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Thread: PS2 models

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Finger paintings of the insane

    PS2 models

    Has anyone made a mod that upgrades the PC game's models to the ones from Deus Ex:The Conspiracy on PS2?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    No. Sorry.

    Perhaps you would be interested in HDTP? The first release is out, and there'll be another release..sometime.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I'd be more interested in the motions, which seem to have been improved... at least, the 'falling down' motion looks much more detailed than the standard "fall over like a tree" motion in the PC version, even if it seems to play much too slowly.

    Still, I was put off the PS2 version after watching the ending cutscenes on YouTube. Sure, they look fancy (and I like the way J.C.'s coat and collar move), but they managed to completely ruin them by breaking the pacing and taking out the excellent music.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by DDL View Post
    No. Sorry.

    Perhaps you would be interested in HDTP?
    No. Sorry.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by van HellSing View Post
    No. Sorry.
    The dilemma of graphics overhaul modders everywhere.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    HDTP is in my own personal unholy trinity of the most... curious model overhauls, mostly for NotGunther and Maggie Chimp.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Weapons with visible weapon mods!

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    What I meant was that no matter how hard you try to build faithful remakes, there will always be some people who don't like them for one reason or another; perhaps you've strayed too far from the original, or not far enough, or added detail where there shouldn't be detail (or should be different detail), or...

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    God, believe me, we know that.

    Time permitting, we're hoping to make it 'customisable', so you can only use the stuff you actually want. Whether I can be arsed to get it down to the 'use the new darts but not the new pepper cartridges' level, I doubt..but 'characters yes/no, items yes/no, decorations yes/no' should be plausible.

    If that helps.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Hey, I like the new character models!

    But HDTP is onto a good thing with being so closed, it gives people less chance to complain!

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    Location: Vashon
    Anybody play the PS2 version? The controls are beyond awful, all the codes are auto-managed, and the areas were hacked into small spaces because of the tiny PS2 memory. Sure, the characters look better, but that's about it.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: south wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Anybody play the PS2 version? The controls are beyond awful, all the codes are auto-managed, and the areas were hacked into small spaces because of the tiny PS2 memory. Sure, the characters look better, but that's about it.
    I did

    I don't know if it was just my lack of console skills or (more likely) due to the crapness of the Dualshock, but JC kept veering off to the right which led to an unfortunate amount of falling off ladders & dying. The levels were hacked to bits in stupid ways and were so small the sniper rifle was a bit pointless, and the skill system was also pointless if you had auto-aim on but the game was unplayable if you didn't

    I also hated the cutscenes at the end, especially the Helios ending which reminds me of when you die in System Shock - 'As a cyborg, you will serve SHODAN well' - and freaked me out the first time I saw it.

    On the plus side, it is Deus Ex, the opening cutscene was fine and it did help me discover the joys of knocking people out with the baton instead of using tranq darts or the sniper rifle on everyone.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: England
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    But HDTP is onto a good thing with being so closed, it gives people less chance to complain!
    If they don't want constructive feedback, yes. Ignoring the gunther doesn't look like gunther and other character models, the logo on the unatco helmet has been greatly changed from what I could see on the forums, so much so that it is a completely different colour and just looks "odd".
    Their justification of this was that it looked "too communist"
    And then there's that the person making said models makes them all in a strange unnatural way so that every character looks like they are made from plastic and wearing hideous amounts of make-up - yes including male ones.

    Other character modellers are better but some of the models still look a bit odd.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    No, I mean if they ever want to finish it.
    Nothing's stopping you (or anyone else unhappy with the models) from making 'better' ones. The people who made those models are no longer working on the project, so they can't listen to your opinions anyway.

    You'll have the option of whether or not to use the character models when you install it.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: England
    Yes I'm well aware of that.

    I assumed they were just trying to update the models but hey whatever. Sadly I do not know how to model and if I couldn't do it to a standard I was happy with I wouldn't anyway.
    But your point about that is pretty deflective - you are basically saying no one should provide any form of constructive criticism, instead they should just be told to "do a better job themselves".

    Surely for a asset enhancement pack like this, the goal is to stick close to the original and also improve it, sticking the the game's design aesthetics.

    For more than one person to create the same models is just a waste of resources too - others could spend their time better creating original content.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Knott View Post
    I assumed they were just trying to update the models but hey whatever.
    No offense, but the original models were so basic that 'updating' them leaves a hell of a lot of space that needs to be filled with personal interpretation.

    Seriously: JC Denton, Walton Simons, Gary Savage, Gordon Quick, Ford Schick, Jock, even Joseph fucking Manderly...all used the exact same model. Different textures, sure, but all GM_Trench.

