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Thread: The petition for Thief 1&2 source publication

  1. #601
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    ok, *that* was stupid.

    Normally yes, I just let all the mangled English around here slide... but "costed" is something that a child would say!

  2. #602
    aren't we all (children),at heart?

    btw: http://kotaku.com/5663486/duke-nukem...kes-developers

    this is what we need to do right now-get the news about the source code into some recognized internet media,coupled with a bunch of hires pictures of dark engine games with hdr,bloom,upgraded models,textures,dynamic skies,reflective water etc,with a comment hey you like this? with the source code out,we could do much,much more..as I said,the gaming world needs to know about this,and eidos needs to know that they will generate a lot of positive karma if they release the code..and they need to know they will get a ton of negative publicity if they don't.


    so,to anyone reading this,if you have friends in some local internet media,tell them about this,and ask them to make it public,I bet they won't mind..allow me to use the link Volca provided on the previous page as an example:

    http://www.diit.cz/clanek/petice-za-...m-shock/37166/

    we need more of these.MORE.internet is a powerful tool,all you need to do is use it properly..

  3. #603
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: UK
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    hey gaming world,the sources for 3 legendary games have been found
    We don't know that though - considering how hard it was for us/them to find any of the source codes, it's most likely they've only got one of them. Dark is sightly different for the 3 games, so taking the SS2 version and making it into the T1 version will require some jiggery-pokery (not to mention the permission of EA, which comes back to lawyers again)

  4. #604
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2022335

    If I understand correctly,that means the source code is complete (thief1/2,system shock2).and even if not,its still great news,and still something worth fighting for.

  5. #605
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: UK
    Well, it means that the SS2 code has been discovered and a dev is willing to turn the engine into the T1 & T2 engines by stripping out the extra bits that were added. Which I agree is good news, but does require EA's permission before the person can do it.

  6. #606
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian The Dog View Post
    Well, it means that the SS2 code has been discovered and a dev is willing to turn the engine into the T1 & T2 engines by stripping out the extra bits that were added. Which I agree is good news, but does require EA's permission before the person can do it.
    I don't believe that is true. The full T1, T2 code has been discovered...but the last version of Dark Engine...Thief 2, has some SS2 code in it. The developer offered to remove the SS2 code...there is no 'converting' of code into a Thief version...it IS the Thief version. It's probably multiplayer code or something. What I'm not certain of is whether or not the actual SS2 build of the engine is in this discovery...if it was, they couldn't release that build...only the T1 and T2 builds.

  7. #607
    I'm wondering what 'form' this source code has been stored in.

    Is it a VisualSourcesafe or CSV database or is it zipped-up? Does it include the project files which tell us which compiler options were used or just the C++ source code? Are there special tools which we'd need to compile some parts?
    The Honest Thief - FMs, screenshots, DromED, links

    Zaccheus' hospital blog

  8. #608
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by *Zaccheus* View Post
    I'm wondering what 'form' this source code has been stored in.

    Is it a VisualSourcesafe or CSV database or is it zipped-up? Does it include the project files which tell us which compiler options were used or just the C++ source code? Are there special tools which we'd need to compile some parts?
    That is something I haven't heard anything about...but hopefully everything is in good running order.

  9. #609
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: UK
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    I don't believe that is true. The full T1, T2 code has been discovered...but the last version of Dark Engine...Thief 2, has some SS2 code in it. The developer offered to remove the SS2 code...there is no 'converting' of code into a Thief version...it IS the Thief version. It's probably multiplayer code or something. What I'm not certain of is whether or not the actual SS2 build of the engine is in this discovery...if it was, they couldn't release that build...only the T1 and T2 builds.
    I see, thanks for clarifying as I had misunderstood your post. That is indeed good news.

  10. #610
    Question: Even if the code is released, it would still take a VERY long time to get a cross-platform version of the games, correct? I think the engine relies heavily on Windows components (Direct3D, DirectSound, etc). We're not talking about SiN or Hexen 2 here, which used OpenGL. Somebody would have to rewrite a lot of the Dark engine. It would probably be easier to just tweak the code to make it work better in WINE/Crossover.

