS1) was never freeware.
    I stand corrected. I'm looking around the web with a half full glass and see what you mean.

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Freeware, no. Though, you are explicitly allowed to share the game with friends.

  24. #99
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by doctorfrog View Post
    I'm curious about the installation routine. Now, I know that the service claims to be DRM free, and I believe them, but I find it hard to beleive that a publisher would even let a digital copy of an old-property game go into the wild without at least some kind of activation.
    If you haven't noticed, more than half of their catalogue is Interplay games. Given their financial state, said company aren't going to look a gift horse in the mouth and demand such terms on 5+ year old games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phatose View Post
    Freeware, no. Though, you are explicitly allowed to share the game with friends.
    Obviously any random person on the internet wasn't in mind when that was written. Also notice that the EULA had been changed when they released Freespace 2 on Gametap?

  25. #100
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    On that note, I got through trials, the first village, den, radclifff (sp?) and haven't heard any music yet (not even in world map). I hear normal sounds and ambiance, all movies work fine, but no music - is this normal?
    No, it's not. I've been playing through my original copy of Fallout 2 since getting all stoked from Scot Taffer's Fallout Boy thread. Every scene in that game has a music track attached to it.

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