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Thread: General Fan Mission Review And Discussion Megathread

  1. #1501
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: UK
    I still haven't yet checked out The Dark Mod, but I guess blackjack difficulty should be dependant on the chosen difficulty mode? I can probably see why if this was intended though, especially considering it being aimed at Thief fans who probably find Thief a bit on the easy side nowadays. And you've got to admit that a frontal-blackjack is a rather cheap move.

  2. #1502
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by quakis View Post
    I still haven't yet checked out The Dark Mod, but I guess blackjack difficulty should be dependant on the chosen difficulty mode? I can probably see why if this was intended though, especially considering it being aimed at Thief fans who probably find Thief a bit on the easy side nowadays. And you've got to admit that a frontal-blackjack is a rather cheap move.
    Sure it may be a cheap move, but so is circle strafing a fully alert guard in a dark room and KO'ing him while he's chopping at you. Both of these things I relied on in the first two games to help me get through some of the tougher missions being that ghosting isn't my most preferred playstyle and it being a last resort type move. I found it more being clever than cheap, really Alot of the gameplay fun for me in some levels that are meant to be especially difficult is setting up the situation of a wide open completely dark room to lure foes into should I be caught so that I'm not instantly mashing the reload button. It can add quite a bit of heart racing excitement, trust me.

    If The Dark Mod is going to be aimed soley at those who want 'expert' difficulty all the time I may not be a part of that audience, which would be a shame as I really enjoy it thus far for the most part. I think cutting out an entire part of your audience and only catering to the most hardcore would be a big mistake - and moreso when you spend years and hundreds of hours of work and effort on such a big undertaking.

    So my vote is for at least bringing back lean-forward blackjacking (when in total darkness at least) and to at least decrease AI sensitivity and increase blackjack range in lower difficulties. Otherwise I'm just going to cheat using the console's "notarget" command to keep the AI off my back - combat and blackjacking as it is are far too frustrating for me to enjoy.

  3. #1503
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    It's quite likely that not everyone has seen all of our statements, forums get rather messy afterall, but when it comes to difficulty levels...they are among the features not finished in our beta 1.0. Still much to do, which is why we labeled the release as a beta.

    When you say the AI needs tweaking in their reaction to footsteps, do you mean they should hear less or more? Personally, I find their level of hearing to be acceptable, but it's their 'instant' reactions that make it seem like they're super human. I think it's more an issue with the AI ramping up quickly, than it is their hearing and sight.

    We're tweaking the 'player heard' footstep volumes a tad, but not too much. As in Thief 1/2, the player heard footstep volume is not the AI heard volume. It's feedback for the player to allow them to hear what surface they are on. In TDS, many complained that the footsteps were too soft. No way to win it seems, but perhaps we'll find a middle ground between classic Thief and TDS in those volumes. I think the whole issue with them is mainly one of interpretation, and that people think the volumes are what the AI hear too. They're meant to sound like 'your own' footsteps, as if you were right there making them. I think T1/2 did this exceptionally well.

    Send me a list of your suggestions by PM and I'll take them to the team for discussion.

  4. #1504
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    It's quite likely that not everyone has seen all of our statements, forums get rather messy afterall, but when it comes to difficulty levels...they are among the features not finished in our beta 1.0. Still much to do, which is why we labeled the release as a beta.

    When you say the AI needs tweaking in their reaction to footsteps, do you mean they should hear less or more? Personally, I find their level of hearing to be acceptable, but it's their 'instant' reactions that make it seem like they're super human. I think it's more an issue with the AI ramping up quickly, than it is their hearing and sight.

    We're tweaking the 'player heard' footstep volumes a tad, but not too much. As in Thief 1/2, the player heard footstep volume is not the AI heard volume. It's feedback for the player to allow them to hear what surface they are on. In TDS, many complained that the footsteps were too soft. No way to win it seems, but perhaps we'll find a middle ground between classic Thief and TDS in those volumes. I think the whole issue with them is mainly one of interpretation, and that people think the volumes are what the AI hear too. They're meant to sound like 'your own' footsteps, as if you were right there making them. I think T1/2 did this exceptionally well.