  11. #611
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    I wouldn't say "VERY" long time before something is released. My understanding is that most of the engine is the logic that organizes all the components of the game. Sound and graphics rendering are two components among many many others. Volca probably has the best understanding of the engine of anyone alive though. Perhaps he could say how long it would take to strip out and replace DirectSound and Direct3D components.

    And...wow. After hastily reading through all the other replies, I can't believe that the source has actually surfaced, and that Eidos is currently just sitting on it. =( Can we start a letter writing campaign? Who could we send letters to that could get this done, and what information would we need to provide to help expedite the process (e.g. people who currently hold the code at Eidos)?

  12. #612
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm, but speaking from direct experience, any letters written to Eidos urging their corporate lawyers to expedite will have no effect whatsoever; they're going to take their time and disregard any pleas from the community to "hurry up". The lawyers at the company I work for are the biggest bottleneck we have when it comes to actually getting anything done.

  13. #613
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Location: Pennsylvania
    Re converting source to linux .... I would say that its probably not a simple thing to change over to say opengl.

    It all depends on the abstraction level of the code.

  14. #614
    Well there was the old story of Unreal. It had a plugin-architecture for renderers, allowing new ones to be written and used with the game. At first, glide was king in Unreal, then D3D pushed the visuals even further with 32-bit support. Then the OpenGL renderer got revamped by the community and kicked the D3D renderer's behind, offering HD textures and such. I wonder if you could just write a basic OpenGL renderer for Thief in this way.

  15. #615
    NewDark 64³ Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    So essentially what could be done with the source code that isn't done now:
    Change the inherent abilities of the AI?
    Increase map size complexity?
    Add what can be manipulated and used by the player?
    Eliminate all bugs in the code itself?
    Enhance the graphic capabilities of models and AI?

    I'm assuming all the above is possible and much more.

  16. #616
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    @Xorak
    Well, if you have enough time, you can do just about anything to any code. =P

    @Yandros
    What if it was a calligraphy letter campaign? I already have all the supplies. It'd be great to practice my calligraphy every day by writing a letter to some poor sap at Eidos.

  17. #617

  18. #618
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorak View Post
    So essentially what could be done with the source code that isn't done now:
    ...
    Eliminate all bugs in the code itself?
    Although I suppose that could be covered by the bugs point, but I think the biggest point is just making sure it runs nicely on latest Windows versions (without requiring third party "tricks") aswell a gfx compatibliity to natively solve those things that DDFix does etc.. Simply put, making sure that the game can run for years to come. All enhancements are just a bonus.

  19. #619
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Fortaleza, Ceará, Brasil
    The Open Dark Engine, by Volca, has a funcional implementation of the renderer via OGRE3D engine. This part will not be so hard. With full access to the Source Code many more will be possible.

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/opde/

  20. #620
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Oh dear Lord. I've been quoted on Blues News. I didn't see that coming. lol

  21. #621
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Prague
    Another czech site reporting about the petition...

  22. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Volca View Post
    Another czech site reporting about the petition...
    keep 'em coming.btw,anybody noticed that the petition has over 1500 signatures? that's 400+ signatures boost in the last two days..

  23. #623
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    I'd like to thank everybody who have signed this petition, including numerous Czech (and Slovak, I guess) taffers . Let's hope Eidos will hear our voices...

  24. #624
    Signed it.

    But wouldn't this be more effective if someone posted the contact info for Eidos' offices, and all the people who signed the petition would write a letter and an email to Eidos? I'm not sure how collecting votes alone will attract attention.

  25. #625
    I doubt that.they would just get annoyed and throw them out anyway.the best thing we (regular users) can do,is stir the waters as much as possible=inform as many people as we can,get this info on as many news sites as we can,and get as many petition signatures as we can.

    as I said,there is no guarantee it will help,but hey,it's still better than sitting down and doing nothing.

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