TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 39 of 40 FirstFirst ... 491419242934353637383940 LastLast
Results 951 to 975 of 977

Thread: COSAS 2 Mission X - Available Now ... 8-15-08

  1. #951
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    Make sure you have the latest version of the file "NVScript.osm". You can download it here:
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134166
    (1st link)

    Put it where MissionX is installed (Thief2\ or Thief2\FMs\CoSaS2_MissionX_v113\ if that exists). It may also help if you put that file in the Mission X zip file so if you uninstall it, you can reinstall it without having to do this again.

  2. #952
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    If that's all it takes I'm going to be mad. There are people in scattered corners of the Internet who say "Yeah, MX is great, but if it doesn't work you're screwed."

  3. #953
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Okay, here's what I've been keeping secret for so long. If Klatremus didn't figure this out (and there are subtle hints in the readables), no one will, so I'll share it.

    When designing this level, we did not realize how thoroughly set Thief players were in their mode of play. We genuinely thought that about half the players would choose not to assist Rubber, because his rationale is so flimsy and he is violating the agreed-upon plan. But the lure of extra objectives drew people in, even though Rubber's cover is not blown.

    On the ground floor works and lives a good man named Grichemer, who manages the servants, almost all of whom are female, and who are mostly chosen for their charm and looks. Unlike most managers, he genuinely cares for the wellbeing of those under his employ. Now, the guards are kept under tight discipline, and in their own way care and look after the servants... drunk gamblers are not safe people for skimpily dressed servants to be around. However, horrible things have happened when valued guests bring their own guards, because the Ivory Rose ones are not allowed to punish the evil acts of private guards. And on the night of the mission, here comes Lord Raputo, whose personal soldiers are notorious for their rapacity when off duty. He chooses his men based on loyalty and competence alone.

    Grichemer does what he can for the evening and night crew. Many of the servants he keeps in the kitchen and dining areas, where guests will presumably not wander. A few hardy ones he assigns to the clubhouses, hoping that when Raputo's guards are in a group they will be safe (which is true, they are very disciplined). One he locks in the money changing room, and if you linger in that area, you will see that it is a very good thing she is locked in there. The rest, he fires the moment they come in the door, thinking that is the most he can do to keep them safe. If you wait in Grichemer's bedroom, you will occasionally see him go inside and agonize over the fact that he, too, will be fired in the morning. He left the hotel short-staffed on the most important of nights. What else could happen?

    Rubber has, as befitting an undercover agent, quickly established himself as hard-working and reliable. He takes the hard, tedious and late tasks without complaint, and is strangely calm around guards, both Ivory Rose and personal. And Rubber knows nothing about Grichemer's plan, because Grichemer intends to let the blame fall entirely on his own shoulders. When the Ivory Rose guards, who care for each other and for the servants, realize that many of the evening staff are missing, they go to Rubber to ask if anything is amiss. He is so very reliable and trustworthy. Rubber panics, grabs his mask, and asks for help.

    Now, when designing the "Raputo's scroll" objective, we wanted to reassure players about something. A good agent would not steal while on a mission, because that could give the presence of the entire team away. But a typical Thief player -- in fact, in turns out, practically every Thief player -- will steal anything shiny. Raputo's scroll indicates that he knows a plan is afoot, so even if gold is found suspiciously missing, it would not change Raputo's plans. Dante can steal as much as he likes, without it having any negative repercussions...

    ...Except for the good man Grichemer. It is, after all, a night when all the higher-ups are distracted, and the guards are required to focus on the top floors. If the morning comes, and it is discovered not only that he fired many of the staff, but also that copious gold went missing on his watch, then what happens to him will be worse than being fired.

    The correct way to play is to steal nothing, since that is what a good agent would do. But Dante, as the closing cutscene establishes, is a kleptomaniac.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 1st Jul 2018 at 23:19.

  4. #954
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2017
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Okay, here's what I've been keeping secret for so long. If Klatremus didn't figure this out (and there are subtle hints in the readables), no one will, so I'll share it.

