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Thread: The petition for Thief 1&2 source publication

  1. #526
    I have a feeling we'll get a release on XBLA or something(other app stores, phones etc) at best - everyone is cashing in on old code now, I cant see them skipping that and the super easy interest into T4 it would create. Have a feeling this is what they're waiting to announce, it wouldn't take more than a week to decide on source... but it does take quiet a while to port old code, get marketing material sorted and ready the press releases

    re : id releasing source, they also had quite a bit of trouble with the doom/2 releases on various platforms by other people using their content and just porting the code (and making some good money, considering it's a best seller now). It's not without trouble if you want to release on these new app stores.

    But hey, even that would be pretty nice.

  2. #527
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Prague
    Actually I think this does not create a conflict. Take for example ScummVM - it is itself used commercially this way and still is an open source application. Releasing the source code could help them much more - the internal programmer team would likely just do a maintenance work on the code - open source community could do much more.

  3. #528
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Prague
    MoroseTroll: Any change? Are the Higher-Ups still thinking? Sweeping the thing under the carpet? I do not have much time the last few months so sorry if I overlooked something

  4. #529
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Volca View Post
    MoroseTroll: Any change? Are the Higher-Ups still thinking? Sweeping the thing under the carpet? I do not have much time the last few months so sorry if I overlooked something
    Last I heard was that it had to be run by the legal department...or some such thing. Apparently Eidos was supposed to have had a meeting about it, but that's all I've heard. I'm pretty sure everyone knows what's going on by now anyway. Source code was found in the possession of a former LGS developer, source code was then handed to Eidos for deliberation. This was....how long ago now, and still nothing?

  5. #530
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    This was at the beginning of February.

  6. #531
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroseTroll View Post
    This was at the beginning of February.
    Long enough for them to lose it again.

  7. #532
    ..okay,let me get this straight-are you trying to say that somewhere,someone is sitting on the dark engine source code,scratching his head for the last half year or so,'cause he has no idea what to do with it (or,rather,what is he allowed to do with it)?

  8. #533
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    ..okay,let me get this straight-are you trying to say that somewhere,someone is sitting on the dark engine source code,scratching his head for the last half year or so,'cause he has no idea what to do with it (or,rather,what is he allowed to do with it)?
    Not a 'he', but rather Eidos. I guess they're trying to figure out whether or not there are any legal issues with releasing it. Yadda yadda.

    Here is my understanding.

    Community member tracks down some former LGS developers. One of these developers finds that they have the source code backed up. The code is then handed over to Eidos....which brings us to present day....still nothing.

  9. #534
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: ...retired.
    Hopefully that developer had the sense to make another "backup", least the code be lost forever.

  10. #535
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    Community member tracks down some former LGS developers. One of these developers finds that they have the source code backed up. The code is then handed over to Eidos....which brings us to present day....still nothing.
    Wow, last time I checked this thread it was still presumed lost forever. This is a big step up.

  11. #536
    as long as the source exists,there is always a chance it will end up on torrents or rs somehow.I (we) have waited so long for this,what is another year (or five)?

  12. #537
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    as long as the source exists,there is always a chance it will end up on torrents or rs somehow.I (we) have waited so long for this,what is another year (or five)?
    Too many years?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaxa View Post
    Wow, last time I checked this thread it was still presumed lost forever. This is a big step up.
    The existence of the source has been coyly hinted at for the past few months, but the waiting is getting a bit absurd at this point.

    I and other community members had approached Eidos several times over the years to ask them to try and locate the source code for release. During my own attempts, I was either told 'it is lost' or the contact person would just stop responding to my PM's. What amuses me most about this situation, is that it pretty much establishes that they didn't put a hell of a lot of effort into finding it. If Eidos can't locate former employess of LGS with all the resources available to them, and a community member not only finds former employees but also locates the source code...it doesn't say much to me about their sincerity when the people I asked to help us would say, "Oh yes, we are going to look into that".

    Which probably amounted to, "Hey Bob, what do you know about the Thief source code?". "It's lost.". "Oh, good enough!"....*whistles and walks away*

  13. #538
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    Location: Los Angeles, 2019
    Who said what now? That's just an example, right, NH?

    Community member tracks down some former LGS developers. One of these developers finds that they have the source code backed up. The code is then handed over to Eidos....which brings us to present day....still nothing.

  14. #539
    Well I don't know about anybody else, but I sure would be a lot more likely to buy Thief 4 if the sources to T1 and T2 are released. I've pretty much given up all hope that this will ever happen though.