    Send me a list of your suggestions by PM and I'll take them to the team for discussion.
    I don't think I can word my suggestions any better than I did here in my initial review of The Dark Mod

    Whether it be AI heard volume, reaction time or what have you - it just seems as if the 'window' to successfully blackjack a guard or even a servant is much too low. Combine that with the superhuman reaction time you speak of and the difficulty of melee combat (that certainly seems to need a tweak) and its a formula made more for frustration than fun. Again, I say these things because I want so badly for The Dark Mod to be as solid as possible so that it will catch on, as I really enjoy the rest of it. Mantling in The Dark Mod is probably the most fun I've ever had playing a thief style game - it really is pretty much perfectly done.

  5. #1505
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: UK
    Quote Originally Posted by SneakyJack View Post
    Sure it may be a cheap move, but so is circle strafing a fully alert guard in a dark room and KO'ing him while he's chopping at you. Both of these things I relied on in the first two games to help me get through some of the tougher missions being that ghosting isn't my most preferred playstyle and it being a last resort type move.
    Oh don't get me wrong, I use those two moves a LOT myself as well. It's so cheap I feel a bit dirty doing it at times. I for the most part, try to ghost a mission, but on an occasion, I get sick of backtracking and ghost past the same guards, I'll just lure them and knock them out one by one. In Rowena's Curse, in the front hall, I lured a bazillion guards into the dark areas and using the frontal-blackjack move. There was a huge pile of bodies by the time I finished.

  6. #1506
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    I'm not sure if the makers of The Dark Mod are reading reviews before their next release - but blackjacking difficulty, combat difficulty and AI sensitivity seem to be the main issues that myself and many others are experiencing - so I'm hoping it gets tweaked.
    We're certainly planning on making difficulty sliders for combat (much like there is currently for lockpicking) but I don't know if that will make it into the next update or not. It's interesting that you complain about the combat in this particular mission though; as a final playtest, I went rambo-style through the entire thief's lair, and was able to massacre all the AI with just my sword in minutes, taking only a single hit in the process (the armoured guards would no doubt be another matter). I guess it's a matter of practice.

    Footstep sounds will definitely be lowered for the next update; that has probably been the single most common complaint, and I also agree they sound much too loud (to the player). I don't feel they are too loud to the AI, however...if anything AI should react more to the sound of running footsteps than they currently do (though again, AI acuity will probably get a difficulty slider at some point).

    As for blackjacking, I definitely don't see what the issue is there. I find blackjacking in TDM fairly easy. Not as easy as Thief, where you could hit someone in the toe and knock them out, but certainly not difficult, as long as the AI isn't already alert. Sometimes it looks like you have to get closer to an AI than you actually do, but the range is actually pretty generous, IMO.

  7. #1507
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    I think the footstep sounds themselves are fine, they could just be toned down a bit in volume.

  8. #1508
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Springheel View Post
    We're certainly planning on making difficulty sliders for combat (much like there is currently for lockpicking) but I don't know if that will make it into the next update or not. It's interesting that you complain about the combat in this particular mission though; as a final playtest, I went rambo-style through the entire thief's lair, and was able to massacre all the AI with just my sword in minutes, taking only a single hit in the process (the armoured guards would no doubt be another matter). I guess it's a matter of practice.

    Footstep sounds will definitely be lowered for the next update; that has probably been the single most common complaint, and I also agree they sound much too loud (to the player). I don't feel they are too loud to the AI, however...if anything AI should react more to the sound of running footsteps than they currently do (though again, AI acuity will probably get a difficulty slider at some point).

    As for blackjacking, I definitely don't see what the issue is there. I find blackjacking in TDM fairly easy. Not as easy as Thief, where you could hit someone in the toe and knock them out, but certainly not difficult, as long as the AI isn't already alert. Sometimes it looks like you have to get closer to an AI than you actually do, but the range is actually pretty generous, IMO.
    I was trying to give you the perspective of a 'casual' player that isn't a fan of hardcore ghosting or a part of TDM team - perhaps you don't see 'an issue' because you are a mission builder and are much more used to the Dark Mod than alot of us are.