    When designing this level, we did not realize how thoroughly set Thief players were in their mode of play. We genuinely thought that about half the players would choose not to assist Rubber, because his rationale is so flimsy and he is violating the agreed-upon plan. But the lure of extra objectives drew people in, even though Rubber's cover is not blown.

    On the ground floor works and lives a good man named Grichemer, who manages the servants, almost all of whom are female, and who are mostly chosen for their charm and looks. Unlike most managers, he genuinely cares for the wellbeing of those under his employ. Now, the guards are kept under tight discipline, and in their own way care and look after the servants... drunk gamblers are not safe people for skimpily dressed servants to be around. However, horrible things have happened when valued guests bring their own guards, because the Ivory Rose ones are not allowed to punish the evil acts of private guards. And on the night of the mission, here comes Lord Raputo, whose personal soldiers are notorious for their rapacity when off duty. He chooses his men based on loyalty and competence alone.

    Grichemer does what he can for the evening and night crew. Many of the servants he keeps in the kitchen and dining areas, where guests will presumably not wander. A few hardy ones he assigns to the clubhouses, hoping that when Raputo's guards are in a group they will be safe (which is true, they are very disciplined). One he locks in the money changing room, and if you linger in that area, you will see that it is a very good thing she is locked in there. The rest, he fires the moment they come in the door, thinking that is the most he can do to keep them safe. If you wait in Grichemer's bedroom, you will occasionally see him go inside and agonize over the fact that he, too, will be fired in the morning. He left the hotel short-staffed on the most important of nights. What else could happen?

    Rubber has, as befitting an undercover agent, quickly established himself as hard-working and reliable. He takes the hard, tedious and late tasks without complaint, and is strangely calm around guards, both Ivory Rose and personal. And Rubber knows nothing about Grichemer's plan, because Grichemer intends to let the blame fall entirely on his own shoulders. When the Ivory Rose guards, who care for each other and for the servants, realize that many of the evening staff are missing, they go to Rubber to ask if anything is amiss. He is so very reliable and trustworthy. Rubber panics, grabs his mask, and asks for help.

    Now, when designing the "Raputo's scroll" objective, we wanted to reassure players about something. A good agent would not steal while on a mission, because that could give the presence of the entire team away. But a typical Thief player -- in fact, in turns out, practically every Thief player -- will steal anything shiny. Raputo's scroll indicates that he knows a plan is afoot, so even if gold is found suspiciously missing, it would not change Raputo's plans. Dante can steal as much as he likes, without it having any negative repercussions...

    ...Except for the good man Grichemer. It is, after all, a night when all the higher-ups are distracted, and the guards are required to focus on the top floors. If the morning comes, and it is discovered not only that he fired many of the staff, but also that copious gold went missing on his watch, then what happens to him will be worse than being fired.

    The correct way to play is to steal nothing, since that is what a good agent would do. But Dante, as the closing cutscene establishes, is a kleptomaniac.
    When I was playing, what I wasn't sure about was how my actions would affect the mission later. I was always paranoid that people would notice missing loot, or that blackjacking someone would mean a later event wouldn't happen. I was always worried about playing it wrong. Did you plan for multiple playstyles when making the mission?

  5. #955
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    in order to open box you have to go to that power room and flip the right switch that then sets a timer for you to go open the right box and remove the fuse then close box,not sureif you got to put one back in ,does that help?

    alsoonly one of the switches has to be pulled ,and it has to be a certain one that leads to the box you got to open so you look at roof to follow wire to it then do that one

  6. #956
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2017
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    in order to open box you have to go to that power room and flip the right switch that then sets a timer for you to go open the right box and remove the fuse then close box,not sureif you got to put one back in ,does that help?

    alsoonly one of the switches has to be pulled ,and it has to be a certain one that leads to the box you got to open so you look at roof to follow wire to it then do that one
    I am absolutely sure it was the correct switch (second from the left) and the correct fuse box (though neither of the boxes would open or do anything when frobbed).