  15. #540
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    Who said what now? That's just an example, right, NH?
    You didn't read my previous post, did you. No, that's not an example...the fate of the source code is being deliberated on, the last I heard, by the Eidos legal department. We must simply wait.

    Surely you picked up at what Morose Troll had been hinting at, didn't you?

    I'm tired of waiting.

  16. #541
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: UK
    I'm tired of waiting too, but I guess we wait.

    An added complication, which may be why the lawyers are mulling it over, is that the Dark engine is used in Thief & Thief II (owned by Eidos) and System Shock 2 (owned by EA). So there may well be some serious checking with EA before they release Dark's source code that EA won't be too upset. I know ID licensed the Quake III engine for other companies, but Eidos may not have a totally clear contract with them.

    If it gets past the laywers, then it may take a few days for someone to strip the assets out before it is released (presumably this will have to be done by someone in their own time, hence the delay)

  17. #542
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian The Dog View Post
    I'm tired of waiting too, but I guess we wait.

    An added complication, which may be why the lawyers are mulling it over, is that the Dark engine is used in Thief & Thief II (owned by Eidos) and System Shock 2 (owned by EA). So there may well be some serious checking with EA before they release Dark's source code that EA won't be too upset.
    The former LGS developer who had the source code was aware of this and also offered to remove the SS2 code if it was a legal problem.

  18. #543
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian The Dog View Post
    So there may well be some serious checking with EA before they release Dark's source code that EA won't be too upset
    You will have do your best to upset EA - just try to find SS2 in its database, and you will fail. IMHO, EA has forgotten SS2 at all. So, I just don't understand why Eidos is still waiting with a Dark Engine source publication...
    Last edited by MoroseTroll; 12th Oct 2010 at 02:54.

  19. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    I and other community members had approached Eidos several times over the years to ask them to try and locate the source code for release. During my own attempts, I was either told 'it is lost' or the contact person would just stop responding to my PM's. What amuses me most about this situation, is that it pretty much establishes that they didn't put a hell of a lot of effort into finding it. If Eidos can't locate former employess of LGS with all the resources available to them, and a community member not only finds former employees but also locates the source code...it doesn't say much to me about their sincerity when the people I asked to help us would say, "Oh yes, we are going to look into that".

    Which probably amounted to, "Hey Bob, what do you know about the Thief source code?". "It's lost.". "Oh, good enough!"....*whistles and walks away*
    Well, what else did you expect? Considering that finding and releasing the source code would be just a service to the community that isn't going to earn Eidos a single cent, it doesn't surprise me at all that they're not going to go out of their way to do it.

  20. #545
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    Jah: There is one thing which every developer and publisher should sustain - its reputation. A releasing of source of some old but popular game is a nice gesture to sustain the reputation. Some developers and publishers do that: id (it's a champion - John Carmack have released this August RtCW (2001) and RtCW:ET (2003)), Raven, Volition, Rebellion, even 3D Realms. Once upon a time Eidos already did that, so why don't to do that once again?

  21. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroseTroll View Post
    Jah: There is one thing which every developer and publisher should sustain - its reputation. A releasing of source of some old but popular game is a nice gesture to sustain the reputation. Some developers and publishers do that: id (it's a champion - John Carmack have released this August RtCW (2001) and RtCW:ET (2003)), Raven, Volition, Rebellion, even 3D Realms. Once upon a time Eidos already did that, so why don't to do that once again?
    The only companies that do that are the ones owned by their developers, which share those values. There's no legal issues in releasing the source code unless proprietary 3rd code is used, and that can be removed, also EA has no legal standing to force the code proprietary. These are just excuses, if you don't get a reply back within a fortnight they're not interested.

    And to the former LGS employee: why the hell didn't you just release anonymously!

  22. #547
    I'm guessing that in those cases, they had the source code already and didn't have to start hunting former employees of another company to find it.

  23. #548
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia

  24. #549
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: UK
    Quote Originally Posted by MoroseTroll View Post
    IMHO, EA has forgotten SS2 at all. So, I just don't understand why Eidos is still waiting with a Dark Engine source publication...
    EA most definitely hasn't forgotten about SS2 - Bioshock is its spiritual successor, and it's the most requested game on Good Old Games with >13000 requests.

  25. #550
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. hermit View Post
    And to the former LGS employee: why the hell didn't you just release anonymously!
    Just think about it: who wants a problem? If that former LGS employee will release the source anonymously, sooner or later Eidos' lawers will recognize him and sue against him. Morethen, Eidos can state something like this: "Everyone, who is using the unofficially released source, will be sued." How about this?

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