    There arent alot of people nowadays that have hours to devote to hitting the reload button over and over again simply because they arent an expert thief - they enjoy the games and The Dark Mod but simply cant waste that time on something that borders on frustration. Hopefully suggestions are taken by the mod team further than just "I don't see a problem with it". Ive had a few folks send me PM's saying my review was right on and that they agree combat and blackjacking are more frustrating than they need to be but they were also hopeful that it would be adjusted. Different strokes for different folks, as they say. When you spend so much time developing the mod its easy to lose touch and forget that you've had intricate experience with it and of course this stuff will be easy for you.

  9. #1509
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2009
    I don't consider myself an expert Thief player (I'm not a ghoster / perfect thiefer, that's for sure) and I don't understand this talk of a blackjack "sweet spot," nor does the range seem shorter than the old games. My feeling is the same as Springheel's, and I'm certainly not on the team!

    I do think that the blackjack animation doesn't have a lot of weight to it (there's no clear "thud" moment like in TDP/TMA, the swing just kinda goes whoosh and the guard gets boffed), but if anything you're able to knock guards out when the animation makes it feel like you should have missed.
    Last edited by Wormrat; 26th Nov 2009 at 20:47.

  10. #1510
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    Hopefully suggestions are taken by the mod team further than just "I don't see a problem with it".
    Well, I agreed with you on two of the three...am I not entitled to disagree with you on something?

    We do listen to all feedback, but there just hasn't been much complaining about blackjacking since it was overhauled (post-St.Lucia). There is one issue with hitting low ceilings or door frames when swinging, which we're looking into fixing, but frankly I'd be surprised if we did anything at this point to make blackjacking easier than it already is (I would like to add that "thud moment" that Wormrat mentioned, however).

  11. #1511
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Springheel View Post
    Well, I agreed with you on two of the three...am I not entitled to disagree with you on something?
    Of course you can. I feel blackjacking and combat are still very rough around the edges, you do not. Obviously your opinion carries more weight with you being on the development team so I'll just say that you know how I feel and I know how you feel and we'll agree to disagree I was just trying to give some feedback for a mod that is still in beta.

    Luckily there is always the god mode cheat should I need it

  12. #1512
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    I agree with SneakyJack that especially melee combat and AI reacting lightning fast are just too damn hard for normal (not novice! Been playing Thief for 10 years now) players at the moment. Blackjacking should be made a bit easier, too (bigger range, possible forward blackjacking with forward-leaning etc). I agree adding "thud moment" animation would be nice. Also, AI reaction to player running behind them should be slower/lower (or made an option), to give us a chance to blackjack.

    @Springheel: I think 2 sides (mod developers and players who just got their hands on TDM) need to understand each other and this thing: as mod developer working on it for ~5 years probably you're bound to know it intimately and got all that numerical "behind-the-scenes" knowledge on various AI/hit etc settings (plus lots of practice) making the game pracically too easy for you. It's normal and natural. But it's also normal and please understand new players who just started dabbling with the mod, that the don't have all this behind-the-scenes knowledge on internal mod workings (how various things are set up) AND practice, making things too HARD/frustrating at the moment. In 5 years time, we'll probably find the mod almost as easy as it is for you now. Anyway, we shouldn't be almost forced to revert to using cheats if we don't need them in any Thief/System Shock/DeusEx games.

    IMO good compromise would be adding as many difficulty sliders as possible (with at least 5 different options - from very easy to very hard - or just linear scaling) for such things like:

    - lockpicking (already there)
    - melee combat difficulty
    - AI reaction times to player's actions/sensitivity to players footsteps sounds
    - blackjacking difficulty/range
    Last edited by Hiatus; 27th Nov 2009 at 08:46.

  13. #1513
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Last night, I finished replaying Christine's The Night Falcon series (the original one, though Curse of The Falcon will probably be up next), so I thought I'd write up a little summary of my feelings after a second playthrough. Since SneakyJack has already reviewed this campaign once, with screenshots and everything, I'm not going to go into as much detail - think of this more as a "second opinion".


    The Night Falcon by Christine

    This campaign revolves around Garrett's attempts to get hold of a legendary artifact called The Night Falcon. Essentially, the first six missions are all about obtaining information and tools needed to retrieve the artifact, and in the finale, you will finally go after the Falcon itself.