    I'll restart the mission and try the other objective instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by R Soul View Post
    Make sure you have the latest version of the file "NVScript.osm". You can download it here:
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134166
    (1st link)

    Put it where MissionX is installed (Thief2\ or Thief2\FMs\CoSaS2_MissionX_v113\ if that exists). It may also help if you put that file in the Mission X zip file so if you uninstall it, you can reinstall it without having to do this again.
    I put the file in the mission folder and restarted the mission, but now the mask doesn't work. I put the old NVScripts.osm file back and the mask still doesn't work. What's going on?
    Last edited by The Black Cat; 2nd Jul 2018 at 01:46.

  7. #957
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Cat View Post
    When I was playing, what I wasn't sure about was how my actions would affect the mission later. I was always paranoid that people would notice missing loot, or that blackjacking someone would mean a later event wouldn't happen. I was always worried about playing it wrong. Did you plan for multiple playstyles when making the mission?
    We were really clueless about how players would respond to MX. I mean, we labelled the hardest difficulty "Impossible" because we knew the mission could not be solved without hints. And then people jumped in on the highest difficulty anyway, and complained because all the agents gave crappy hints. I think players don't even realize there are different recorded lines for all three difficulties! The team is really nice and supportive on the lowest difficulty, and I always tested on that one just because they sounded so friendly. We also made sure to include all failure options right at the start, which is why you're faced with such an intimidating task list.

    Perhaps our single biggest mistake was making people feel that there was a time limit. We all knew that a time limit was a bad idea, so we didn't put one in. And yet, the rumor spread that there was one.

    We did plan for multiple playstyles. There is a canonical playstyle and a canonical ending (which is the best ending, by the way), but we included a blackjack and poison drops even though they made no sense from a story perspective. We put in lots of little dark nooks to hide bodies, if you wanted to play that way, but we also deliberately designed the mission so that you could ghost it. At the time "Perfect Supreme Ghost" wasn't a thing yet, though, and it's nigh miraculous that it's actually possible.

    I put the file in the mission folder and restarted the mission, but now the mask doesn't work. I put the old NVScripts.osm file back and the mask still doesn't work. What's going on?
    What version are you playing?
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 2nd Jul 2018 at 03:04.

  8. #958
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2017
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    We were really clueless about how players would respond to MX. I mean, we labelled the hardest difficulty "Impossible" because we knew the mission could not be solved without hints. And then people jumped in on the highest difficulty anyway, and complained because all the agents gave crappy hints. I think players don't even realize there are different recorded lines for all three difficulties! The team is really nice and supportive on the lowest difficulty, and I always tested on that one just because they sounded so friendly. We also made sure to include all failure options right at the start, which is why you're faced with such an intimidating task list.

    Perhaps our single biggest mistake was making people feel that there was a time limit. We all knew that a time limit was a bad idea, so we didn't put one in. And yet, the rumor spread that there was one.

    We did plan for multiple playstyles. There is a canonical playstyle and a canonical ending (which is the best ending, by the way), but we included a blackjack and poison drops even though they made no sense from a story perspective. We put in lots of little dark nooks to hide bodies, if you wanted to play that way, but we also deliberately designed the mission so that you could ghost it. At the time "Perfect Supreme Ghost" wasn't a thing yet, though, and it's nigh miraculous that it's actually possible.



    What version are you playing?
    I was playing version 1.13. I just tried the patch now, which I didn't notice originally, and the problem persists. I have no idea why it worked the first time I played but not now.

  9. #959
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Cat View Post
    I was playing version 1.13. I just tried the patch now, which I didn't notice originally, and the problem persists. I have no idea why it worked the first time I played but not now.
    Oh man, this brings back memories. >_>

    Are you playing the Steam version, and what loader are you using?