    With higher detail models it's impossible to make a base mesh so generic that it can be used by that many different characters, purely via texture shifts.

    So it's tricky, see.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The point I was trying to make is that I like the models*, and I'm sure a lot of others do too. They're a big improvement over the originals.

    So, should they throw out these models, which people like, and spend a long time making new models (delaying the entire project) to make ones closer to what you (and others) think they should look like? At the cost that the people who like the current HDTP models might not like these newer replacements?

    I'm sure that the HDTP team would be willing to make minor modifications (mainly just texture work at this point, otherwise it would involve redoing all the animations) to the models if you can name something specific that's wrong with them and which could be easily fixed.

    In case others don't know what we're talking about, two images from the HDTP characters. They're both still WIPs as far as I know, though, so take with a grain of salt:
    Paul Denton | Walton Simons


    * With the possible exception of that out-of-place 'window' in Anna Navarre's new outfit, though I guess I'd have to see how silly it looks ingame.


    DDL's point is also very valid: it's hard to make a detailed update for a model that is so indistinct as to have no detail without having to put some of your own vision into it. I had that problem a few times when I was working on the Thief Enhancement Pack. The result? Some people made a fuss and hated my take on the models, while others liked them. If I had tried to remake them until everyone was happy, I'd probably never have released the thing.

    Edit: I don't have side-by-side shots of HDTP handy, buy I do have some examples from my Thief EP to illustrate what I mean about vague objects: Goblet | Flash bomb | Lost City Tapestry
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 17th Jan 2009 at 11:59.

  18. #18
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    The point I was trying to make is that I like the models*
    Even the updated Maggie Chow?

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Eh, don't remind me of that stupid thread...

    But the final model looks quite fitting with the original character to me, apart from the serious overuse of bloom in the screenshots (which, luckily, Deus Ex does not support).


  20. #20
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    I actually don't have any issue with the updated mesh. But Maggie Chow (retired actress, femme fatale, seductress of Dentons, etc.) is supposed to be an attractive woman. And the face they put on there is not that of an attractive woman. She looks more like the old lady at the Lucky Money who tries to rent you a girlfriend. A GIS for "hong kong actress" turns up all manner of superior source material.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    That's true, there's something wrong with that face, though it's hard to put my finger on exactly what could be done to improve it. It might just be the texture?
    I do like that they made her look more Asian, though. Some of the GIS results for "hong kong actress" look far too western.

    I'd argue that the original model wasn't particularly attractive either.

  22. #22
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Some of the GIS results for "hong kong actress" look far too western.
    How do you mean? I get nothing but asian-looking women for at least the first five pages of results. And Hong Kong itself is a fairly western nation, for obvious historical reasons.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Well, this one, for example. Of course the original Maggie Chow model looks somewhat western because it just used the same generic head as everyone else.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: England
    Sorry I meant to reply yesterday but the forum was kaputt between writing it and posting.

    Ah yes I didn't mean you have to use the same model for each character, more I meant that you keep the models in the style of the older ones. Obviously you would use the original textures to give you more information on detail that is only part of the texture, not model, yes.

    I mainly meant keeping the character and art style the same.

    This is just looks like there's a lot of make-up or something going on there and looks very unnatural a bit odd.

    This is a lot better in terms of style however the whole texture has much too shiny highlights. Then you get on to looking at the skin and that is way way way too shiny. Also, the skin itself is the wrong colour - compare it to this, also for the shininess. Skin is rarely that pinkish/reddish colour and is instead more of a peach colour, as it was in the original. Facial expression looks a little odd but from reading the topic that was worked on to fix it. Is on the XII should have serifs but yer it all depends on how far this project is meant to be the same as the original so small details like that are up to you.

    I guess I was expecting the same kind of ethos as the the ss2 texture upgrade project. Is yours between this and artistic freedom? Or have I got the wrong idea?

    Maybe looking at the ps2 models would be a help 2? Not that I've seen them myself.

    Keeping close to the old designs doesn't mean that there isn't a lot you can do - a lot of the detail in the original game is texture-implied. I do understand that sometimes textures are so small it can be hard to work out what they were trying to represent.

    Good luck with it all though

    And yes I liked how they made the new maggie chow look more asian too, I thought that was a good touch.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    From what I understand, Alex admitted to using way too much bloom in his screenshots because he thought it looked nice. (Personally I've grown to dislike bloom, especially after Oblivion.)

    When you say "you", it's not clear if you're talking to me or DLL, since you're answering points from both of our posts. In case it was me, I'll just add that I'm not involved in HDTP, I just read their forum.

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