    Based on what I've read about this campaign, it actually started out as a team project, but after the other members gradually dropped out, Christine ended up finishing it by herself. Although it's hard to tell exactly who has done what for the campaign, having had several authors working on it probably explains some of the diversity. Apparently, they also had to cut out some of the originally planned plot.

    The overall plot essentially acts as the glue that holds the individual missions together; other than the fact that the stuff you steal during the first six missions will eventually be useful in the last one, I felt that in terms of plot, the connections between the missions weren't particularly strong. Although there was some continuity between the maps (as SJ mentioned in his review), I still see The Night Falcon ultimately as a set of separate missions linked together rather than as a single story that progresses from the beginning to the end, like T2X (yes, I know the comparison isn't entirely fair, but FM campaigns of this size don't exactly grow on trees); sometimes, you can immerse yourself in an individual mission to the extent that you momentarily forget about the overall plot. But as mentioned above, this slight looseness is probably at least partly due to the development history mentioned above.

    As far as gameplay is concerned, this campaign isn't trying to reinvent Thief or do any flashy gimmicks: Like most of Christine's missions, this is about the good ol' traditional Thief gameplay we all know and love. Most missions are human-themed (city, mansion, cathedral), but there are also nods towards TDP in the form of undead, burricks and mysterious, long-forgotten tunnels and ruins. In other words, The Night Falcon is very much in the spirit of the original Thief games, which I find quite refreshing at a time when it sometimes seems like FM authors are trying to outdo each other by adding all sorts of fancy, new things in an effort to push the limits of DromEd. The same goes for the visuals and audio - some custom textures have been used, but the overall look is still very reminiscent of the original T2, and I mean that as a compliment. In this campaign, gameplay is king and all other elements are subordinate to it.

    Unlike some other campaigns, The Night Falcon lets you do shopping between missions, meaning you actually get to enjoy the benefits of your hard-earned loot, which I really like: It gives me a lot more motivation to go after that one extra coin stack or candlestick. The only problem there is that the loot totals in Christine's missions are way higher than in the OM's - sometimes nearly ten times as high - but the equipment prices haven't been adjusted accordingly. As a result, you can start several missions with five gas arrows, ten flash bombs and 20 water arrows (plus whatever you find during the mission itself), which I thought was overkill, considering that the overall difficulty isn't particularly high, anyway. Of course, nobody's forcing you to use them (in fact, I usually ended up wasting most of my equipment), but the unchanged price level did seem like a bit of an oversight. And now, to the individual missions:

    Shopping Walk: The first mission opens with a very familiar premise: You're out of money and the rent is due, so it's time to hit the streets and make some cash. The Night Falcon doesn't really play any part in this mission yet - the information gathering for that starts in earnest in the next one.

    Shopping Walk is a fun city mission. In terms of plot, it's basically just "grab a couple of special items and rob everyone blind", but the gameplay is so entertaining that the lack of a strong plot doesn't really matter. There are lots of buildings to enter, lots of loot to find, and the mission design supports different styles of gameplay - although I'm not a ghoster myself, I'm pretty sure that this mission - and the whole series, in fact - is ghostable. The only thing really missing from the most varied city mission gameplay is vertical movement, i.e. the action takes place mostly on ground level and there's not a whole lot of rope arrowing involved, but that's a very minor complaint. An entertaining start for the campaign.

    Lord Wellhofer:Lord Wellhofer's mansion is where you really start your search for the Night Falcon. The entrance to the mansion is through an abandoned mine, so there's a little cave exploration part at the beginning.

    Lord Wellhofer is a quintessential mansion mission, with guards, servants and nobles. The readables will flesh out the character of Lord Wellhofer, who is also after the Night Falcon and clearly a guy you don't want to mess with. (As a side note, it might be possible to "break" the plot on Normal difficulty, which, IIRC, doesn't have a killing restriction: There is a nobleman in the mansion who is identified in Christine's own walkthrough as Lord Wellhofer himself, and the campaign plot assumes that he remains alive, even if the player kills him during this mission.)

    The Hammerite Monastery: The search for more clues takes you to a Hammerite monastery. There is a short city section leading up to it, but the majority of the mission takes place indoors. There is also some interesting new wildlife roaming outside the monastery, such as the first modified version of a burrick (there's another type later in the series). One thing I was a little disappointed with is that the creatures and the Hammerites have not been made hostile towards each other, despite some readables expressing the Hammerites' concern about these beasts, so instead of provoking the burricks to attack the Hammerite guards, I only managed to make them team up in an effort to find ME.