  10. #960
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2017
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Oh man, this brings back memories. >_>

    Are you playing the Steam version, and what loader are you using?
    I'm playing the GOG version with Tafferpatcher installed, and I'm using NewDarkLoader.

  11. #961
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Cat View Post
    I'm playing the GOG version with Tafferpatcher installed, and I'm using NewDarkLoader.
    Tafferpatcher may be the culprit, because it alters the game engine itself. Create a separate installation without Tafferpatcher, but version 1.18, and point NewDarkLoader to it temporarily (NDL should be able to handle multiple installs, but you'd have to ask R Soul for details). Then, try installing MX to the so-called "Old Dark" Thief.

  12. #962
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2017
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Tafferpatcher may be the culprit, because it alters the game engine itself. Create a separate installation without Tafferpatcher, but version 1.18, and point NewDarkLoader to it temporarily (NDL should be able to handle multiple installs, but you'd have to ask R Soul for details). Then, try installing MX to the so-called "Old Dark" Thief.
    I tried using a clean installation, but I still have the same issue. Testing it is becoming very annoying because of the very long conversation between Cloud, Raputo and Antonette. Vanilla GOG Thief 2 is not actually OldDark, it's NewDark 1.25.

    Any more ideas?

  13. #963
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Cat View Post
    Any more ideas?
    Upload some savegames. We can load it in DromEd.

  14. #964
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Cat View Post
    Vanilla GOG Thief 2 is not actually OldDark, it's NewDark 1.25.
    What. That is... very unwise of them.

    Are you averse to torrents? At this point, a clean ISO may be your best option. Since you own Thief via GOG, there is no ethical quandary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    Upload some savegames. We can load it in DromEd.
    You do not have permission from the CoSaS team to attempt to bugfix MX. Yes, the CoSaS team still exists. Black Cat, please do not upload your savegames.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 2nd Jul 2018 at 06:11.

  15. #965
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Perhaps our single biggest mistake was making people feel that there was a time limit. We all knew that a time limit was a bad idea, so we didn't put one in. And yet, the rumor spread that there was one.
    I'm a little confused on this point. I've failed this mission several times because I didn't cut the power to the elevator in time. How does this work, if not a time limit? What's the trigger?

  16. #966
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    You do not have permission from the CoSaS team to attempt to bugfix MX. Yes, the CoSaS team still exists. Black Cat, please do not upload your savegames.
    I don't need any permission, since I don't want to bugfix anything.
    I want to figure out which scripts don't work.

  17. #967
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    You do not have permission from the CoSaS team to attempt to bugfix MX. Yes, the CoSaS team still exists. Black Cat, please do not upload your savegames.
    What's with the hardline stance AF? Unna has helped to fix a lot of broken missions over the years, and I think it's safe to say they had no plans to release Mission X version 1.14 against your wishes. I think you're forgetting what community you're a part of here.

  18. #968
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    @Anarchic Fox

    Dml’s do not fix bugs. Olddark and Newdark are 2 very different beasts, they read the instructions that authors write in different ways which means when playing via Newdark some actions within FM’s act differently than they did as the author intended when the mission was made using Olddark

    What dml’s do, are to give the thief engine tweaked instructions to Newdark, thus making Newdark read the authors instructions as the author intended when they made the mission via olddark.

    No optimisation occurs, the zip file is left totally alone.

    Dml’s allow modern players to experience the original mission without encountering glitches that playing via Newdark can introduce into the mission.
    Last edited by fortuni; 5th Jul 2018 at 13:39.

  19. #969
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i am going to replay this mission and see if i come across any problems,yes i will do all variety of objective's

    will post results


    ok everything went perfect now that i am refreshed on mission this is how to do elevator power shut down

    get fake fuse,go to room with 4 switches, second switch from left,then run to fuse on right open it take out fuse ,put in fake fuse,close fuse box,run back to power room and flip switch back you ,,let her know you did it,objective complete

    that is 100% how that objective is done
    Last edited by downwinder; 6th Jul 2018 at 22:48.

