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Thread: T2 Multiplayer Beta Released

  1. #926
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Whoa everybody! Sounds like a lot of us are making assumptions about Hound's willingness and ability to commit time and energy towards this. She said she was interested in learning the source and maybe trying to make some changes, but I get the impression some of us are assuming that she's going to be willing and able to jump in and fix major shortcomings, implement new feature requests and basically become the new Tos when it comes to MP. I understand it's exciting to see the source up on github and have people talking about working on it, but I think we should wait for her to reply here about how much she feels she is able to do, and not pour lots of heavy expectations on the situation. Also, I should point out that porting this/making it compatible with NewDark would be difficult if not impossible, since we don't have the NewDark source code.

  2. #927
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    Also, I should point out that porting this/making it compatible with NewDark would be difficult if not impossible, since we don't have the NewDark source code.
    I thought T2MP was originally written without any access to the source of either newdark or the engine prior, and instead relied on figuring out how the buggy multiplayer in SS2 worked, to write something which was approximately the same thing but for T2?

    Anyhow, I think you're correct that people are jumping to conclusions here, when we don't know exactly how much Hound is willing or able to do yet with code that nobody has really done anything with apart from Tos. Still, what with the code now being posted to Github (thanks Tos), I think there's a good chance now for people being able to work with the code in a way that allows for collaboration, if that were ever to happen. There's definitely alot of things that need to be fixed with T2MP, so I think the goal people should have right now is to look at T2MP, figure out how to clean it, get it to compile and maybe with something besides Microsoft's compiler (not that there's anything wrong with it, but it limits development to owners of the software, when we could have code that is more compliant with stuff like GCC, LLVM or whatever). Then bug fixing and feature requests will likely come about when the code has became adequate enough for development by more than just one or two people. Course, this is simply my estimation of what would have to be done, and I admit, I'm no developer.

    I do hope that whatever Hound plans to do, that she knows she has our support here. We also really can't thank Tos enough for having released the source code to begin with in any condition, as it means we have a starting point to go on here as opposed to having to try and redo what he did (which he had the knowledge to do, and the time he decided to invest in figuring out how SS2 handled multiplayer).

  3. #928
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2012
    Whoa, didn't expect to see this many replies! Sorry for the delay, midterms and illness had kept me at bay...

    I plan to try and work on the source much more after the end of June, when my finals are over. I've only begun taking a look at things for the time being. I definitely can't make any promises that I can take this up full-time; as I said, I'm just a budding code monkey if anything. Syntax and little basics aren't an issue for me; the matter is piecing together and restructuring the larger elements at hand from what I make of it. Admittedly, this kind of project is something I've never worked on before, and because of that, yeah, it's going to take me a while to really become familiar with some of the tools and the tricks involved. (Plus the fact that my 3rd year of uni is starting in a few months...things could move a lot slower than I anticipate because of that.) I will try to keep this up as a side project as much as I can and for as long as I can, but Yandros is right, I will probably be doing minor work for now, partially as a learning experience, before I can even consider fully spearheading the entire project.

    It's because I know I mostly have only class-based experience that I wanted it to be on Github- there's lots of savvy coders out there who have plenty of real-world experience who are infinitely more knowledgeable than I am. There's also lots of people like me who are on there who are just starting out but are willing to learn and work on this as well. If anyone else wants to contribute, they'd be free to! Like demagogue said, the code is GPL-licensed, free as in freedom and all that good stuff. I just didn't quite feel comfortable uploading Tos' code to my own Github, not at least without his permission. Now that he's put it up there (big thanks Tos!), I can fork the repo etc and play around with it a bit.

    I'm glad to know that people are still playing this! Niborius, thanks for the list of the bugs- it'll help steer me in the right direction of where to focus on first. So keep them coming! I probably can't fix every single bug especially in the short time I have before fall semester, so having a concrete list of bugs would be very handy to bundle in with releases, and especially for others who want to join in the development like FireMage. As for NewDark compatibility, what Yandros said probably applies for the most part. Not having the NewDark source code is going to make things difficult. Maybe I can get in touch with Le Corbeau, since my French is pretty good. I just haven't used it in a while.

    An interesting thought, Albert. I'll admit that I'm mostly familiar only with GCC (I mostly work in Linux environments) and a bit of VC++, but I am aware of the issues surrounding different compilers. I guess Visual C++ is used mostly because of Visual Studio's ease of use. Something else to look into, I suppose.

    And of course, thanks for the support everyone! I'll try my best to get some good changes going, and not to get hopes down, but it's entirely possible I got a lot more than I bargained for (in which case I'll make sure to reach out to others and get the word out on the status of the project). I can't promise much for now, but I hope I can get a few developments going to at least get the wheels set in motion.

    P.S FireMage said PM'ing me doesn't work, so my email is adrikim AT umich dot edu. Mods, feel free to take that out if I'm breaking any rules, I'm still a newb at forum-style communities

  4. #929
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    Good luck Hound, and thanks for taking a look at this project. I've been hoping for MP compatibility with Newdark since it was released.

  5. #930
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2012
    Hi Hound,

    Just curious, but have you been able to see yet to see if there is a possibility to get Thief 2 Multiplayer to NewDark?

  6. #931
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Earth
    I see I missed quite a few posts here.

    Something to keep in mind here is that problems with missions (specifically third party missions and not the OMs) are largely due to custom scripts. A mission which does not use a custom script is more likely to run with little to no issues than one with a custom script. I experienced this issue first hand when trying to build a multiplayer mission using Nameless Voice's NVscript.

    Since T2 multiplayer was not set up to be compatible with custom scripts, the spawning method I used in my mission failed if memory serves and I ended up having to use a more complex method that did not require the use of his scripts.

    Problems with custom scripts were apparent when I tried to make Yandros' A Thief's Holiday (2004) multiplayer compatible. He had a custom script in that mission that causes items to not be frobable by anyone other than the host IIRC. We didn't play last year, but the previous few years my friend and I would play A Thief's Holiday every Christmas and because of the custom scripts(s) involved, there were issues present while playing this mission. For example, cookies would disappear or be unfrobable, only the host could pick up certain items...

    Anyway, sorry I'm rambling on - the point is, everyone should expect fan missions to have problems unless Hound or another coder can make it so that custom scripts such as NVScript are compatible with T2MP. I know there are inherent bugs with the current build of T2MP, but there is also complications when a mission relies on a custom script that T2MP does not recognize.

    I do hope something comes out of this, but we should definitely not get our hopes up and set too high expectations of Hound or anyone else. I think a great first patch (or at least a second or third patch maybe) from a new coder would be adding support for NVScript specifically. I don't know how feasible that is, but I think something like that is more do-able than expecting T2mp to be ported to Newdark's executable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert
    I thought T2MP was originally written without any access to the source of either newdark or the engine prior, and instead relied on figuring out how the buggy multiplayer in SS2 worked, to write something which was approximately the same thing but for T2?
    I can't quite recall, but if memory serves my understanding is that yes, he looked at SS2's existing implementation - but I thought he still had some sort of source code to look at.. Just not T2's source code, but SS2's? Or perhaps I'm confusing myself with the source code that was found on a dreamcast for "Deep Cover," which is entirely unrelated to T2MP.

    I think this is simplifying the issue though, as again if memory serves, T2MP hooks itself into the existing thief 2.exe, but because newdark is a new EXE, things are not in the same place as before and without source code, as Yandros says, it's next to impossible to implement. Now, if we could get Le Corbeau's input in on this with the source code that would be something.

    Update: Something I was just thinking about in regards to Newdark - I thought we did have the source code for it, or am I getting confused with the Thief 2 1.18 source code?
    Last edited by sNeaksieGarrett; 24th Mar 2016 at 01:03.
    My Thief FM Website
    "Those pies had enough grease to drop a Burrick!"

  7. #932
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    Update: Something I was just thinking about in regards to Newdark - I thought we did have the source code for it, or am I getting confused with the Thief 2 1.18 source code?
    To my knowledge there has been no source code release for NewDark. Le Corbeau is keeping it closely guarded I guess. You are probably thinking of the source leaks from 2010 or thereabouts, which were the OldDark code.

  8. #933
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Does it matter that LeCorbeau's code builds off the OldDark source, and since I don't believe his (/her/their) new code touches multiplayer, the OldCode is probably in about the same state as the New? Although I suppose multiplayer may require changing some of the core gameplay code too, to make MP work, which he's changed a lot. So knowing what he's done under the hood might be pretty relevant after all.

  9. #934
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Nevermind, it looks like LeCorbeau actually got Tos's multiplayer code in with his latest update, you just have to switch it on through the config. How did I not notice this?!

    This is awesome!
    I made a video of it in action here.

  10. #935
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    I think a great first patch (or at least a second or third patch maybe) from a new coder would be adding support for NVScript specifically. I don't know how feasible that is, but I think something like that is more do-able than expecting T2mp to be ported to Newdark's executable.
    This is the wrong way around. It isn't that multiplayer isn't compatible with NVScript, but rather that NVScript isn't compatible with multiplayer. There are issues with it in multiplayer in SS2, too.
    That's unlikely to change, though - at least not by my hands.

  11. #936
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    Nevermind, it looks like LeCorbeau actually got Tos's multiplayer code in with his latest update, you just have to switch it on through the config. How did I not notice this?!
    Man, Corbeau is very modest for not including mention of it in their update log.

  12. #937
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Must be a kind of Alpha test.

  13. #938
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Too bad MP only has 8-bit support.

  14. #939
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2012
    Even if it's a no-go to port the multiplayer patch to Newdark, it would be still very nice to see an update for the MP patch at all, seeing as there are still some critical bugs, like the rope arrows that can't be retrieved back, or the infinite loot bug. The game actually runs fine (Widescreen and all that) on OldDark, even on Windows 8, if you follow this guide I made earlier: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145386.

    I just noticed however that the link to my guide is down but I will provide a new, permanent link ASAP.

  15. #940
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    Well sad as it is to say, T2MP lacks a devoted developer. I thought someone had moved it over to Github, but maybe I'm wrong? Anyways, the forum user Hound had vouched to possibly check the game out, but that was almost a year ago now and I suspect they got busy or something. Perhaps T2MP proved a bit much for them, which is also possible.

    I think if anything is going to happen with T2MP, it's going to be a Corbeau miracle. That's our best bet, anyhow.

  16. #941
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2012
    You are correct, he uploaded the source code on the previous page in this topic, here is the link https://github.com/ncblakely/thiefmp

    But that won't do any good for NewDark as AFAIK NewDark uses a heavily modified source code of Thief 2, so, like you mentioned, unless Le Corbeau does something about multiplayer on his own, or unless he releases the source code of NewDark, we won't be getting a NewDark MP update probably.

    If anyone is interested in having a look at the MP code to do some bugfixing then that is still always welcome of course!

  17. #942
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: Slovakia - Zemplín region
    I suppose it would be too much to hope for if someone from the francophone fan forums contacted Le Corbeau and asked him/her whether T2MP could get a potential NewDark reworking ?

    Just to give the people here at TTLG an idea of whether it's doable at this point.

  18. #943
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i got a question,if i got the game would i be able to hang out with others on it and just explore around?

  19. #944
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2012
    how do i get fan mission to start with MP? i read the readme for MP 218 version and this is what it says:

    "To load an existing multiplayer save or play a fan mission, select “None” for the starting mission. You will remain on the main menu after hosting the server, and can choose to load a save, or select New Game to play a fan mission that has been installed with DarkLoader or a similar utility."

    so my understanding is that once i start game, alt tab to MP window, host and option dropdown menu for starting mission, i choose "none" instead of "mission 1-15" or "saved game". however None isn't an option in the dropdown menu, there is no "none".

    can anyone please help i am dying to try some FM in multiplayer.

  20. #945
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Earth
    If memory serves, which it probably doesn't: I thought you could pick the fan mission within the drop down. First question though, did you make sure you installed your fan mission before launching t2mp? Secondly, did you check to see if the FM was listed in the drop down instead of none?

  21. #946
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    If memory serves, which it probably doesn't: I thought you could pick the fan mission within the drop down. First question though, did you make sure you installed your fan mission before launching t2mp? Secondly, did you check to see if the FM was listed in the drop down instead of none?
    ah i havent try that. so i need to install it with darkloader, then launch the MP and host, then menu drop down will have the none option?

  22. #947
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Earth
    yes, the fan mission needs to be installed already. T2MP cannot detect FMs itself. If you have a thief 2 1.18 install with t2mp and darkloader set up to that directory, then just install an FM through darkloader and when you next launch t2mp, you can alt tab out and should be able to host with the FM.

  23. #948
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    yes, the fan mission needs to be installed already. T2MP cannot detect FMs itself. If you have a thief 2 1.18 install with t2mp and darkloader set up to that directory, then just install an FM through darkloader and when you next launch t2mp, you can alt tab out and should be able to host with the FM.
    ok so heres my findings after trying few more things.

    -if i install the fm with darkloader, run thief via darkloader, it goes to the blackscreen issue.
    -if i install the fm with darkloader, run thief via darkloader, then go to multiplayer window and start mission 1, samething blackscreen issue but with additional error window poped up lol.

    both methods will not show FM or option "none" in the drop down menu for starting mission. i have heard people saying .fam is not loaded or incorrect, or to use the new darkloader so i'll be trying that.

  24. #949
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Earth
    Mission 1? By that do you mean thief 2 mission, Running Interference? I think when you install an FM, it breaks thief's ability to play from mission 1 but I could be wrong about this.

    Does sound like either something is not set up properly or you are having a compatibility issue. Are you able to load thief 2 and go to a mission when you use darkloader to return thief to its original state?

    And crazy thought, have you tried loading thief after installing an FM through the exe or a shortcut, instead of hitting "play thief" within darkloader?


    EDIT:

    I just tried loading a thief install with an FM installed and when I go to the host screen, I see the mission selected. (See screenshot for reference below) In fact, it's the only item within the list. What do you see when you go to the host screen?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  25. #950
    Does it work for you guys? I can start server on my PC, but the client cannot join in LAN (every other game is work on LAN in MP except this.
    When the laptop is the client it says: Join failed: COM initialization failed (80040154) >>> PC doesn't get any error
    When laptop is the server: Host Failed: COM initialization failed (80070005) >>> PC cannot join of course.
    Server browser doesn't work. Tried to join with LAN and the with the normal IP address (port 5198 is forwarded)

    Single Player works perfect. Same game, same files. I tried to reinstall the MP patch, but nothing changed. Any help would be great, I would like to play it with my child in LAN.

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