    Overall, however, the gameplay is quite fun, especially if you're into Hammerite-themed missions. There is also a small undead section with some pretty nasty new undead enemies that will almost certainly force you to do some ghosting, but fortunately this isn't too difficult and this part of the mission is not very long.

    The Cathedral: This mission also has a Hammerite theme, which is why this mission and the last one tend to get mixed up in my mind. Again, there is a short city section before you enter the cathedral, but most of the action takes place indoors.

    The cathedral looks nice, although there are lots of marble floors here that ghosters may find frustrating. Again, there is also a small section with undead, although this time, it's populated by just plain ol' zombies.

    Perhaps my only complaint about this mission is that it's so similar to Hammerite Monastery; given the looseness of the plot, it might have been a good idea to change the order of the missions and not have these two come right after one another.

    The Mysterious Tower: Though the name of this mission conjures up images of exploration/ruins type of action, The Mysterious Tower is actually a city mission not unlike Shopping Walk, though a Hammerite temple once again plays a pretty important part.

    There's lots of traditional Thiefy action here once again - breaking into houses, splashing about in the sewers and even a little brush with the undead. A very enjoyable mission overall. (Again as a minor note, there was one guard patrolling outside the temple in this mission who must have been a psychic: A couple of times, he spotted me from about 50-100 meters away with his back towards me, and another time, he spotted me through the temple's closed door. He didn't simply become alerted, he actually saw me and came rushing towards me from outside like a homing missile. I'm pretty sure this has to be a bug.)

    Christmas Presents: Christmas Presents is another city - or actually town - mission. It takes place just before Christmas (they celebrate Christmas in the Thiefverse? ), and the setting is appropriately wintery, with falling snowflakes.

    In terms of plot, this mission is again of the "break into houses and steal stuff" variety, but what I really liked about this mission is the atmosphere: The town is fairly loosely designed with broad streets, open areas and small buildings, giving it a much more rustic feel compared to the City with its narrow streets and tall buildings. Together with the snow outside and the delicious-looking cakes and other food inside, it manages to convey a pretty relaxed feel of an approaching Christmas. I suppose you could call that the calm before the storm.

    The Brotherhood of The Falcon: At last, you've gathered everything you need to get the legendary Night Falcon. The mission begins just outside the town seen in Christmas Presents, under the same snowy conditions. First, you need to make your way to the ruins where the Falcon is kept; on the way, you will encounter another new variant of burrick - I suppose you could call it a snow burrick (although I do wonder how reptiles like burricks can survive in the cold).

    As you probably guessed, inside the ruins you will encounter some undead, and for me, this ended up being a ghosting mission: Although you will have some heavy weaponry available to you, taking out the undead seemed like more trouble than it was worth, especially since solitary enemies were almost nonexistent and attacking one AI was almost guaranteed to alert others. Fortunately, the difficulty wasn't too bad, even for a non-ghoster like me.

    As I'm not a huge fan of undead missions, this wasn't my favorite in the campaign, but it is quite atmospheric and has an appropriately eerie feel throughout, both indoors and outdoors. Finally getting your hands on the item you've been hearing about for so long at the end of this mission definitely feels like an achievement!


    So to sum things up, despite some of the minor criticisms I gave earlier, The Night Falcon is a highly enjoyable experience to anyone who likes classic Thief gameplay (and who doesn't?). If you haven't played it yet, you definitely owe it to yourself to remedy this as soon as possible. And what's more, the story doesn't end here: There is a two-mission sequel called Curse of The Falcon, which picks up from where this campaign ended. More about that later, perhaps...
    Last edited by Jah; 28th Nov 2009 at 10:50.

  14. #1514
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    I agree with SneakyJack that especially melee combat and AI reacting lightning fast are just too damn hard
    Yes, I agree with both of those points. I've actually made a suggestion on how we might reduce the reaction time of AI, but we're still discussing it--it's actually trickier than it might seem.

    I was just trying to give some feedback for a mod that is still in beta.
    I appreciate it. Like I said, I agree with most of what you said. And I quite enjoyed your review.

  15. #1515
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiatus View Post
    I agree with SneakyJack that especially melee combat and AI reacting lightning fast are just too damn hard for normal (not novice! Been playing Thief for 10 years now) players at the moment. Blackjacking should be made a bit easier, too (bigger range, possible forward blackjacking with forward-leaning etc). I agree adding "thud moment" animation would be nice. Also, AI reaction to player running behind them should be slower/lower (or made an option), to give us a chance to blackjack.

    @Springheel: I think 2 sides (mod developers and players who just got their hands on TDM) need to understand each other and this thing: as mod developer working on it for ~5 years probably you're bound to know it intimately and got all that numerical "behind-the-scenes" knowledge on various AI/hit etc settings (plus lots of practice) making the game pracically too easy for you. It's normal and natural. But it's also normal and please understand new players who just started dabbling with the mod, that the don't have all this behind-the-scenes knowledge on internal mod workings (how various things are set up) AND practice, making things too HARD/frustrating at the moment. In 5 years time, we'll probably find the mod almost as easy as it is for you now. Anyway, we shouldn't be almost forced to revert to using cheats if we don't need them in any Thief/System Shock/DeusEx games.

    IMO good compromise would be adding as many difficulty sliders as possible (with at least 5 different options - from very easy to very hard - or just linear scaling) for such things like:

    - lockpicking (already there)
    - melee combat difficulty
    - AI reaction times to player's actions/sensitivity to players footsteps sounds
    - blackjacking difficulty/range
    I couldn't possibly agree more!

    Quote Originally Posted by Springheel View Post
    I appreciate it. Like I said, I agree with most of what you said. And I quite enjoyed your review.
    I'm glad you enjoyed the review - regardless of it still being in need of a little tweaking I'm completely excited about the possibilities for The Dark Mod and will be eagerly awaiting future versions and missions.

    Thank you for your contribution so far on The Night Falcon series Jah - I look forward to your thoughts on the individual missions!

  16. #1516
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Nice to see you workin' on some reviews, Jah. Looking forward to the full version, though think I won't read them, as I'd like to experience at least a bit of the campaign myself before.

    It's a little disturbing, but nice to see TDM being reviewed too. And all of them have been reviewed! I'm lookong with doubt, whether that'll ever happen with all T1, T2 and T3 FMs, though... Were only ordinary man. Can we really do this? Plus, let's face it, some FMs just kind of, well, suck. Let's face it. It is still showing love for Thief and all, but some FMs are just very small or lacking. Maybe I'll combine them in 10fold reviews, like Teh Mike did. Time'll tell. I'll probably die before then.

  17. #1517
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    I'm glad you enjoyed the review
    Wow, actually I had only read the overview--I totally missed the individual reviews of each mission, which I just discovered. Very thorough and well written! I'll link to them from our forums, as I suspect a lot of people there (like me) don't know about them.
    Last edited by Springheel; 27th Nov 2009 at 14:44.

  18. #1518
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Springheel View Post
    Wow, actually I had only read the overview--I totally missed the individual reviews of each mission, which I just discovered. Very thorough and well written! I'll link to them from our forums, as I suspect a lot of people there (like me) don't know about them.
    Thanks! I'll be reviewing each mission in this thread as its released - and I'll be updating the main index of this thread with a listing for Dark Mod missions as well.

  19. #1519
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Over 1,500 posts....over 100,000 views. SJ, what about rereviewing/reposting the review it all started with? It's shouldn't be missing in this thread!

    After all those reviews of you, your view of Heist Society might be different, and you might speak of things you haven't spoken of before.

  20. #1520
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoGuy View Post
    Over 1,500 posts....over 100,000 views. SJ, what about rereviewing/reposting the review it all started with? It's shouldn't be missing in this thread!

    After all those reviews of you, your view of Heist Society might be different, and you might speak of things you haven't spoken of before.
    Thats a great idea and definitely something I will do - but I've got so much stuff I'm working on to post already on the way that it'll have to take a place in line

  21. #1521
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: UK
    Here's a new review from me, but it's a very short one. I didn't have a lot to really say about it and decided to just get straight to the point rather than drag it out unnecessarily. Usually if I do, I'll just edit them in later.

    The Hand of Glory

  22. #1522
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by SneakyJack View Post
    Bane 1: Keep Of Deceit by TheImmortalThief

    This mission really surprised me with how much gameplay goodness it packed into some relatively small areas. Lots of sneaking and a few bits of thieves highway rooftop jumping to be had - and overall this mission is alot of fun.
    I'm playing it at the moment, before I go on to play Bane 2.

    It is indeed loads of fun. In places the architecture isn't great, but personally I think the composition is so charming and well thought out that it more than makes up for it. I love unknowingly backtracking and then realising that I'd obviously made my own choice of route earlier.

    I'm also playing Eclipsed, but everyone knows about that one, right?

  23. #1523
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor02 View Post
    Nice to see you workin' on some reviews, Jah. Looking forward to the full version, though think I won't read them, as I'd like to experience at least a bit of the campaign myself before.
    Thanks, Thor. If you haven't played The Night Falcon yet, it should definitely go to or near the top of your to-do list of FM's. A seven-mission campaign of good old classic Thief - definitely not too many of those around!

    I updated my review on the previous page with comments on the individual missions - seemed more sensible to put everything in the same place rather than make a separate post.

  24. #1524
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Jah View Post
    Thanks, Thor. If you haven't played The Night Falcon yet, it should definitely go to or near the top of your to-do list of FM's. A seven-mission campaign of good old classic Thief - definitely not too many of those around!

    I updated my review on the previous page with comments on the individual missions - seemed more sensible to put everything in the same place rather than make a separate post.
    Nicely done and a great read, Jah. Have you continued on playing "Curse Of The Falcon" - which I believe is the two mission follow up?

  25. #1525
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by SneakyJack View Post
    Nicely done and a great read, Jah. Have you continued on playing "Curse Of The Falcon" - which I believe is the two mission follow up?
    I finished Curse of The Falcon last night, so here goes:


    Curse of The Falcon by Christine


    Curse of The Falcon is a two-mission sequel to The Night Falcon, which picks up where the story left off. After going through all that trouble to get the Night Falcon, Garrett finds out that the damned thing is cursed, and that something terrible is going to happen to him if he can't remove the curse. The only way to do that is to take the Falcon back to the ruined city of Mereska, where it originally came from, and cleanse it in the holy flame of their temple.

    It turns out that to get to Mereska, Garrett needs three more magic stones (in addition to the ones he used to get the Falcon in the first place) to open up a portal. These stones were recently discovered during a construction project and sold to a local antiques dealer. So before Garrett can get to Mereska, he needs to obtain the portal stones - and some loot to buy equipment, of course.


    Snow Flurry

    The first mission, Snow Flurry, takes place in the winter in a small town not unlike the one seen in the Christmas Presents mission of The Night Falcon. The gameplay is very similar - sneaking down snowy streets, breaking into buildings and looting. Again, the buildings in this town are low, and the action takes place at ground level with little or no rope arrowing involved. I didn't find this mission quite as atmospheric as Christmas Presents, but it's a quite solid city/town mission nevertheless.

    Mereska, City of The Flames

    Mereska is a exploration-style mission that very strongly resembles The Lost City, because... well, it takes place in a lost city. The architecture is very similar in style, all the way to those annoying motion-sensitive lights. The overall atmosphere is considerably darker, however, mainly due to the enemies you will encounter - including a new type of enemy that could be characterized as Mature-rated. I had bad memories of trying to deal violently with the enemies from my first playthrough, so this time, I didn't bother and just ghosted my way through. Compared to The Lost City, the map design here is a lot more linear, but as a non-ghoster, I actually found this to be a positive thing, as I wasn't really looking forward to having to sneak past the same enemies multiple times. I was worried until near the very end that I would fall short of the loot requirement and would have to turn back because of that, but luckily, that didn't happen.

    Since I'm not a particularly big fan of ghosting or non-human enemies, this wasn't quite my type of mission, but that being said, I still found it entertaining and didn't really have time to get frustrated, so I'm sure that fans of exploration missions will get much more out of it.


    As a two-mission pack, Curse of The Falcon may not be quite as epic as The Night Falcon, but both missions are of the same solid quality one can expect from Christine and definitely worth playing, especially if you've completed The Night Falcon.

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