  20. #970
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Thanks Downwinder! Though I wasn’t asking how to do it——just trying to understand what AF means by saying that there isn’t a time limit. I know it’s possible to lose by failing to deactivate the elevator in time, so if it isn’t time pressure, I don’t know what to call it. Perhaps there’s some other trigger?

  21. #971
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i was on impossible setting i would guess you have to complete it by the time the other guy get into elevator,although i did not rush i usually clear out entire lower floor before doing basement,and even in mission description it said something about generous time limit,i would have to agree


    was played on fmsel,with all updated stuff for thief 2/etc


    yeah i am pretty sure do it before guy gets into elevator to shut off the camera,or i would think he would get crushed=mission ends
    Last edited by downwinder; 7th Jul 2018 at 02:27.

  22. #972
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    What's with the hardline stance AF? Unna has helped to fix a lot of broken missions over the years, and I think it's safe to say they had no plans to release Mission X version 1.14 against your wishes. I think you're forgetting what community you're a part of here.
    I haven't been part of this community for more than a decade, sadly, and I was operating on old instincts. There were many occasions where minor decisions I made early on led to tens, or even hundreds, of hours of scripting and bugfixing labor. The same thing happened when I designed the objectives for 9YS. Eventually I felt so guilty about this disparity that I withdrew entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by fortuni View Post
    Dml’s do not fix bugs. Olddark and Newdark are 2 very different beasts, they read the instructions that authors write in different ways which means when playing via Newdark some actions within FM’s act differently than they did as the author intended when the mission was made using Olddark.
    This is the first time I've encountered the term "dml," so that goes to show how out of touch I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    Thanks Downwinder! Though I wasn’t asking how to do it——just trying to understand what AF means by saying that there isn’t a time limit.
    There isn't a time limit on the entire mission, only on the first objectives. When testing, we assumed that players who ran afoul of the objective time limit would restart and use their newfound knowledge of the hotel to do the objective right. We didn't realize how dependant people were on their save files. After release, the rumor quickly spread that the final objective also had a time limit, even though it didn't.

    That being said, it's been so long that I forgot the first objectives had a time limit too. It was thirty or forty minutes, I think? At the time I thought that was absurdly generous.

    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    ...that is 100% how that objective is done.
    No, it isn't. You're not supposed to flip the switch back on, because that alerts Pomok that someone has tampered with the system, and his alert state increases. They're fuseboxes, and operate like real-world ones do. When a fuse trips, the corresponding switch automatically flips. You're supposed to get out of the dangerous area while you wait for Pomok to flip the switch back and cause the explosion. If you want, you can leave the basement entirely and wait in the vents. That's what I always did. By causing the explosion yourself, you alert the basement guards that there is a saboteur, and their alert state is much higher than it would be if you let Pomok do it.

    ...Did nobody at all realize this? Oh dear Lord. Sorry to rag on you, Downwinder. I just didn't realize how prevalent this mistake was.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 19th Jul 2018 at 14:57.

  23. #973
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2017
    Location: New Zealand
    I have managed to get Mission X to work. However, the walkthrough states that there is an invisibility potion behind the cabinet in the theater dressing room, but I can't find it. I am playing on the lowest difficulty. Did I read it wrong? Am I in the wrong place?

  24. #974
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Cat View Post
    I have managed to get Mission X to work. However, the walkthrough states that there is an invisibility potion behind the cabinet in the theater dressing room, but I can't find it. I am playing on the lowest difficulty. Did I read it wrong? Am I in the wrong place?
    Don't use the walkthrough. Not only is it wrong in many regards, it tells you to play in a way that is not fun. I'm glad you got the mission to work, though.

  25. #975
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2017
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Don't use the walkthrough. Not only is it wrong in many regards, it tells you to play in a way that is not fun. I'm glad you got the mission to work, though.
    Is there a way to access the Monarch Suite besides the strategy described in the walkthrough?

Page 39 of 40 FirstFirst ... 491419242934353637383940 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •